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TheBorg
Netherlands56 Posts
I can't give full instructions in the beginning of the game because when I do, I screw up my own build. (  ). Especially, seeing cannon rushes or 6pools happening to teammates, pinging the map and then getting a "What?"are very frustrating.Any ideas on how I can improve my teammates with minimal impact on my own build? Thanks in advance! | ||
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drooL
United Kingdom2108 Posts
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adius
United States249 Posts
On January 13 2011 00:25 TheBorg wrote: How I can improve my teammates Choose them ahead of time. Don't play RT for any reason other than the comedy, just don't do it. | ||
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Trib
Canada18 Posts
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lfusion
United States79 Posts
On January 13 2011 00:30 drooL wrote: is probably not going to happen. get better yourself and you will be able to carry most of the game on your own. then you will advance in rank and get better teammates etc. Do this. I got to diamond in 3v3 and 4v4 random because I always carried the team. The ranking for team games now check how you did in the game. You don't get penalized as much if your teammates rush for ultras on 1 base or if their preparation for a tier one rush is to go double stargate and have 1 stalker for defending. | ||
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Geiko
France1939 Posts
On January 13 2011 00:48 lfusion wrote: Do this. I got to diamond in 3v3 and 4v4 random because I always carried the team. The ranking for team games now check how you did in the game. You don't get penalized as much if your teammates rush for ultras on 1 base or if their preparation for a tier one rush is to go double stargate and have 1 stalker for defending. Source please ? (or it didn't happen) | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On January 13 2011 00:25 TheBorg wrote: Do not do that but try to make teamplay. While I am Silver in 1v1, I am Platinum in 4v4 (even was Diamond for some games, but then I switched over to random and soon got demoted.) Try to communicate with your team, leave the dumb guys alone who try their own thing and try to coordinate with the players who are willing to communicate.I'm stuck in Silver League for 3v3 and 4v4. I know I'm not a great player, but I have noticed a pattern, especially after losses: 80 - 90% of the time, I am either the best player in the game or the best player on my team. Now, rather than b*tch about that, I see it as my responsibility to try and make my teammates better. The question is: how do I do that? Don't teach them how to play. | ||
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Spammish
United Kingdom42 Posts
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
The other suggestion I have, that works for me, is announce your timing. For instance, If I go for a 4 gate, then I tell my allies, "at 6:20, my 4-gate will be ready, order your units to follow mine/give me control, and rally your buildings to my pylon". Then just go win the game for them. Of course, to do that, you physically have to be able to win the game. If all you can do is a-move, then you don't belong in higher leagues anyways. | ||
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andeh
United States904 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
The rest either 1. Name a unit they'll be massing 2. tell me they're rushing, cheesing or massing 3. Go mute. From there, you'll have to fill in the blanks. If he's massing, play early defense to help defend them. If he's cheesing, macro hard and expand fast and hope they don't push out. If he's rushing, equally rush with tier 1 units. That's my take on it. I'm mid Platinum in 3v3s, it's very hard to win sometimes. | ||
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ShadesTheOne
2 Posts
On January 13 2011 00:50 Geiko wrote: Source please ? (or it didn't happen) Sorry no Source, but he is right. It is most notable during placement matches. It is more important what your score is than if you win or lose. You can get into gold with 4 losses. | ||
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alepov
Netherlands1132 Posts
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Geiko
France1939 Posts
On January 13 2011 01:46 ShadesTheOne wrote: Sorry no Source, but he is right. It is most notable during placement matches. It is more important what your score is than if you win or lose. You can get into gold with 4 losses. I doubt that is true... And if it is, it's kind of stupid in my opinion. Score doesn't tell anything about how good you are. Some games i just like to have fun and go Pylon Pylon Nexus Nexus. Then my allies have to survive 3v4 while at the same time insulting me for not doing anything. I finaly push out with a control group of 3/3/3 carriers to end the game with twice as much point as anyone in the game... So the matchmaking system actualy thinks i did twice as good as my allies who had to survive a 3v4 ? | ||
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drteeth1
United States2 Posts
On January 13 2011 01:58 Geiko wrote: I doubt that is true... And if it is, it's kind of stupid in my opinion. Score doesn't tell anything about how good you are. Some games i just like to have fun and go Pylon Pylon Nexus Nexus. Then my allies have to survive 3v4 while at the same time insulting me for not doing anything. I finaly push out with a control group of 3/3/3 carriers to end the game with twice as much point as anyone in the game... So the matchmaking system actualy thinks i did twice as good as my allies who had to survive a 3v4 ? This was implemented in patch 1.1.2. Source: http://us.starcraft2.com/launcher/patch-notes.htm | ||
