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ZvZ
What's the best way to get banelings out when doing a speedling expand or is it better to skip banelings and go roaches when going speedling expand?
Should I leave 1 drone on gas when I get my hundred for speed or should I put 3 back on once I drop my expo? Maybe just 2 once I drop my expo? Should the banelings come before the expo? Should drones ever be taken off gas? And will I be able to get banelings out in time against aggressive 1 base banelings?
somebody else tried answering but they didn't understand the question, i'm going to get speed and going to expo at 21 i was just the effieiencet way to get blings
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On July 06 2011 21:00 AustinCM wrote:
ZvZ
What's the best way to get banelings out when doing a speedling expand or is it better to skip banelings and go roaches when going speedling expand?
Should I leave 1 drone on gas when I get my hundred for speed or should I put 3 back on once I drop my expo? Maybe just 2 once I drop my expo? Should the banelings come before the expo? Should drones ever be taken off gas? And will I be able to get banelings out in time against aggressive 1 base banelings?
somebody else tried answering but they didn't understand the question, i'm going to get speed and going to expo at 21 i was just the effieiencet way to get blings
When going Speedling expand you should almost always get banelings to help defend. I believe I heard Machine or MrBitter say that once on MrBitter's show. I can't remember the series or episode though. I personally only get banelings in ZvZ if I am speedling expanding. If I hatch-first then I skip straight to roaches.
I believe this is depends on the situation and what you have in mind. For example, if you're thinking about quick Baneling pressure, then keep 2 or 3 on gas. But if you're expanding and need the mineral but slowly want to build up to Banelings, then leave 1 on gas. It's all relevant to how many minerals/gas you'll need for your "game plan."
If you're expanding and only leaving 1 drone on gas, then no you will not be getting banelings out in time for an aggressive 1-base Baneling push, you'll need to hold it off with your ling micro, your queen and a spine crawler.
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Pros can't do it anymore on tournament maps, and the rest of us just copy what pros do because we're not good enough to figure out a good build order that would keep this low depot safe.
There are many pro games where korean terrans did that to either hide tech or fast expand before the neutral depot maps were added. (on the top of my head, MKP vs MC I think on xnc in some GSL, and MVP on shakuras vs some guy, maybe HuK...)
Edit : Didn't see you were talking about TvZ precisely. Same answer though, except I haven't seen many pros do it 
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On July 06 2011 17:19 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 16:36 Dariusz wrote:On July 06 2011 15:49 galtdunn wrote:
What's the least cost effective use of Fungaling marines while still remaining cost effective?
Ex: using 2 fungals to kill 18 marines is obviously worth it. But what about 6 marines, or 4?
The number of infesters you have obviously makes a difference, so assume around 4-8 (I think that's about average?). Fungals cost energy not money, thus even killing 1 marine with fungal is cost effective if your infeestor doesn't die and have a chance to be used in the battle again. This is a misconception. You get infestors for their ability to fungal. You pay money upfront to "buy" their initial 75 energy and their capacity to regenerate energy. Time is money IRL and in starcraft. Wasting energy points is wasting time, is wasting money.
That's what i was thinking. However, you didn't exactly answer my question 
I'm still curious.
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PVZ
what army composition do i need to battle the mass roach infestor zerg ? zealot archon HT or immortal stalker or whaT ?
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On July 07 2011 01:05 devilcry wrote:
PVZ
what army composition do i need to battle the mass roach infestor zerg ? zealot archon HT or immortal stalker or whaT ?
I would start with Immortal/Stalker then tech to High templar for the feedback, eventually moving to stalker/immortal/archon (as your high temps use energy).
Sentries are also great for forcefielding sections of roaches out of the battle.
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On July 07 2011 01:05 devilcry wrote:
PVZ
what army composition do i need to battle the mass roach infestor zerg ? zealot archon HT or immortal stalker or whaT ?
Sentry stalker colossus. Just more spread out than you usually do it.
9-10 sentries ideally, as many colossus as you can get off of one gateway and the rest in stalkers.
Excess mineral for cannons to protect your expansions.
That should be the core of your army.
Get a couple of HTs to pull of some feedbacks on the imbafestors, and you're good
Zealot archon is horrible vs roach. Immortals are crappy in big numbers and can get NPed.
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On July 06 2011 23:49 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 17:19 Geiko wrote:On July 06 2011 16:36 Dariusz wrote:On July 06 2011 15:49 galtdunn wrote:
What's the least cost effective use of Fungaling marines while still remaining cost effective?
Ex: using 2 fungals to kill 18 marines is obviously worth it. But what about 6 marines, or 4?
The number of infesters you have obviously makes a difference, so assume around 4-8 (I think that's about average?). Fungals cost energy not money, thus even killing 1 marine with fungal is cost effective if your infeestor doesn't die and have a chance to be used in the battle again. This is a misconception. You get infestors for their ability to fungal. You pay money upfront to "buy" their initial 75 energy and their capacity to regenerate energy. Time is money IRL and in starcraft. Wasting energy points is wasting time, is wasting money. That's what i was thinking. However, you didn't exactly answer my question I'm still curious.
That's because there is no real answer. It's like asking how much stuff should your first 6 zerglings kill. You just get them because it forces the protoss to play a certain way etc... No one can put a number on how much stuff you're supposed to kill with one fungal.
