On January 13 2011 00:25 TheBorg wrote: I'm stuck in Silver League for 3v3 and 4v4. I know I'm not a great player, but I have noticed a pattern, especially after losses: 80 - 90% of the time, I am either the best player in the game or the best player on my team.
You think you are the best player. If you are in the sylver league, most of the time you will be one of the weakest player.
If you want to improve, start asking yourself what you did wrong instead of blaming your allies.
Asking "my allies suck, what an I Do", won't get you really far. And I doubt anyone can give you a useful answer.
Post a couple of replay if you want to know what you could change.
nah, it can be pretty obvious. if you look at the score screen and your workers created, army value, units killed, etc. are double that of everyone else in the game, you are much better than them.
when i scout, i let allies know whether it looks like a standard build or a rush build, and just call a time to attack accordingly. also, ping the map when you see enemy movement, just to let people know.
On January 13 2011 00:50 Geiko wrote: Source please ? (or it didn't happen)
Sorry no Source, but he is right. It is most notable during placement matches. It is more important what your score is than if you win or lose. You can get into gold with 4 losses.
I doubt that is true... And if it is, it's kind of stupid in my opinion. Score doesn't tell anything about how good you are. Some games i just like to have fun and go Pylon Pylon Nexus Nexus. Then my allies have to survive 3v4 while at the same time insulting me for not doing anything. I finaly push out with a control group of 3/3/3 carriers to end the game with twice as much point as anyone in the game... So the matchmaking system actualy thinks i did twice as good as my allies who had to survive a 3v4 ?
nah, it can be pretty obvious. if you look at the score screen and your workers created, army value, units killed, etc. are double that of everyone else in the game, you are much better than them.
What is obvious, is that if you judge it using the score screen, you have not the slightest clue of who did a mistake and who played well.
nah, it can be pretty obvious. if you look at the score screen and your workers created, army value, units killed, etc. are double that of everyone else in the game, you are much better than them.
What is obvious, is that if you judge it using the score screen, you have not the slightest clue of who did a mistake and who played well.
For example, if you are the one who gets 6-pooled by two zerg, and hold it off, chances are that you will still be far behind, at least as a zerg. Which will mean that you get very few points in the end, but still, you held of the cheese of two players, while your team could freely prepare for a later timing push.
Also, i found Speedlings to be incredibly good for a push at around 6-7 minutes. You can just produce insane amounts of them, which tanks very good for your partners, gets surrounds on retreating stuff, or just kills all of the workers very fast if you get in somewhere. This obviously leaves you behind in tech, but your push should do significant damage, and with two hatches, you can switch to producing drones very fast if your push slows down.
And, as always, ask what you can improve, since it is your rating, not the random teammates which you worry about. And your rating will consist mostly of your effect on the team, since you will be matched with a lot of different random guys. So don´t search for a way to blame your teammates, just improve your play and teamleading abilities, and your rating will also improve. Don`t blame your teammates for reacting wrong to what you wanted them to do, search for a way to make them react the right way.
I find the more I drink the worse my teammates get. It's actually linear.With one beer, my team is usually pretty strong. By drink number 9 they just stink
OP, as mentioned, if you are in silver you are just not as good as you think - score means nothing. For example if I predict a rush and my allies aren't reacting I will open double 10 gate purely to protect my allies. This will screw up my score but if it lets my ally rush out his DT or whatever then that is what will win the game.
Also, often it's the guy who masses BC/carrier and contributes nothing all early/mid game who beats everyone elses score by double or sometimes more. However he is no better than his teamates who have been scraping together everything they have to defend him yet have no where near his score because they haven't been saving up for an unbeatable army.
I am top 5 or so in my diamond 4v4 division and most of the people above me play in teams sometimes whereas all my matches are random. I can assure you that if you are good enough you WILL usually carry through those useless team mates. I would recommend that you work on complementing your allies better to improve your league. Even if they don't know what they are doing they'll be building something, and it's up to you to work out the best strategy to support them.
On January 13 2011 00:50 Geiko wrote: Source please ? (or it didn't happen)
Sorry no Source, but he is right. It is most notable during placement matches. It is more important what your score is than if you win or lose. You can get into gold with 4 losses.
I doubt that is true... And if it is, it's kind of stupid in my opinion. Score doesn't tell anything about how good you are. Some games i just like to have fun and go Pylon Pylon Nexus Nexus. Then my allies have to survive 3v4 while at the same time insulting me for not doing anything. I finaly push out with a control group of 3/3/3 carriers to end the game with twice as much point as anyone in the game... So the matchmaking system actualy thinks i did twice as good as my allies who had to survive a 3v4 ?
at 4:10 he explains that the matchmaking systems doesn't look at how well you played, just if you won or not.
Yeah it has nothing to do with how many points you score or your score ranking relative to the other players. The patch notes are pretty clear on this imo.
EDIT: this point has been beaten to death in other threads see Excalibur_Z's thread on league promotion..
For random i play primarily 2v2 for this reason... Atleast you can directly control 50% of your teams destiny.
To try to get out of silver 3's and 4's, you can get 1 arranged teammate and just search for 3v3 games or 2 arranged for 4v4. Still counts towards your random ladder but you have a guarantee that atleast some of your teammates won't blow, how I got diamond in 3's and 4's (then never played those ladders again). Then you can rank up and be with better players on average when you are 100% random teammates.
Edit: also, go into all random games with the mindset of "I'm going to win this game with or without my teammates my balls are so damn huge I laugh at these stupid posers on the other team, this sh*t isn't even fair for them it's gonna be such a massacre" Etc...
Also if your teammate gets cheesed by 6 pool or cannon or whatever macro up and counter the cheeser asap, typically it's just a base trade and the game is evened up.
