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So my problem right now in zerg versus protoss is when they pressure you early with air and gain map control. The natural response to this is to make a few hydras so that you can actually move outside your base. At this point a protoss will have their expansion up and start going for colossi after their initial voidrays (and perhaps a pheonix to help lift queens).
I have found no efficient way to fight colossi & voidray, supported by gateway units obviously, without getting completely blown to pieces.
The best combination so far that has managed to put up somewhat of a fight is roach/corruptor supported by a few hydras (build too many and the colossi will eat through your army in a matter of seconds). However it's not enough as no game that reaches this point has ended in my favour.
Dear zerg users, and any protoss players that want to help the enemy, what's your response to this unit combination?
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Sweden82 Posts
In both cases, wether you're going muta/ling/bling och roach/hydra/corruter I can recommend adding a few (3-8) queens for transfuses on mutas/corrupters and general air dmg to collosi/voidrays (yes, they do ther air atk vs collosi). Queens also absorb a lot of damage if you put them up front.
Oh, and for those who take rank as a reference, was ranked 88 om top 200 EU.
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Colossus/Void Ray is a tough composition to deal with, and storm can make it even more difficult.
Honestly, I think that the best bet is to not let Protoss get to that point. Void Rays and Colossus are extremely expensive and take awhile to get into a decent number. Deny expansions and starve your opponent.
I play Protoss, and the best way to beat Zerg is to expand expand expand. If I'm kept on 2 bases to their 3+ there is no way I can make an invincible VR/Colossus ball.
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Its tough, hardest build I know of right now in ZvP. I think its best to go for a quick drop with hydra (trying ot hit before he gets too many colsi with range upgrade). If you cant hit before he gets colsi going then corrupter (vs phoenixs and colsi) or muta (vs voidrays) or a mixture, with speed roaches and lings to kill the warpgate stuff.
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What you should do is get hydras out and push right away with hydras and roaches. Almost all of the money has been going to the voids so the ground army won't be strong. There's a fairly large timing window before the protoss has collossus. Just push right away, and that usually wins it for me.
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I'd first do a search, there have been threads about this protoss composition wrecking Zerg...
I'll also direct you to Mr.Bitter's stream and his 12 weeks with the pros VODs. You can watch iNcontroL coaching Mr.Bitter on that exact unit composition in this video.
http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4630654/
Hope it helps.
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from my experience you cant beat a 200/200 protoss army straight up, you need to have many larvae saved up and a good economy so you can throw your army at his and rebuild instantly then crush it the second fight.
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On January 21 2011 07:48 UniQ.eu wrote:
In both cases, wether you're going muta/ling/bling och roach/hydra/corruter I can recommend adding a few (3-8) queens for transfuses on mutas/corrupters and general air dmg to collosi/voidrays (yes, they do ther air atk vs collosi). Queens also absorb a lot of damage if you put them up front.
Oh, and for those who take rank as a reference, was ranked 88 om top 200 EU.
Thanks, I havn't really had that many queens in my army composition up to this point. Will definately try that out.
Honestly, I think that the best bet is to not let Protoss get to that point.
Obviously this is my goal in all the games. It's not always you manage to do this however, and I want to be able to continue the game after that point ;P
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Uh, mass Mutas. They'll be using a lot of gas too so you'll definitely have enough. Remember Colossi can't shoot up and it's not like they can adapt nearly as easily as they can say, with their Gateway units in response to the basic Zerg ground units. They mass enough voids somehow so that your mutas can't deal with them? Counter attack with zerglings and buy time to build up enough Mutas.
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I've never actually had to go against this composition that often. If you keep pressuring the toss, they have to build a lot of gateway units. When you max out, they should be around 170-180 supply, with a handful of Colossi and a lot of gateway units. If he ever tries to skimp on the gateway units, then you can just charge his base and kill him. After that, you keep up constant pressure, and never let him have enough time to build up Void Rays and Colossi, both of which require a lot of time and resources to mass up. They shouldn't have enough supply and resources to get sufficient number of both of them, and just standard Roach/Hydra Corruptor should be enough.
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corrupter counters void ray and coll rather well and gives you an opening to get lords.
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On January 21 2011 08:20 charlie420247 wrote:
corrupter counters void ray and coll rather well and gives you an opening to get lords.
