White-Ra's PvT - Page 2

On January 26 2011 05:48 misirlou wrote:


whitera basicaly lost 2 iem finals games due to scv all ins (scrap+1 i dont remember the map)

On January 26 2011 05:39 Piski wrote:


Can someone link the Artosis video?

On January 26 2011 02:49 Vededrid wrote:
This build is really weak it seems early game. Especially in lower leagues, most terrans do a bio push between 6-9 min, the later ones usually having a couple tanks with them. With this build you would not have the army to find off an early push like this. If you ff'd well and held him off through ff's you would still be contained to 1 base, while he is free to expo all over the map and get an economic advantage, since his eco was weakened early for the larger army to pressure the toss with. How could you transition out of a contain like that?

On January 26 2011 07:36 MXG wrote:
I have been using a similar build to great success, except I build my second assimilator around 19 or 20. The upside of this change is that I get a quicker sentry (I really enjoy the extra energy). The obvious downside of this variation is that the build no longer looks like a single-gas 4-gate, so the terran won't waste minerals prepping for the push.

The reason I'm posting this variation is because I wanted to show that this is such a solid opening that you can make various changes and still be in a great place.

On January 25 2011 04:59 Jakalo wrote:
Those who watched Homestory cup #2 and IEM Kiev probably noticed white-Ra`s staple TvP build, which is in essence 1 gate robotics. As DeMuslim remarked it is incredibly versatile and safe against all popular Terran openings while leaving many paths to go thus making your opponents life harder.

This is a rough build order

9 pylon
12 gate
14 Assimilator
18 Cybernetics Core
Put 3 probes in the assimilator, build a zealot followed by a stalker after gate finishes.
Start warpgate research as soon as Core is ready, chrono it.
26/27 Assimilator
28 Robotics Facility (or after scout leaves your base)

You may start building Robotics even if scout is still in your base as it looks like a 4gate till then and making your opponent build bunkers/cut workers/guess is allways a good thing.
In fact it was what White-Ra did in the third game in their series after DeMuslim, 4 gated on Jungle Basin after 2 times using his build.

As I said, versatility is the biggest plus this build has. You are safe against cloaked banshees due to fast observer and you can scout and adapt accordingly due to it too.

If you scout Terran taking one rax expand in his base you can safely expand after you add 2 gateways to your gate/Robo (as your observer reaches terran base as in game on Xel Naga caverns against Cloud) or before you add 2 gates if Terran expands outside his base as TLO on Shakuras Plateau and you manage to scout it.
Generally you want to add 2 gates after your Robo to not to die and add Robotics Bay after that. Rushing to Collossus is not a good idea which used to be main thing people used to do after 1gate Robo.

Or you can bust terran when you are about 2/3 Immortals as in his game against Demuslim on Xel Naga Caverns. Or do some mix of both if terran tries to go cheap.

One thing I noticed was he didnt do it on Jungle basin doing 4gate and a 2gate expand instead. (Also in replaypack) Probably there is some kind of inherent weakness of this build on that map or he just likes to switch it up.

Also he lost both times while doing it on Scrap Station due to hellion drop/Thor push and Marine drop/hellion incursion. (in Homestory cup #2)
So a short air distance is a weakness due to medivacs but I can see it working on ladder if terrans are going fast banshees thus exposing themselves to both bust and making huge investment into cloak which is not gonna pay off due to fast observers.
probably why Ra did it. (also I remember him winning games on Scrap Station with beautiful Warp Prism Harrass so short air distance has advantages too)

Discuss!
Replay pack (from ESL homepage)

On February 14 2011 06:16 Jayrod wrote:


This is not the build order. I studied his build really hardcore and have taken it as my own now.

The second gas goes down right after the robo, followed by a gateway and a pylon. You have to go zealot/stalker/zealot/zealot. These are the units you drop. You add third gateway with the next money after you start your warp prism. Also dont start your first zealot until you have money to, if you did the build correctly and gateway scouted this will be when you are at 19 probes. The second gas goes down at ~30 food normally unless he scouts something indicating he will have to abandon the build.

On February 14 2011 06:10 Fungal Growth wrote:
In regards to the Artosis video, I'm not sure that was a solid defense against an aggressive terran. In that video the terran does banshee harass first then follows it up with MM. Had the terrain just omitted the banshee tech and spammed MM with an earlier timing attack, I think Artosis would not have been able to defend that. Even if say the terrain had grouped the banshee with the MM's, I think Artosis would have been toast (why don't more terran's do this?).

Problem with fast robo is it leaves you too weak... An observer can't fight. Immortals take 55 seconds to produce which is an eternity and are not cost effective units.

Artosis really emphasizes ff play, but once terrain has scan, your ramp isn't that secure... Marauders have the same range as stalkers so if you are not using FF's to deny highground sight, they become very difficult to use effectively because the marauders simply trade fire with the stalkers through the FF's unless your placement is perfect. Throw in the fact that marines are ranged while zealots aren't and it is very difficult to pull off a sentry/immortal defense of a MM push if the terran properly uses his scans.

My vote is the best defense is a good offense... Start with 4 gate and push out...with your attack you should be able to figure out their tech tree and be able to react accordingly.

On February 15 2011 17:29 HQuality wrote:
Here's Ra's explanation of his 1gate>robo>2gate>expand build and how to defence MM+tanks (+raven if t is really good) push with that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhVwlgDooBs
p/s comments on Russian

On February 15 2011 22:35 iChau wrote:
Protoss has chrono-boost. You're not supposed to be spending it all on probes if you suspect aggression. Same thing as making drones when you're supposed to make roaches.

Also, terran doesn't have infinite scans, and if he was preparing for this attack with the scans than that's very clever. It's gonna take some time for him to know. Also, his army will be somewhat smaller because he won't be able to constantly produce if he's not using Mules.

The immortal has enough time to come out unless you don't chrono-boost him and you don't know what forcefield is. Just forcefield it and move away.

You make it sound like Scans > Forcefield.
If that was it than all protoss would be dead.

On February 14 2011 06:10 Fungal Growth wrote:
In regards to the Artosis video, I'm not sure that was a solid defense against an aggressive terran. In that video the terran does banshee harass first then follows it up with MM. Had the terrain just omitted the banshee tech and spammed MM with an earlier timing attack, I think Artosis would not have been able to defend that. Even if say the terrain had grouped the banshee with the MM's, I think Artosis would have been toast (why don't more terran's do this?).