On July 15 2011 09:12 KnT wrote: Not sure if this has been asked yet (266 pages is a LOT); Do any upgrades affect the damage output of fungal growth? ie +missile or +melee
Or is it 36 (47 vs armoured) regardless?
Upgrades have no effect on fungal at all, that counts for both your own upgrades and the opponents upgrades, fungal ignores armor. The only way fungal damage changes is if the target is classed as an armored unit, +20% bonus damage
On July 15 2011 11:35 leafy wrote: As Zerg, what's the best way to maintain selection groups and hotkeys when producing new units, especially when reinforcing? Is it best to shift-add eggs to a group and then rally them, or set the rally point on the hatchery to where you're attacking, and then rapidly box and a-move?
I disagree with the first response. It is probably situational where we are both right however. Shift adding as soon as eggs are made is neat however you will have a stream of minor reinforcements coming across the map which can be picked off or misrallied. It would be best to update your rally points frequently via the hatchery and have them pool up at one spot then bring in a healthy wave of reinforcements instead of a few that can be destroyed.
I don't know, both ways are acceptable depending on the situation.
On July 15 2011 17:11 Destro wrote: whats the best way to drop banelings from overlords while having them spread? it seems like just dumping them all on one little spot seems like a bad idea.. any tricks?
If you hit D and left click the OL it will drop on the OL's location so you can shift click you overlord in any pattern you want.
This is correct.
The correct way to baneling drop is therefore to : 1) load up your overlords with banelings 2)wait for them to spread out a bit 3)issue a move command behind the army you want to kill (make sur to click outside the "magic box" so your overlords don't clump up) 4)D + shift click on your overlords when they are directly over the opponent's army
I'm obliged to link the standard video for this question:
And I encourage everyone to point to it so that this question is never asked in the thread again. ^_^
On July 15 2011 20:09 Fus wrote: Why is it called Code S and Code A? is there a reason or is it just the way it it? Why isn't code A higher than code S
Rank-S is the highest attainable rank in many video games and the GSL follows suit. This is a trend that likely originated in Japan as game developers (e.g., from the rhythm, shump genres) were looking for flashy ways to grow the standard A-B-C grading curve.
On July 15 2011 03:28 Torte de Lini wrote: How the fuck do I open ZvZ, I'm well-aware of Liquipedia's and Day 9's openings, but none of them seem to work. I used to open Ling-Baneling into Expand, but now it just gets crushed by either a counter-attack of more lings or he gets roaches out in time and then I'm sorta trapped trying to remain on top of his enlarging force (if I contain him until he has enough roaches, he just does a one-base push with roaches and destroys me since I went ling banelings and expanded, so my roach count will be immensely behind).
If I open with roaches, he just goes a lot of lings, waits for me to leave and slips through. If I try to expand with roaches, lings just either go around and into my main or attack my natural until I come out and then go around me.
If I open with speedlings, he goes ling baneling and pushes non-stop against my natural that I'm trying to get up and eventually destroys my army or takes down my natural.
Either way, I'm always behind, I can't expand before him or he traps me.
If you face something like a 9-pool or below, cancel the hatch to get the added minerals you'll need to defend. If you hold, you should be ahead. If you face any variant of the 14/14 (banelings, roaches, ling all-in, etc) you'll be able to hold *if* you react accordingly, and if your opponent goes 15 hatch you're both on relatively even ground.
Otherwise, it's all about timing and scouting. If you see he's going for a mass roach push, you need roaches of your own 95% of the time. And even if your opponent goes roaches while you're going ling bane, you still have a small window to deal damage if you were aggressive with your lings beforehand; his first roaches will be forced to fall back into his base to deal with morphing banes, letting you stream more lings in, etc.
If you scout a ton of lings and an expo, get a baneling nest ASAP if you don't already have one - even if you're going roaches. By leaving 2 banes at the top of your ramp when you move out, you're pretty safe against any kind of counter attack shenanigans.
Finally, if you're going for some kind of speedling play (speedling all-in, quick evo for +1, whatever) you are highly vulnerable to baneling play. I personally wouldn't suggest it. It can be useful, but it's just too weak to any kind of baneling play and eventual roach+bane counter attack.
Send me a message on Bnet, and I'll show you a few openings that I do regularly. ZvZ isn't as coin-flippy as people make it out to be - you just have to know how to react quickly and effectively.
EDIT: A question of my own. I see certain players go 14 gas 13 pool instead of 14/14. Why is this? Does it have to do with larva or queen inject timings?