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Simberto
Germany11392 Posts
On January 13 2011 01:46 Torte de Lini wrote: I play 3v3 random teams and I feel your pain. The best way to get a sense of your allies is to ask for a plan. I think out of my 200 games (or so, I can't recall off-hand). Only one gave me an elaborate plan. The rest either 1. Name a unit they'll be massing 2. tell me they're rushing, cheesing or massing 3. Go mute. From there, you'll have to fill in the blanks. If he's massing, play early defense to help defend them. If he's cheesing, macro hard and expand fast and hope they don't push out. If he's rushing, equally rush with tier 1 units. That's my take on it. I'm mid Platinum in 3v3s, it's very hard to win sometimes. The most effective way to win i found was tell the other players a time. If you say something like "Attack at 6 minutes", mostly, all of your teammates will do something remotely intelligent and you have enough stuff to usually win. However, if you notice that your team consist mostly of 6-8poolers, something like nexus first and a large colossi stalker push usually work out fine. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 13 2011 02:04 Simberto wrote: The most effective way to win i found was tell the other players a time. If you say something like "Attack at 6 minutes", mostly, all of your teammates will do something remotely intelligent and you have enough stuff to usually win. However, if you notice that your team consist mostly of 6-8poolers, something like nexus first and a large colossi stalker push usually work out fine. Oh yes, that is great too. I hear a lot of "attack at 6 minutes" which really helps me and other plan their build and units suitably! | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
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TheBorg
Netherlands56 Posts
On January 13 2011 01:46 Torte de Lini wrote: I play 3v3 random teams and I feel your pain. [...] The rest either 1. Name a unit they'll be massing 2. tell me they're rushing, cheesing or massing 3. Go mute. From there, you'll have to fill in the blanks. If he's massing, play early defense to help defend them. If he's cheesing, macro hard and expand fast and hope they don't push out. If he's rushing, equally rush with tier 1 units. That's my take on it. I'm mid Platinum in 3v3s, it's very hard to win sometimes. Wow - I love the SC-community. So many responses already.  This is exactly what happens, someone says: "Going mass Roach" and I think to myself: how do you know that? You've not even scouted anything yet!! The "Attack at the X-minute mark" suggestion is really good: I've done that a couple of times and that seems to work pretty well, although it won't protect you agasint 6poolers/cannon rushers. I've devised a new scheme, though: I'm a Protoss-player, but I'm getting kinda bored with it. So I've decided to tinker with Zerg a bit and that's what I'm using my 3v3s and 4v4s for from now on... to learn Zerg. And obviously incorporate all of your suggestions. | ||
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Elean
689 Posts
On January 13 2011 00:25 TheBorg wrote: I'm stuck in Silver League for 3v3 and 4v4. I know I'm not a great player, but I have noticed a pattern, especially after losses: 80 - 90% of the time, I am either the best player in the game or the best player on my team. You think you are the best player. If you are in the sylver league, most of the time you will be one of the weakest player. If you want to improve, start asking yourself what you did wrong instead of blaming your allies. Asking "my allies suck, what an I Do", won't get you really far. And I doubt anyone can give you a useful answer. Post a couple of replay if you want to know what you could change. | ||
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n3mo
United States298 Posts
On January 13 2011 03:26 Elean wrote: You think you are the best player. If you are in the sylver league, most of the time you will be one of the weakest player. If you want to improve, start asking yourself what you did wrong instead of blaming your allies. Asking "my allies suck, what an I Do", won't get you really far. And I doubt anyone can give you a useful answer. Post a couple of replay if you want to know what you could change. nah, it can be pretty obvious. if you look at the score screen and your workers created, army value, units killed, etc. are double that of everyone else in the game, you are much better than them. when i scout, i let allies know whether it looks like a standard build or a rush build, and just call a time to attack accordingly. also, ping the map when you see enemy movement, just to let people know. | ||
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Geiko
France1939 Posts
On January 13 2011 02:02 drteeth1 wrote: This was implemented in patch 1.1.2. Source: http://us.starcraft2.com/launcher/patch-notes.htm are you refering to : "Adjusted the amount of points earned and lost by random team participants to properly reflect the strength of a player's teammates." ? Doesn't that just mean that you win or lose points depending your allys ratings ? (not ingame points) also : at 4:10 he explains that the matchmaking systems doesn't look at how well you played, just if you won or not. | ||
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Elean
689 Posts
