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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On July 13 2011 20:00 FlaminGinjaNinja wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 15:28 alphafuzard wrote:On July 13 2011 14:19 ZeroTalent wrote:On July 12 2011 06:52 Galbwe wrote: Is it possible to friendly fire with fungal growth?
I have the general form of this question, which is, which units' splash damage has friendly fire, and which do not? I know tanks have it; so do Storm, EMP and Nuke, and Fungal doesn't; but I'm not sure about colossi, ultras, hellions, banelings, Thor air attack, archons, and raven HSM. I was shocked to see replays where the hellion flame went over friendly units and appeared to cause no damage... colossi - no ultras - no hellions - no banelings - no thor air attack - i dont think so archons - i dont think so raven hsm - yes Tanks - yes EMP - yes Storm - yes Fungal - no Nuke - yes (obviously) Also thors don't do friendly air splash And to be clear; archons certainly do not friendly fire, either.
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if ive commited to doing a dt rush and the zerg attacks with a early roach push what do u reckon would be the best way to deal? or have i already lost? should I warp in dt's on the proxy or in base to try and defend when the roaches are in my base?
EDIT: It was also on a smaller map, should you really only do this strategy on large maps? less likely to be scouted and less chance of a rush?
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Was it ever considered to have ghosts have 2 different EMPs, one to remove only shields and one to remove energy. It just seems that in PvT, one EMP can reduce both shields and energy and completely change any outcome of the battle.
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On July 13 2011 23:01 Am0n3r wrote: Was it ever considered to have ghosts have 2 different EMPs, one to remove only shields and one to remove energy. It just seems that in PvT, one EMP can reduce both shields and energy and completely change any outcome of the battle.
This isn't a balance thread. You can complain about balance and make your suggestions elsewhere.
On July 13 2011 22:39 Tommylew wrote: if ive commited to doing a dt rush and the zerg attacks with a early roach push what do u reckon would be the best way to deal? or have i already lost? should I warp in dt's on the proxy or in base to try and defend when the roaches are in my base?
EDIT: It was also on a smaller map, should you really only do this strategy on large maps? less likely to be scouted and less chance of a rush?
Do you mean a 1 base all in type dt rush or do you mean a dt expand type thing? If it's the latter then warp them in to defend. I believe MC at last MLG showcased this. Otherwise I don't know you most likely lost.
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On July 13 2011 23:01 Am0n3r wrote: Was it ever considered to have ghosts have 2 different EMPs, one to remove only shields and one to remove energy. It just seems that in PvT, one EMP can reduce both shields and energy and completely change any outcome of the battle.
Ghosts actually have only 1 emp that does both. If it seems like there's more than one emp happening on your forces, that's because he may be emping your spellcasters more than once. To be clear; ghosts have 1 EMP spell that does both shield and energy damage, and any stacking you see is to deal more than 100 damage (the amount the spell does)
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My questions was "if it was ever considered" or previously discussed... I am not complaining, I am just asking.
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On July 13 2011 23:04 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 23:01 Am0n3r wrote: Was it ever considered to have ghosts have 2 different EMPs, one to remove only shields and one to remove energy. It just seems that in PvT, one EMP can reduce both shields and energy and completely change any outcome of the battle. This isn't a balance thread. You can complain about balance and make your suggestions elsewhere. Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 22:39 Tommylew wrote: if ive commited to doing a dt rush and the zerg attacks with a early roach push what do u reckon would be the best way to deal? or have i already lost? should I warp in dt's on the proxy or in base to try and defend when the roaches are in my base?
EDIT: It was also on a smaller map, should you really only do this strategy on large maps? less likely to be scouted and less chance of a rush? Do you mean a 1 base all in type dt rush or do you mean a dt expand type thing? If it's the latter then warp them in to defend. I believe MC at last MLG showcased this. Otherwise I don't know you most likely lost.