I realise this has probably been asked loads of times before, but doing a quick search didn't give much insight. I also remember answering someone on this question in a thread too but I can't find that anymore =\
Question is, why have people started to do extractor trick openings instead of 9 overlord? I heard someone say that it is safer vs cheese, and another rumour that it saves lava... anyone know a definitive answer?
On July 16 2011 00:46 Valckrie wrote: I realise this has probably been asked loads of times before, but doing a quick search didn't give much insight. I also remember answering someone on this question in a thread too but I can't find that anymore =\
Question is, why have people started to do extractor trick openings instead of 9 overlord? I heard someone say that it is safer vs cheese, and another rumour that it saves lava... anyone know a definitive answer?
On July 16 2011 00:46 Valckrie wrote: I realise this has probably been asked loads of times before, but doing a quick search didn't give much insight. I also remember answering someone on this question in a thread too but I can't find that anymore =\
Question is, why have people started to do extractor trick openings instead of 9 overlord? I heard someone say that it is safer vs cheese, and another rumour that it saves lava... anyone know a definitive answer?
People have been doing this for a while, it's simply a matter of preference. You'll see more 9 overlords on the NA and EU servers, and more extractor tricks on the KR server. It's not safer against cheese (unless it's really bizarre cheese that hits right as you get the extra drone out) and it doesn't safe on larva. It's actually slightly worse in terms of economy if you look at this topic: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133917
In the end, though, do what you want. Whatever gives you smoother timings and is more comfortable and natural for you to do. If people on NA or EU are doing this more, I'm guessing it's because they want to seem more "korean", as stupid as that sounds.
On July 16 2011 02:35 Teoita wrote: Since 1-1-1 terran all-ins are extremely common in PvT, why isn't it more common to gas steal a terran?
A couple reasons I would think.
1. You don't need your second gas immediately as Terran to get hellion drop/banshee etc out on time. 2. It can slow down your defense (delaying cyber, probes, w/e it is) 3. you have to get the probe in before the first marine pops, and if you get it in that early then spending the 75 can throw your timings off, etc. 4. you don't KNOW if he's going 1/1/1, so at worst you're wating 75 mineral that won't slow down terran whatsoever.
edit: actually, you said all-ins. So i guess not all of this would count. hopefully some of it does tho, or gets you on the right track. i'm sure someone smarter than me will answer you as well.
How do I defend against 1-base banshee play as zerg? I just started offracing zerg and have been having problems with 2-3 banshees coming into my base.
Should I.. A. Have lair tech + 1 spore at each mineral line? (I'm guessing no, since doing this blind is a huge waste when they don't go banshee) B. Have 3rd/4th queen earlier? If so, at what time? I've seen lots of zergs go 2 queens and eventually a 3rd. I'm guessing with proper transfuse micro you should be able to 3v3 queens vs banshees?
On July 16 2011 04:59 blinkblue wrote: How do I defend against 1-base banshee play as zerg? I just started offracing zerg and have been having problems with 2-3 banshees coming into my base.
Should I.. A. Have lair tech + 1 spore at each mineral line? (I'm guessing no, since doing this blind is a huge waste when they don't go banshee) B. Have 3rd/4th queen earlier? If so, at what time? I've seen lots of zergs go 2 queens and eventually a 3rd. I'm guessing with proper transfuse micro you should be able to 3v3 queens vs banshees?
It's a scouting based thing. Generally if you see your opponent go for an early gas and no hellions come, you should throw down an evolution chamber. I like to get 4 queens before lair as well (assuming my opponent didn't 2rax) simply because they can help as universal harass defenders early game. As long as you make queens in response to scouting a possibly for banshees, you should be safe against 1port without cloak, and the ability to build spores will help if your opponent went for a 2port aggressive build or a cloak build.
4 hellions did end up coming, and then banshees afterward. I assumed he was going for the standard 1/1 expand with 4 hellions into standard marine/tank. I don't know how else I'll be able to see it coming.
On July 16 2011 05:16 blinkblue wrote: 4 hellions did end up coming, and then banshees afterward. I assumed he was going for the standard 1/1 expand with 4 hellions into standard marine/tank. I don't know how else I'll be able to see it coming.
