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On July 22 2011 15:25 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 15:22 bankai wrote:On July 22 2011 14:48 Anihc wrote:On July 22 2011 09:13 bankai wrote:
So on choke maps, if I use your suggested build, does that work against 14 pool or 15 hatch? If its 15 hatch, do I skip the 13 Forge you suggest, and go straight for 17 Nexus, then 17 Forge/Gate/Cannon?? Also when do you get your gas?? 15 nexus 15 forge works against 14 pool. On large 4 player maps go 13 forge in case of early pool. Against 15 hatch cannon rush ^^ But if you don't want to, you can go 17 nexus 17 pylon 18 gate 18/19 forge. Cool thanks! Can I ask as well when do you get your 2 assimilators for 15 nexus/15 forge (14pool) and 17nexus (hatch first)? Sorry, Im a bit of a numbers freak  I don't remember numbers. After gateway (assuming forge pylon cannon cannon gate), I keep up non stop probe production from both nexus, and my next 150 extra minerals goes to 2 gas. If I get suspicious of 1 base all in I only get 1 gas.
OK no problems, that sounds like a more flexible approach to remember. Do you just defend 1 base all-ins with just cannons/zealots on 1 gas?? What if they use banelings? Wont you need more gas for sentries or is it gonna be too late?
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In TvZ as terran what is the best way to engage infester ling when going marine tank.
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On July 22 2011 15:39 tainted muffin wrote:
In TvZ as terran what is the best way to engage infester ling when going marine tank.
Keep your marines close to your tanks. Effectively, the tanks are going to claim territory against infestors, while the infestors are there to punish mistakes and hasty play. When your opponent has infestors out, your slow pushes must be even slower because you must keep marines in about a range of 2-6 to nearby tanks, this will cause infestors to get shelled before the fungal goes off. This is a very defensive style that you need to take, never make a huge move to begin the battle, just leap-frog closer and close to the hatch (or whatever your target is). When the zerg player finally engages, you want to control your tanks and focus infestors with them, while, if at all possible, running stimmed marines to keep them out of infestor fungal range (fungal has a range of 7, so it's much more difficult then running against banes).
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On July 22 2011 15:07 bankai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 15:06 Soluhwin wrote:On July 22 2011 13:59 bankai wrote:Also, who is a good pro player that has a solid/safe/macro-oriented play in PvZ? Nothing too funky, just shows similar styles every game and wins with it The most solid PvZ I've ever seen (as a zerg player) is HuK's. Past that, San has shown some good play in the past but lacks consistency (in the GSL, at least), Kiwikaki also shows some late game prowess. Naniwa would also be an excellent player to learn from. Thanks, will check them out! Are there streams or websites I can go to to find replays for specific players?
Umm, I honestly don't know. I know HuK is a very frequent streamer on TL, and I think (but don't know for sure) I remember Kiwi doing it at some point but not frequently. Various replay sights should yield some results, which I've honestly never used because I mostly analyze my own games, and the few times I didn't I used replays from MLG, so I don't know what to tell you. Naturally, as a zerg, I'm going to keep track of zerg players more than protoss so sorry I couldn't help.
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HI i just seen the post about how fast Dt's can take down a hive and lair etc, and that was one of my questions my other question is for maps like shattered temple where if u cant get a pylon close and you are at cross positions does a cloaked DT when running through the middle and they have a unit on the watchtower will they lose vision slightly when ur cloaked unit runs through or will the unit keep vision need to know wether to run my DT around the watchtower??
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On July 22 2011 22:16 Tommylew wrote:
HI i just seen the post about how fast Dt's can take down a hive and lair etc, and that was one of my questions my other question is for maps like shattered temple where if u cant get a pylon close and you are at cross positions does a cloaked DT when running through the middle and they have a unit on the watchtower will they lose vision slightly when ur cloaked unit runs through or will the unit keep vision need to know wether to run my DT around the watchtower??
Their unit will only lose vision if you kill it or make it move. Just running your DT next to the unit there won't do anything. If you want to be extra safe though, just don't walk right next to it.
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On July 22 2011 23:31 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:16 Tommylew wrote:
HI i just seen the post about how fast Dt's can take down a hive and lair etc, and that was one of my questions my other question is for maps like shattered temple where if u cant get a pylon close and you are at cross positions does a cloaked DT when running through the middle and they have a unit on the watchtower will they lose vision slightly when ur cloaked unit runs through or will the unit keep vision need to know wether to run my DT around the watchtower??
Their unit will only lose vision if you kill it or make it move. Just running your DT next to the unit there won't do anything. If you want to be extra safe though, just don't walk right next to it.
I'm actually pretty sure their unit will lose vision. First of all I think I saw that myself in a game, and second of all, if you wouldnt lose vision, then the dt wouldnt be able to hold the watch tower, which is obviouly not true
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On July 22 2011 23:35 StoRm_res wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 23:31 galtdunn wrote:On July 22 2011 22:16 Tommylew wrote:
HI i just seen the post about how fast Dt's can take down a hive and lair etc, and that was one of my questions my other question is for maps like shattered temple where if u cant get a pylon close and you are at cross positions does a cloaked DT when running through the middle and they have a unit on the watchtower will they lose vision slightly when ur cloaked unit runs through or will the unit keep vision need to know wether to run my DT around the watchtower??