You haven't lost, definitely not, you can use your dts to defend, best-case-scenario with still having one in his base since you'll most likely lose some probes. Is it an extremely early, say 7-roaches-push? In that case you're in a tougher spot, but you should be able to get out some dts to defend I believe...
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On July 13 2011 23:28 Tryxtira wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 23:04 Numy wrote:On July 13 2011 23:01 Am0n3r wrote: Was it ever considered to have ghosts have 2 different EMPs, one to remove only shields and one to remove energy. It just seems that in PvT, one EMP can reduce both shields and energy and completely change any outcome of the battle. This isn't a balance thread. You can complain about balance and make your suggestions elsewhere. On July 13 2011 22:39 Tommylew wrote: if ive commited to doing a dt rush and the zerg attacks with a early roach push what do u reckon would be the best way to deal? or have i already lost? should I warp in dt's on the proxy or in base to try and defend when the roaches are in my base?
EDIT: It was also on a smaller map, should you really only do this strategy on large maps? less likely to be scouted and less chance of a rush? Do you mean a 1 base all in type dt rush or do you mean a dt expand type thing? If it's the latter then warp them in to defend. I believe MC at last MLG showcased this. Otherwise I don't know you most likely lost. You haven't lost, definitely not, you can use your dts to defend, best-case-scenario with still having one in his base since you'll most likely lose some probes. Is it an extremely early, say 7-roaches-push? In that case you're in a tougher spot, but you should be able to get out some dts to defend I believe...
I think ill just have to keep trying and see what I come up to, like mayb get a sentry earlier to delay a lot longer, problem was i lost pylons and had to pull probes twhile my darkshrine finished and I got dt's out. Probably should only do this vs a expansion zerg now and switch to eithier 4 gate or 3 gate robo if I dont see an expansion from the zerg. Suppose only way to learn what it works vs and doesnt work vs is by trying.Problem is ive learnt how to do sentry expand by doing it lots and now im working on learning a few more buillds to try get into masters wihtout doing the same strategy in each matchup.
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I was thinking aboout making a post about how i've never tried to master one single strategy or style.
I am a diamond zerg (haven't played much since I got promoted about a month ago due to work/school), but I started out as silver Soon after SC2 was released.
I'm planning on showing some various replays and talking about practicing and stuff. I almost never go for a specific "build order" (obviously i go the standard 14/14 openers, 15 hatch, etc), but beyond that I rarely have a game plan.
Would this be a viable/good post? What would I have to do to make it so? and where would i post it? (i'm almost thinking as a [L] post on strat forum...)
P.S. i am thinking about asking for people to review the games as well and just provide possible pointers, etc (if i do this i will definitely be analyzing my games in the thread, so don't worry about me just trolling for help). Should that be part of the same thread or a different thread?
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In PvZ, why wouldn't you choose to upgrade sheilds over base health?
Zerg has no way to take advantage of sheilds (like EMP), and they also regen unlike base health.
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On July 14 2011 01:27 deathly rat wrote: In PvZ, why wouldn't you choose to upgrade sheilds over base health?
Zerg has no way to take advantage of sheilds (like EMP), and they also regen unlike base health.
Shield upgrades are more expensive than armor upgrades and take longer to research.
If you don't have air units, you're upgrading the same kind of units with both upgrades.
Protoss units tend to have more health point than shield points.
Gateway units already have 1 base armor. It's always a lot more efficient to have 0 shield upgrade and 2 armor than 1/1 . (see critical upgrade analysis).
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On July 14 2011 00:53 galtdunn wrote: I was thinking aboout making a post about how i've never tried to master one single strategy or style.
I am a diamond zerg (haven't played much since I got promoted about a month ago due to work/school), but I started out as silver Soon after SC2 was released.
I'm planning on showing some various replays and talking about practicing and stuff. I almost never go for a specific "build order" (obviously i go the standard 14/14 openers, 15 hatch, etc), but beyond that I rarely have a game plan.
Would this be a viable/good post? What would I have to do to make it so? and where would i post it? (i'm almost thinking as a [L] post on strat forum...)