Oh, also......silver 4v4/3v3 players are INCREDIBLY bad. I'm a silver 1 v 1er who dropped out of plat due to race switching, and when I finally decided to jump into 4 v 4, it put me against a bunch of silverish 4 v 4 players.....and omg, its just sad. I dominated 4 straight games in the placement, then lost the last to a diamond 1v1'er who was apparently just screwing around with some bad teamates. They build him crap, and he'd control everything...but anyways...
If you can't carry your team past a bunch of 4 v 4 silver players...then you deserve to be in 4 v 4 silver. I'm in plat now, and still run into the most terrible players imaginable. And I'm quite bad at 1 v 1. Not horrific, but i just do stupid crap all the time. But my 4 gate hits at 6 minutes 95% of the time, and that alone wins me half my games, lol.
Part of the problem is that there are so few truly horrible players in the queue, its too far from release date. Check the profiles after the game and you'll see that you frequently get matched against players two tiers higher than yours. In gold 3v3, more than half the time there are diamond players.
If you're 'stuck' in a league. Queue with a talented friend (or use the new chat channels to find someone), parties of 2 are allowed in a '3v3 random' and each person gets credit as solo 3v3 random rather than fixed 3v3 team. Then you will have a big advantage and should win more.
I did manage to carry and get 2v2 diamond and 3v3 diamond...but 4v4 is a different story.
My 4v4 random record is like 33-29 platinum league...And LITERALLY every single game I've won I have carried for the most part. There was even one game where I won 4v1 having like 6 stargates and 14 warpgates 2-3 robos and 2 gold expos and 3 of my teammates bases.
I don't know if MMR has anything to do with who you are randomly teamed with, but most of my friends that are platinum or lower usually get good teammates when they go random. Every time I've gone random I get terrible teammates, I check their records after and a lot of them are like practice league or only play team matches.
I understand that most players that play starcraft play very casually but personally I just get too frustrated when 10 minutes into the game my teammates don't even have warpgates up or an orbital.
If you're 'stuck' in a league. Queue with a talented friend (or use the new chat channels to find someone), parties of 2 are allowed in a '3v3 random' and each person gets credit as solo 3v3 random rather than fixed 3v3 team. Then you will have a big advantage and should win more.
Damn, that works? Cool, I'll give that a try.
I understand that most players that play starcraft play very casually but personally I just get too frustrated when 10 minutes into the game my teammates don't even have warpgates up or an orbital.
This happens to me a lot; I once got a teammate and asked him during the game when I checked his base, why he didn't have Warpgate-tech. He said: "Why? I only play with Robots." /facepalm.
Don`t blame your teammates for reacting wrong to what you wanted them to do, search for a way to make them react the right way.
Oh yeah, forgot about this one: Played a Random 3v3 once and my Terran ally was being attacked in the back of his base by cloaked Banshees. His OC had max energy and he had 20 Marines chilling at his front. It took almost a minute of constant pinging and messaging by my other ally and me to get him to move his Marines and scan.
Don`t blame your teammates for reacting wrong to what you wanted them to do, search for a way to make them react the right way.
Oh yeah, forgot about this one: Played a Random 3v3 once and my Terran ally was being attacked in the back of his base by cloaked Banshees. His OC had max energy and he had 20 Marines chilling at his front. It took almost a minute of constant pinging and messaging by my other ally and me to get him to move his Marines and scan.
I assume I get to blame my teammate then, right?
Hah, next time you should just get him to give you control and scan for him.
Attack at X time works well if everyone is kinda noobie. Playing RT is a lot more fun though if you just play it for laughs.
On January 13 2011 00:50 Geiko wrote: Source please ? (or it didn't happen)
Sorry no Source, but he is right. It is most notable during placement matches. It is more important what your score is than if you win or lose. You can get into gold with 4 losses.
I doubt that is true... And if it is, it's kind of stupid in my opinion. Score doesn't tell anything about how good you are. Some games i just like to have fun and go Pylon Pylon Nexus Nexus. Then my allies have to survive 3v4 while at the same time insulting me for not doing anything. I finaly push out with a control group of 3/3/3 carriers to end the game with twice as much point as anyone in the game... So the matchmaking system actualy thinks i did twice as good as my allies who had to survive a 3v4 ?
at 4:10 he explains that the matchmaking systems doesn't look at how well you played, just if you won or not.
The exact definition of strength can only be guessed at from the data at hand, but if the player is genuinely bad, their 2v2 RT score would be low enough that the end you arrive at is the same. In other words, to paraphrase Scott Adams you only think you disagree with me.
The worst part about random team games in 3s and 4s is that there are so many people in diamond who have just piggy-backed off their teammates to get there.
Well if u ask your teammates or 3 mins into game see what sort of build they are going then you can make an intelligent decision of if to expand, mass , rush ect,, but yes if you are near to promotion it does put you with quite weak players against players of around your level... i have gone from bronze to diamond in all team leagues and tbh sometimes ur randoms are gr8 but then sometimes they r nubs :p just so you know you CAN be promoted even after a loss if you can get you play well enough
Your best bet is to find a friend to queue with. I got to diamond in 4v4s by queuing with a friend, and even when our opponents were awful we were usually able to carry. Not saying we were anything amazing, but once I did this and got to 1200~ diamond I noticed that when I queue alone my teammates are(usually) much better now.
yesterday I played with 2 buddys AT3on3 (we are all just gold players in 1on1), and were only matched with teams consisting mostly of diamond, sometimes even masterleague and we won most games (we never cheese, just normal macro games)
3on3 / 4on4 is just for fun, most people suck or don't take it seriously, or like in a lot of cases just aren't very good team players.
EPT