Their unit will only lose vision if you kill it or make it move. Just running your DT next to the unit there won't do anything. If you want to be extra safe though, just don't walk right next to it. I'm actually pretty sure their unit will lose vision. First of all I think I saw that myself in a game, and second of all, if you wouldnt lose vision, then the dt wouldnt be able to hold the watch tower, which is obviouly not true
But i think the way watchtowers work is that whatever unit that was originaly holding it keeps it powered until it dies or moves. DTs can obviously power them also, but not while an enemy unit is powering it, not without killing it. There aren't any units with priority on watchtower control.
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The tower would become contested and nobody would have vision until only one player's units are in its range.
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On July 22 2011 23:40 Ninja_Bread wrote:
The tower would become contested and nobody would have vision until only one team's units are in its range.
I'd rather write 'team', which goes for both 1v1 and XvX.
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As zerg, is there an 'optimum' fast pool to go for?
What I mean is, between 6pool, 7pool, 8pool, and 9pool (I guess 10pool might count too), is there one of these that's universally better than the others?
My intuition tells me 8pool is the best against protoss or terran, since it allows 2 drones + an overlord before the pool finishes, and still lets you make 6 zerglings when the pool is done. The few games I've seen a zerg rush, 8 pool is used (here's a ZvP where Nerchio 8pools White-Ra on Shakuras).
For ZvZ getting your zerglings out as fast as possible is the most important thing for a zergling rush so maybe 6pool or 7pool is better here?
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On July 23 2011 01:14 BlasiuS wrote:As zerg, is there an 'optimum' fast pool to go for? What I mean is, between 6pool, 7pool, 8pool, and 9pool (I guess 10pool might count too), is there one of these that's universally better than the others? My intuition tells me 8pool is the best against protoss or terran, since it allows 2 drones + an overlord before the pool finishes, and still lets you make 6 zerglings when the pool is done. The few games I've seen a zerg rush, 8 pool is used ( here's a ZvP where Nerchio 8pools White-Ra on Shakuras). For ZvZ getting your zerglings out as fast as possible is the most important thing for a zergling rush so maybe 6pool or 7pool is better here?
It pretty much just depends on how "all in" you want the attack to be, or whether you want to possibly transition out of it. All the builds can finish with pool building+enough supply for 6 lings. So it's just a matter of wanting to put it all on the line - 6 or 7 pool; or trying for some early cheese with a transition - 8, 9 or 10 pool. Anything over that is really just normal/defended easily.
Also, you might want to consider some fast speedling builds, I'm not sure what the exact Build Orders are, but there are some 11 gas/10 pool builds i think.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
I'm here to clear things up! I even brought evidence 
Contested towers do not display any extra vision, and units by a tower from opponents contests it.
On July 22 2011 23:37 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 23:35 StoRm_res wrote:On July 22 2011 23:31 galtdunn wrote:On July 22 2011 22:16 Tommylew wrote:
HI i just seen the post about how fast Dt's can take down a hive and lair etc, and that was one of my questions my other question is for maps like shattered temple where if u cant get a pylon close and you are at cross positions does a cloaked DT when running through the middle and they have a unit on the watchtower will they lose vision slightly when ur cloaked unit runs through or will the unit keep vision need to know wether to run my DT around the watchtower??
Their unit will only lose vision if you kill it or make it move. Just running your DT next to the unit there won't do anything. If you want to be extra safe though, just don't walk right next to it. I'm actually pretty sure their unit will lose vision. First of all I think I saw that myself in a game, and second of all, if you wouldnt lose vision, then the dt wouldnt be able to hold the watch tower, which is obviouly not true But i think the way watchtowers work is that whatever unit that was originaly holding it keeps it powered until it dies or moves. DTs can obviously power them also, but not while an enemy unit is powering it, not without killing it. There aren't any units with priority on watchtower control.
I disagree. I'm 100% sure that if there are two ground units in range, the tower remains unpowered for both teams, regardless as to which team got there first. I remember this from every game where you're having little worker fights on XNC near the towers, if you move your worker up to the tower, the tower becomes depowered
On July 22 2011 23:40 Ninja_Bread wrote:
The tower would become contested and nobody would have vision until only one player's units are in its range.
This is correct.
From the Liquipedia article on  Xel&s
Xel Naga Tower Article wrote:
When two enemy units are within activation range of a Xel'Naga Tower, it will deactivate.
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On July 23 2011 01:28 Blazinghand wrote:I'm here to clear things up! I even brought evidence Contested towers do not display any extra vision, and units by a tower from opponents contests it.Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 23:37 galtdunn wrote:On July 22 2011 23:35 StoRm_res wrote:On July 22 2011 23:31 galtdunn wrote:On July 22 2011 22:16 Tommylew wrote:
HI i just seen the post about how fast Dt's can take down a hive and lair etc, and that was one of my questions my other question is for maps like shattered temple where if u cant get a pylon close and you are at cross positions does a cloaked DT when running through the middle and they have a unit on the watchtower will they lose vision slightly when ur cloaked unit runs through or will the unit keep vision need to know wether to run my DT around the watchtower??