P.S. i am thinking about asking for people to review the games as well and just provide possible pointers, etc (if i do this i will definitely be analyzing my games in the thread, so don't worry about me just trolling for help). Should that be part of the same thread or a different thread?
I'm pretty sure telling people not to have a game plan is bad advice. Anyone can get to any league by just "winging it", but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
If I misunderstood you message, and you want to create a thread asking for advice, then yes, it's a good idea to analyse your games and provide replays asking for help.
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On July 14 2011 01:42 Geiko wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 14 2011 00:53 galtdunn wrote: I was thinking aboout making a post about how i've never tried to master one single strategy or style.
I am a diamond zerg (haven't played much since I got promoted about a month ago due to work/school), but I started out as silver Soon after SC2 was released.
I'm planning on showing some various replays and talking about practicing and stuff. I almost never go for a specific "build order" (obviously i go the standard 14/14 openers, 15 hatch, etc), but beyond that I rarely have a game plan.
Would this be a viable/good post? What would I have to do to make it so? and where would i post it? (i'm almost thinking as a [L] post on strat forum...)
P.S. i am thinking about asking for people to review the games as well and just provide possible pointers, etc (if i do this i will definitely be analyzing my games in the thread, so don't worry about me just trolling for help). Should that be part of the same thread or a different thread? I'm pretty sure telling people not to have a game plan is bad advice. Anyone can get to any league by just "winging it", but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. If I misunderstood you message, and you want to create a thread asking for advice, then yes, it's a good idea to analyse your games and provide replays asking for help.
Well I wouldn't necessarily be advocating it, probably just discussing its strengths and weaknesses (at least in lower leagues, obviously having a build in mind is a good idea).
I'll probably create a thread asking for advice just because I love other people's input. Being self-critical is useful but it's nowhere near as interesting as getting outside commetary on your own play.
Then again, I'm sure I''m not the opnly person in diamond/plat with no gameplan. I guess getting to diamond isn't what it used to be. It's probably a bad idea that will just get shot down.
Anyways thanks for the reply.
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On July 13 2011 23:42 Tommylew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 23:28 Tryxtira wrote:On July 13 2011 23:04 Numy wrote:On July 13 2011 23:01 Am0n3r wrote: Was it ever considered to have ghosts have 2 different EMPs, one to remove only shields and one to remove energy. It just seems that in PvT, one EMP can reduce both shields and energy and completely change any outcome of the battle. This isn't a balance thread. You can complain about balance and make your suggestions elsewhere. On July 13 2011 22:39 Tommylew wrote: if ive commited to doing a dt rush and the zerg attacks with a early roach push what do u reckon would be the best way to deal? or have i already lost? should I warp in dt's on the proxy or in base to try and defend when the roaches are in my base?
EDIT: It was also on a smaller map, should you really only do this strategy on large maps? less likely to be scouted and less chance of a rush? Do you mean a 1 base all in type dt rush or do you mean a dt expand type thing? If it's the latter then warp them in to defend. I believe MC at last MLG showcased this. Otherwise I don't know you most likely lost. You haven't lost, definitely not, you can use your dts to defend, best-case-scenario with still having one in his base since you'll most likely lose some probes. Is it an extremely early, say 7-roaches-push? In that case you're in a tougher spot, but you should be able to get out some dts to defend I believe... I think ill just have to keep trying and see what I come up to, like mayb get a sentry earlier to delay a lot longer, problem was i lost pylons and had to pull probes twhile my darkshrine finished and I got dt's out. Probably should only do this vs a expansion zerg now and switch to eithier 4 gate or 3 gate robo if I dont see an expansion from the zerg. Suppose only way to learn what it works vs and doesnt work vs is by trying.Problem is ive learnt how to do sentry expand by doing it lots and now im working on learning a few more buillds to try get into masters wihtout doing the same strategy in each matchup.