I've noticed lately that a fair amount of terrans have been going hellion into banshee (with cloak too). I think it's something you either have to sac an overlord to scout or else just defend blindly. In my build i always get an early evo, but if you don't you should look for a tech opening as your signal. If i see hellions I throw down an evo then a spore at each mineral line. 2 spores isnt that much of a reaction, even if banshees never come.
If you're on 2 base, you should have about 3 queens by the time banshees come, try and start it early. I always start a 4th as soon as I see banshees come, more if they are commiting.
always scout their front too! see when/if that CC goes down.
On July 16 2011 04:59 blinkblue wrote: How do I defend against 1-base banshee play as zerg? I just started offracing zerg and have been having problems with 2-3 banshees coming into my base.
Should I.. A. Have lair tech + 1 spore at each mineral line? (I'm guessing no, since doing this blind is a huge waste when they don't go banshee) B. Have 3rd/4th queen earlier? If so, at what time? I've seen lots of zergs go 2 queens and eventually a 3rd. I'm guessing with proper transfuse micro you should be able to 3v3 queens vs banshees?
Just start incorporating additional queens into your game. Unless you're planning on early aggression, here's no reason not to pump out 3-4 queens early on. They protect you vs both Hellion and Banshee harass, as well as fortify you against every other sort of aggression, since they make great tanks if you lead with them. And because they take no gas or larva, they don't majorly impact your ability to tech up or drone. And, of course, there's always the benefit of more queens = more creep spread.
More queens just make you safer against everything.
Thank you for your help, Grr Arr Rawr ,galtdunn, and Soluhwin.
Another question: What is the correct ZvP response vs forge fast expand? I stopped gas gathering completely (late zergling speed), only got 2 zerglings to kill scout/take towers, and grabbed a quick third. Just go heavy eco, correct?
On July 16 2011 07:01 blinkblue wrote: Thank you for your help, Grr Arr Rawr ,galtdunn, and Soluhwin.
Another question: What is the correct ZvP response vs forge fast expand? I stopped gas gathering completely (late zergling speed), only got 2 zerglings to kill scout/take towers, and grabbed a quick third. Just go heavy eco, correct?
2 options:
1. Roach/ling all in. in which case you get 150,175, or 200 gas for (6,7, or 8) roaches. then you pull off gas and mass produce lings and rally to their expo. From there you can make drones (assuming you're going for a nexus kill/cancel) or just keep up with the lings until they're dead. (note: watch his cannon count, and when you attack focus these with your roaches/lings first).
2. Delay your lair by a minute or two and grab a quick third. The protoss expo should come between 6 minutes and 6:30, you should have your third started at 8 minutes at the lastest. Proceed to drone and scout; then react accordingly. Your lair should come at around the same time your expansion goes down (and perhaps a macro hatchery as well), see notes.
notes: watch his sentry count early game. If a nexus drops at 6:30 and he only has 2-4 sentries, you can be sure that he's teching (usually DTs for a DT expand or VRs for denying your 3rd). The proper response is an evo and creep spread towards your third base (you should have 3-4 queens). Make sure you get spores down at each base and have enough units (~20 lings or 4-5 roaches for DTs and 4 queens for heavy air) to defend his pressure. If it's too much air pressure for just queens to defend, throw down your hydra den and make a few. Try not to overcommit because from that point a common transition is into collosus. on the other hand, if he has 5-9 sentries it should be a normal 3 gate expo. play as you normally would.
On July 16 2011 06:26 H.k[D] wrote: whats a safe opening against terrans as protoss that will not put you too far behind economically
I don't play terran, but in the NASL a couple good Terrans were going 2 rax, one with reactor one with tech lab, into pressure/expansion. With this setup you have the option of upgrading combat shield, going for a stim push, or a marauder with concussive shell push, as well as enough units to defend. A third barracks and either a 4th barracks or factory (depending on your strategy) after you've started your command center is a common way to follow up.
Also, on BIG maps (tal darim, shakuras) where you've scouted no early pressure, a one barracks CC into 2 more barracks (one with tech lab) is also fairly safe. Transitions out of this are 2 reactors and another barracks for bio or a factory then starport.
Another build is Thorzain's 1/1/1 with a command center. I don't know the exact build but he delays his banshees slightly to get a CC down in his base. This one isn't too safe or economical but it allows you to do damage to pull you back even with the protoss. IIRC, he also gets a reactor on his barracks, then switches it out after the banshees to get medivacs for drops, and to go marine/tank/medivac.
Edit: wow apparently I can't read and you wanted protoss builds. I put some thought into this response too. shoot...
EPT