Their unit will only lose vision if you kill it or make it move. Just running your DT next to the unit there won't do anything. If you want to be extra safe though, just don't walk right next to it. I'm actually pretty sure their unit will lose vision. First of all I think I saw that myself in a game, and second of all, if you wouldnt lose vision, then the dt wouldnt be able to hold the watch tower, which is obviouly not true But i think the way watchtowers work is that whatever unit that was originaly holding it keeps it powered until it dies or moves. DTs can obviously power them also, but not while an enemy unit is powering it, not without killing it. There aren't any units with priority on watchtower control. I disagree. I'm 100% sure that if there are two ground units in range, the tower remains unpowered for both teams, regardless as to which team got there first. I remember this from every game where you're having little worker fights on XNC near the towers, if you move your worker up to the tower, the tower becomes depowered Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 23:40 Ninja_Bread wrote:
The tower would become contested and nobody would have vision until only one player's units are in its range. This is correct. From the Liquipedia article on Xel&s Show nested quote +Xel Naga Tower Article wrote:
When two enemy units are within activation range of a Xel'Naga Tower, it will deactivate.
Haha wan't even my post but thatnk you for clearing this up.
I searched liquidpedia by there was no article specifically on watchtowers 
someone should get on that.
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Does the korean 7 gate blink stalker plus 2 attack off of two base stand up to infestor ling?
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On July 23 2011 01:52 lazydino wrote:
Does the korean 7 gate blink stalker plus 2 attack off of two base stand up to infestor ling?
if you take the time to get the second attack upgrade, your opponent will inevitable have infestors, given that the match is even and his strategy was infestor/ling.
their unit composition is a hardcounter to yours, so no, unless you outplay your opponent heavily you will most certainly lose.
the question is very much like "is it possible to beat mass blue-flame hellion with mass zergling?"
yes, but it's ridicoulusly hard.
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Watching TLO stream, TvT and TLO uses unsieged tanks vs hellions, why is that? Wouldn't splash be better, and it's like around 8 hellion not just 3-4
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On July 23 2011 01:22 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 01:14 BlasiuS wrote:As zerg, is there an 'optimum' fast pool to go for? What I mean is, between 6pool, 7pool, 8pool, and 9pool (I guess 10pool might count too), is there one of these that's universally better than the others? My intuition tells me 8pool is the best against protoss or terran, since it allows 2 drones + an overlord before the pool finishes, and still lets you make 6 zerglings when the pool is done. The few games I've seen a zerg rush, 8 pool is used ( here's a ZvP where Nerchio 8pools White-Ra on Shakuras). For ZvZ getting your zerglings out as fast as possible is the most important thing for a zergling rush so maybe 6pool or 7pool is better here? It pretty much just depends on how "all in" you want the attack to be, or whether you want to possibly transition out of it. All the builds can finish with pool building+enough supply for 6 lings. So it's just a matter of wanting to put it all on the line - 6 or 7 pool; or trying for some early cheese with a transition - 8, 9 or 10 pool. Anything over that is really just normal/defended easily. Also, you might want to consider some fast speedling builds, I'm not sure what the exact Build Orders are, but there are some 11 gas/10 pool builds i think.
Top players who go for a fast pool almost never go completely allin. The best rush hits early enough to beat an opponent's timing (e.g. zerglings getting inside a Protoss players base before the first zealot finishes, or the first cannon finishes) while being as economic as possible.
I could test this, but I had just assumed there was already a consensus on it, and I just may have missed what it was.
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What is the standard transition after the 2 Rax Pressure FE (reactor on first rax construct another, push out with 1 marauder 5marines) if you know your opponent is not going a 4 gate/void ray build and are going the normal expand and building up a robo army or high templar such as
1. 3/4 Barracks Timing
2. Second Gas Timing
3. Factory Timing
4. Engineering Bay timing
(a link to a transition build would be fine)
What is the best way to scout to see if your opponent is going high templar or collusus. Is it a scan and if it is what time?
How many barracks + Starports are advised on 2 base vs a Protoss on two base with the standard colluses gateway army.
How many barracks + Starports (with ghosts) are advised on 3 base vs a Protoss on two base with the standard colluses high templar gateway army.
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On July 23 2011 02:06 taldarimAltar wrote:
Watching TLO stream, TvT and TLO uses unsieged tanks vs hellions, why is that? Wouldn't splash be better, and it's like around 8 hellion not just 3-4
Unsieged tanks have a faster attack, so they deal more single target damage than when sieged. I am trying to visualize this game and I imagine his rationale behind his decision is that the hellions could make sieged tanks splash eachother, and the splash would make little to no difference as they would still get cleaned up nicely. The fact that the tanks were unsieged could also be that he was planning to move out right after.
So without knowing the full situation it is hard to give an answer as we can't tell you why he does things, just somewhat informed guesses.
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EPT