Absolutely, what you could definitely try as well, is that while your Twilight Council finishes up, if you do not see an expansion by then, you go for blink stalkers and then 3gate blinkstalker pressure into expand. Even if he gets a delayed expansion, or even stops your scouting, this will be a solid way to not get too far behind. If you see an expansion, your DTs will be up before any roach-all-in he throws at you and you will be reasonably safe. I feel that will be a much more solid build than blindly going for DTs and risking these problems. I doubt you would wanna go for another early sentry though since 100 gas is a lot and will delay your tech immensely! 
I really like blink stalkers early on as I think it is extremely good micro training! Perfectly executed and it's insanely hard to stop unless he's gone for some superfast infestors.
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On July 14 2011 01:50 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 01:42 Geiko wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 14 2011 00:53 galtdunn wrote: I was thinking aboout making a post about how i've never tried to master one single strategy or style.
I am a diamond zerg (haven't played much since I got promoted about a month ago due to work/school), but I started out as silver Soon after SC2 was released.
I'm planning on showing some various replays and talking about practicing and stuff. I almost never go for a specific "build order" (obviously i go the standard 14/14 openers, 15 hatch, etc), but beyond that I rarely have a game plan.
Would this be a viable/good post? What would I have to do to make it so? and where would i post it? (i'm almost thinking as a [L] post on strat forum...)
P.S. i am thinking about asking for people to review the games as well and just provide possible pointers, etc (if i do this i will definitely be analyzing my games in the thread, so don't worry about me just trolling for help). Should that be part of the same thread or a different thread? I'm pretty sure telling people not to have a game plan is bad advice. Anyone can get to any league by just "winging it", but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. If I misunderstood you message, and you want to create a thread asking for advice, then yes, it's a good idea to analyse your games and provide replays asking for help. Well I wouldn't necessarily be advocating it, probably just discussing its strengths and weaknesses (at least in lower leagues, obviously having a build in mind is a good idea). I'll probably create a thread asking for advice just because I love other people's input. Being self-critical is useful but it's nowhere near as interesting as getting outside commetary on your own play. Then again, I'm sure I''m not the opnly person in diamond/plat with no gameplan. I guess getting to diamond isn't what it used to be. It's probably a bad idea that will just get shot down. Anyways thanks for the reply.
I just wanna make some stuff clear. To start with, as a Zerg not having a specific build order in mind if most of the times just fine, because Zerg works differently than the other races. You kind of want to drone your brains out as long as it doesn't kill you. However, you should definitely have a "gameplan". You should have some kind of idea that can be very general, it could be, "I want to scout him a lot, and respond to A with B and respond to X with Y. You could also have a gameplan that consists of making it alive into mid-game and then make a strong push from three bases.
The reason why these idea of general gameplans is brilliant is because it makes you have a clear goal that you're aiming for. This makes your play a lot more focused and won't allow for as many indecisive situations.
To actually respond to whether it's a good idea to make a thread about it, why not? I agree with you that a lot of Plat/Diamond players enter games with no gameplans so why not make a thread to discuss it's pros and cons. I'm not all-knowing and even though I think that the general response will favor having a gameplan, it's always great to see different perspectives of things! 
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On July 13 2011 23:42 Tommylew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 23:28 Tryxtira wrote:On July 13 2011 23:04 Numy wrote:On July 13 2011 23:01 Am0n3r wrote: Was it ever considered to have ghosts have 2 different EMPs, one to remove only shields and one to remove energy. It just seems that in PvT, one EMP can reduce both shields and energy and completely change any outcome of the battle. This isn't a balance thread. You can complain about balance and make your suggestions elsewhere. On July 13 2011 22:39 Tommylew wrote: if ive commited to doing a dt rush and the zerg attacks with a early roach push what do u reckon would be the best way to deal? or have i already lost? should I warp in dt's on the proxy or in base to try and defend when the roaches are in my base?