I really don't agree with this. In my experience, void rays completely wrecks corrupters. As others have said, I'd say try not to let them get to that stage. If they're mostly making voids and colos it'll be hard for them to get a third base, and without a third, they won't reach critical mass (not untill you have a big enough macro lead to just kill him with whatever unit comp you wish). Else, in theory, mass mutas should stand a good chance, that's untill they realize it and go phoenix instead of void.
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On January 21 2011 08:05 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Uh, mass Mutas. They'll be using a lot of gas too so you'll definitely have enough. Remember Colossi can't shoot up and it's not like they can adapt nearly as easily as they can say, with their Gateway units in response to the basic Zerg ground units. They mass enough voids somehow so that your mutas can't deal with them? Counter attack with zerglings and buy time to build up enough Mutas.
5-6 voidrays and stalkers rip through mutas quite easily. Zerglings melt away instantly to the colossi so in a head on battle(which the protoss will force sooner or later) that doesn't really work too well in my experience
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get a base up from him and mass corrupters and upgraded roaches. Use roaches to tank damage from corrupters and aim down the collosi, then voidray. if his stalkers and shooting your corrupters he should be running his collosi back so your roaches destroy the rest of his army.
Oh corrupters counter voidrays if they dont have charge, and with charge they wont ahve enough voidrays to kill your corrupters if they are spending it on collosi/sentry/stalker.
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On January 21 2011 08:20 charlie420247 wrote:
corrupter counters void ray and coll rather well and gives you an opening to get lords.
corruptors do not ""counter"" voidrays.
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I've played against this build once and I beat it.. My opponent wasn't the best ever but I'm sure this will give you an idea of how to beat this composition
Basically you want to get mutalisks but you don't want to reveal them if possible. Get lots of air upgrades and just mass mutalisks/corruptors with some roaches. Once you trade armies just reinforce with mass roach and kill him
Heres the game that I had (you might want to fast forward a bit because the beginning part is just a bunch of turtling).. With speed voids no long being available I dont think hatchery sniping with mass void rays will be very effective anymore.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/128868-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis
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On January 21 2011 09:10 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 08:05 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Uh, mass Mutas. They'll be using a lot of gas too so you'll definitely have enough. Remember Colossi can't shoot up and it's not like they can adapt nearly as easily as they can say, with their Gateway units in response to the basic Zerg ground units. They mass enough voids somehow so that your mutas can't deal with them? Counter attack with zerglings and buy time to build up enough Mutas. 5-6 voidrays and stalkers rip through mutas quite easily. Zerglings melt away instantly to the colossi so in a head on battle(which the protoss will force sooner or later) that doesn't really work too well in my experience
if the toss has 5 voidrays AND colossus AND a sizable stalker support army, you're definitely not applying anywhere near-enough pressure. that is an intensely gas and time heavy army, especially after a phoenix/VR opener. as zerg, you need to use your mobility to your advantage to wreak havoc on the protoss base and army by sniping workers, units, and buildings, and especially denying the protoss from expanding.
as far as going hydra, that is definitely a good starter. the den is cheap and goes up fast, and hydras effectively shut down all protoss air, and still have high enough dps to deal with most of protoss ground army. but when the colossus come out, the ability for zerg to tech switch is a very strong advantage. you only need 1 spire to tech switch, whereas a protoss needed to build stargates in addition to gateways, robo bays, support bay, cyber core, and forge (upgrades) for his battle plan.
the unit combos described already in this thread work effectively, you just need to micro your units effectively to make the most of the battle. mutas -> snipe colossus, then send in zerglings to take out the stalkers. when dealing with templar, hit and run attacks to snipe them are very effective as well considering they cost 150 gas a piece. taking out the templar archives should be the first thing every zerg should try to do, imo, as the storm+amulet upgrades are expensive and take a while to complete.
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I don't encouter this comp as often as plain stalker/collosi/zealot... but when I do I, for the most part, scrap the roaches and simply mass hydra/corrupters. If he is going void collossi stalker (with a few zealots?) he wont have enough stalkers / collosi to shut down your ground game if you effectively use the corruption spell. (This is assuming you have good creep spread and decent positioning).
I am a ~2500 Master league player and I have found this to work better then anything else I have previously tried.
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I've lost doing this to mass corrupter followed up by mass roach. That was around a 350 food army, and if the Toss loses his army lategame and the Zerg stockpiled resources, that is an instant win for the Zerg assuming they have a larva cache ready to go.
Mass mutas die too easily to archons or templar, and aren't very good against voidrays anyways.
I've also lost to mass roach and corrupter before I could get enough voidrays and colossus to deal with the Zerg army.
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EPT