You just know that if it hits on 1 marine, it's proabably wasted, and if you get a bunch of marines, it's probably good. Very situational, sometimes fungaling the last marine that's about to kill a 1 hp broodlord can be very cost effective.
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2 stargate play is actually really good against roach infestor as well. Infestors have very low health so they die to pheonixes very easily, you just have to make sure your pheonixes don't clump or they will die to a few fungals.
Not to mention Void Rays and cannons kill roaches very fast.
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very vulnerable to roach bust
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On July 07 2011 01:24 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 01:05 devilcry wrote:
PVZ
what army composition do i need to battle the mass roach infestor zerg ? zealot archon HT or immortal stalker or whaT ? Sentry stalker colossus. Just more spread out than you usually do it. 9-10 sentries ideally, as many colossus as you can get off of one gateway and the rest in stalkers. Excess mineral for cannons to protect your expansions. That should be the core of your army. Get a couple of HTs to pull of some feedbacks on the imbafestors, and you're good Zealot archon is horrible vs roach. Immortals are crappy in big numbers and can get NPed.
Stalker/colossus is fine, but I prefer not to get too many sentries. I always find that my sentries clump up and get taken out too easily by fungals.
However my personal preference when battling infestors is to just use HT tech. HT and colossus together is great, but you won't be able to afford that until late game, and roach/infestor is typically a mid-game problem for the protoss (late game there are scarier things like infestor/BL). So generally I start with stalker/sentry into stalker/sentry/immortal into stalker/sentry/immortal/HT. Immortals are optional, depending on how many infestors he has/if he uses NP.
On July 07 2011 01:35 Percutio wrote:
2 stargate play is actually really good against roach infestor as well. Infestors have very low health so they die to pheonixes very easily, you just have to make sure your pheonixes don't clump or they will die to a few fungals.
Not to mention Void Rays and cannons kill roaches very fast.
What? Infestors completely counter stargate play so hard. "make sure you pheonixes don't clump" do you know how hard that actually is? Have you even tried going air against infestors?
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wtf is with every singe zerg i face on ladder doing only and ONLY mass roach
no other unit exists for them ???and i cannot believe any zerg QQs that their race is weak yet they only need to mass one unit to win the game
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On July 07 2011 02:05 devilcry wrote:
wtf is with every singe zerg i face on ladder doing only and ONLY mass roach
no other unit exists for them ???and i cannot believe any zerg QQs that their race is weak yet they only need to mass one unit to win the game
I'm assuming you're teran from your icon so... you can easily counter mass roach with marOWders, or tank/thor.
If you're toss and they only get roaches, just get stalker/sentry/immortal.
If you're zerg, that's kind the metagame right now. Upgrades and macro :-)
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im protoss and if another zerg even thinks of complaining about something again im gonna find their adress and go to their home and punch them in the face because this is completely bullshit...last 10 PvZ: 0 win 10 loss (diamond) and only vs mass mass mass mass roach (and a few infestors ocasionaly).Atleast before i could win a few games but ive tried anything i can think of but its just retarded...(sorry for the rant moderators i know there is a topic for that)
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On July 07 2011 02:18 devilcry wrote:
im protoss and if another zerg even thinks of complaining about something again im gonna find their adress and go to their home and punch them in the face because this is completely bullshit...last 10 PvZ: 0 win 10 loss (diamond) and only vs mass mass mass mass roach (and a few infestors ocasionaly).Atleast before i could win a few games but ive tried anything i can think of but its just retarded...(sorry for the rant moderators i know there is a topic for that)
Guys like you make this forum a worse place. Take your balance whining to the Bnet forums.
You're probably not GM or pro level and nothing is imbalanced in the lower leagues. Just learn to counter it, play better, stop expecting free wins, and stop blaming other people than yourself for your losses.
Edit : Ok maybe I was a bit mean, and you're just frustrated. What you should be doing is, reading this thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195389
Find out what is wrong with your games, what you could improve on.
Then play again while working on the things you noted (not building probes, not getting upgrades, spending cb etc...)
If you are still not winning, analyze some more and try again.
If you are still not winning, post a thread on TL with the [H] in the title, post 3 or 4 of your replays losing to this particular strat, and ask for help there while giving your personal analysis on your play.
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On July 07 2011 02:05 devilcry wrote:
wtf is with every singe zerg i face on ladder doing only and ONLY mass roach
no other unit exists for them ???and i cannot believe any zerg QQs that their race is weak yet they only need to mass one unit to win the game
Learn to use FF.
I'm serious. Almost every time I've noticed a marked improvement in my gameplay it's because I incorporated more sentries in my play and I used FF better. This is for both PvZ and PvT.
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I was considering this the other day and I was wondering how many units one baneling could actually kill. I know that it does something like a 2.20 radius AoE damage, but how many units could you pack into that area and kill at the same time?
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On July 07 2011 04:05 D3nae wrote:
I was considering this the other day and I was wondering how many units one baneling could actually kill. I know that it does something like a 2.20 radius AoE damage, but how many units could you pack into that area and kill at the same time?
Uhh... depends on the size of the unit? Technically you can forcefield an infinite number of units into 1 square. Also technically 1 baneling can't kill any unit except for broodling/larva, unless it had attack upgrades.
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EPT