EDIT: It was also on a smaller map, should you really only do this strategy on large maps? less likely to be scouted and less chance of a rush? Do you mean a 1 base all in type dt rush or do you mean a dt expand type thing? If it's the latter then warp them in to defend. I believe MC at last MLG showcased this. Otherwise I don't know you most likely lost. You haven't lost, definitely not, you can use your dts to defend, best-case-scenario with still having one in his base since you'll most likely lose some probes. Is it an extremely early, say 7-roaches-push? In that case you're in a tougher spot, but you should be able to get out some dts to defend I believe... I think ill just have to keep trying and see what I come up to, like mayb get a sentry earlier to delay a lot longer, problem was i lost pylons and had to pull probes twhile my darkshrine finished and I got dt's out. Probably should only do this vs a expansion zerg now and switch to eithier 4 gate or 3 gate robo if I dont see an expansion from the zerg. Suppose only way to learn what it works vs and doesnt work vs is by trying.Problem is ive learnt how to do sentry expand by doing it lots and now im working on learning a few more buillds to try get into masters wihtout doing the same strategy in each matchup. Here are some comments about DTs that may help you in PvZ: If you've no proxy pylon, you can warp in up to 2 sentries as long as you've already placed your shrine. From the time your shrine is placed to the time it finishes you will get around 325 gas if you are on 2 geysers. If you think you can hold out until the shrine finishes, warp in zeals to mess around and make sure your WGs are available when shrine finishes. For every sentry you warp in, you lose a dark templar (this is all post shrine placement). If you need 3 sentries, you can do it, but your shrine will pop with a slight delay on warping in a lone DT.
IF you have a proxy pylon, I usually warp in 2 at home and 1 at proxy. The reasons for this are: You need to clear your base faster than you clear his base because he is probably up significantly on macro compared to you and you can't suffer too much damage, but 1 DT in his base will force multitasking and will do damage, shift click the workers because the DT will typically chase the queen around if he's not being babysat.
Basically you shouldn't spend gas until your shrine is placed, if you do DTs are delayed. Once you place your shrine, if you are properly saturated you will get about 900-1000 minerals to work with before it is finished, but only about 325-350 gas, therefore, any stalkers or sentries built will cut into DT count when shrine is done.
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I just wanna make some stuff clear. To start with, as a Zerg not having a specific build order in mind if most of the times just fine, because Zerg works differently than the other races. You kind of want to drone your brains out as long as it doesn't kill you. However, you should definitely have a "gameplan". You should have some kind of idea that can be very general, it could be, "I want to scout him a lot, and respond to A with B and respond to X with Y. You could also have a gameplan that consists of making it alive into mid-game and then make a strong push from three bases. The reason why these idea of general gameplans is brilliant is because it makes you have a clear goal that you're aiming for. This makes your play a lot more focused and won't allow for as many indecisive situations. To actually respond to whether it's a good idea to make a thread about it, why not? I agree with you that a lot of Plat/Diamond players enter games with no gameplans so why not make a thread to discuss it's pros and cons. I'm not all-knowing and even though I think that the general response will favor having a gameplan, it's always great to see different perspectives of things! 
Oh thanks  Good point. What kind of thread would that be then, a [D]?
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On July 14 2011 02:20 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +I just wanna make some stuff clear. To start with, as a Zerg not having a specific build order in mind if most of the times just fine, because Zerg works differently than the other races. You kind of want to drone your brains out as long as it doesn't kill you. However, you should definitely have a "gameplan". You should have some kind of idea that can be very general, it could be, "I want to scout him a lot, and respond to A with B and respond to X with Y. You could also have a gameplan that consists of making it alive into mid-game and then make a strong push from three bases. The reason why these idea of general gameplans is brilliant is because it makes you have a clear goal that you're aiming for. This makes your play a lot more focused and won't allow for as many indecisive situations. To actually respond to whether it's a good idea to make a thread about it, why not? I agree with you that a lot of Plat/Diamond players enter games with no gameplans so why not make a thread to discuss it's pros and cons. I'm not all-knowing and even though I think that the general response will favor having a gameplan, it's always great to see different perspectives of things!  Oh thanks  Good point. What kind of thread would that be then, a [D]?
Indeed a [D] (Discussion) Thread. A great tip is also to think twice about the topic. You want it to be as clear as possible for people to click it. In the OP you should also be very specific about what you want the thread to be about, make clear that you do know that the general thesis is that you need a gameplan but that you're interested in discussing the positive sides of not having one The better the OP the better the thread and discussion will be! 
Read through this post to get an idea about how a good thread looks!
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On July 14 2011 02:52 Tryxtira wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 02:20 galtdunn wrote:I just wanna make some stuff clear. To start with, as a Zerg not having a specific build order in mind if most of the times just fine, because Zerg works differently than the other races. You kind of want to drone your brains out as long as it doesn't kill you. However, you should definitely have a "gameplan". You should have some kind of idea that can be very general, it could be, "I want to scout him a lot, and respond to A with B and respond to X with Y. You could also have a gameplan that consists of making it alive into mid-game and then make a strong push from three bases. The reason why these idea of general gameplans is brilliant is because it makes you have a clear goal that you're aiming for. This makes your play a lot more focused and won't allow for as many indecisive situations. To actually respond to whether it's a good idea to make a thread about it, why not? I agree with you that a lot of Plat/Diamond players enter games with no gameplans so why not make a thread to discuss it's pros and cons. I'm not all-knowing and even though I think that the general response will favor having a gameplan, it's always great to see different perspectives of things!  Oh thanks  Good point. What kind of thread would that be then, a [D]? Indeed a [D] (Discussion) Thread. A great tip is also to think twice about the topic. You want it to be as clear as possible for people to click it. In the OP you should also be very specific about what you want the thread to be about, make clear that you do know that the general thesis is that you need a gameplan but that you're interested in discussing the positive sides of not having one  The better the OP the better the thread and discussion will be!  Read through this post to get an idea about how a good thread looks!
I actually had that open before i posted on here Thanks for all the great feedback tho Tryxtira
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On July 14 2011 02:58 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 02:52 Tryxtira wrote:On July 14 2011 02:20 galtdunn wrote:I just wanna make some stuff clear. To start with, as a Zerg not having a specific build order in mind if most of the times just fine, because Zerg works differently than the other races. You kind of want to drone your brains out as long as it doesn't kill you. However, you should definitely have a "gameplan". You should have some kind of idea that can be very general, it could be, "I want to scout him a lot, and respond to A with B and respond to X with Y. You could also have a gameplan that consists of making it alive into mid-game and then make a strong push from three bases. The reason why these idea of general gameplans is brilliant is because it makes you have a clear goal that you're aiming for. This makes your play a lot more focused and won't allow for as many indecisive situations. To actually respond to whether it's a good idea to make a thread about it, why not? I agree with you that a lot of Plat/Diamond players enter games with no gameplans so why not make a thread to discuss it's pros and cons. I'm not all-knowing and even though I think that the general response will favor having a gameplan, it's always great to see different perspectives of things!  Oh thanks  Good point. What kind of thread would that be then, a [D]? Indeed a [D] (Discussion) Thread. A great tip is also to think twice about the topic. You want it to be as clear as possible for people to click it. In the OP you should also be very specific about what you want the thread to be about, make clear that you do know that the general thesis is that you need a gameplan but that you're interested in discussing the positive sides of not having one  The better the OP the better the thread and discussion will be!  Read through this post to get an idea about how a good thread looks! I actually had that open before i posted on here Thanks for all the great feedback tho Tryxtira 
I would really like to warn you about making threads that go against the general consensus. You have to be really careful because you get immediately flammed for saying something like "having a game plan isn't always a good thing".
My advice to you would be to take it from another angle. Maybe present your ideas through a different problematic such as "Why it is more important to be reactive than to stick with a precise build order".
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