On January 13 2011 03:33 n3mo wrote: nah, it can be pretty obvious. if you look at the score screen and your workers created, army value, units killed, etc. are double that of everyone else in the game, you are much better than them. What is obvious, is that if you judge it using the score screen, you have not the slightest clue of who did a mistake and who played well. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11392 Posts
On January 13 2011 03:59 Elean wrote: What is obvious, is that if you judge it using the score screen, you have not the slightest clue of who did a mistake and who played well. For example, if you are the one who gets 6-pooled by two zerg, and hold it off, chances are that you will still be far behind, at least as a zerg. Which will mean that you get very few points in the end, but still, you held of the cheese of two players, while your team could freely prepare for a later timing push. Also, i found Speedlings to be incredibly good for a push at around 6-7 minutes. You can just produce insane amounts of them, which tanks very good for your partners, gets surrounds on retreating stuff, or just kills all of the workers very fast if you get in somewhere. This obviously leaves you behind in tech, but your push should do significant damage, and with two hatches, you can switch to producing drones very fast if your push slows down. And, as always, ask what you can improve, since it is your rating, not the random teammates which you worry about. And your rating will consist mostly of your effect on the team, since you will be matched with a lot of different random guys. So don´t search for a way to blame your teammates, just improve your play and teamleading abilities, and your rating will also improve. Don`t blame your teammates for reacting wrong to what you wanted them to do, search for a way to make them react the right way. | ||
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murkk
Canada154 Posts
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Gitch
United Kingdom27 Posts
Also, often it's the guy who masses BC/carrier and contributes nothing all early/mid game who beats everyone elses score by double or sometimes more. However he is no better than his teamates who have been scraping together everything they have to defend him yet have no where near his score because they haven't been saving up for an unbeatable army. I am top 5 or so in my diamond 4v4 division and most of the people above me play in teams sometimes whereas all my matches are random. I can assure you that if you are good enough you WILL usually carry through those useless team mates. I would recommend that you work on complementing your allies better to improve your league. Even if they don't know what they are doing they'll be building something, and it's up to you to work out the best strategy to support them. | ||
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space_yes
United States548 Posts
On January 13 2011 03:39 Geiko wrote: are you refering to : "Adjusted the amount of points earned and lost by random team participants to properly reflect the strength of a player's teammates." ? Doesn't that just mean that you win or lose points depending your allys ratings ? (not ingame points) + Show Spoiler + at 4:10 he explains that the matchmaking systems doesn't look at how well you played, just if you won or not. Yeah it has nothing to do with how many points you score or your score ranking relative to the other players. The patch notes are pretty clear on this imo. EDIT: this point has been beaten to death in other threads see Excalibur_Z's thread on league promotion.. | ||
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Penatronic
150 Posts
To try to get out of silver 3's and 4's, you can get 1 arranged teammate and just search for 3v3 games or 2 arranged for 4v4. Still counts towards your random ladder but you have a guarantee that atleast some of your teammates won't blow, how I got diamond in 3's and 4's (then never played those ladders again). Then you can rank up and be with better players on average when you are 100% random teammates. Edit: also, go into all random games with the mindset of "I'm going to win this game with or without my teammates my balls are so damn huge I laugh at these stupid posers on the other team, this sh*t isn't even fair for them it's gonna be such a massacre" Etc... Also if your teammate gets cheesed by 6 pool or cannon or whatever macro up and counter the cheeser asap, typically it's just a base trade and the game is evened up. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
If you can't carry your team past a bunch of 4 v 4 silver players...then you deserve to be in 4 v 4 silver. I'm in plat now, and still run into the most terrible players imaginable. And I'm quite bad at 1 v 1. Not horrific, but i just do stupid crap all the time. But my 4 gate hits at 6 minutes 95% of the time, and that alone wins me half my games, lol. | ||
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Crankyhobo
United States12 Posts
If you're 'stuck' in a league. Queue with a talented friend (or use the new chat channels to find someone), parties of 2 are allowed in a '3v3 random' and each person gets credit as solo 3v3 random rather than fixed 3v3 team. Then you will have a big advantage and should win more. | ||
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Stefani Germanotta
6 Posts
I did manage to carry and get 2v2 diamond and 3v3 diamond...but 4v4 is a different story. My 4v4 random record is like 33-29 platinum league...And LITERALLY every single game I've won I have carried for the most part. There was even one game where I won 4v1 having like 6 stargates and 14 warpgates 2-3 robos and 2 gold expos and 3 of my teammates bases. I don't know if MMR has anything to do with who you are randomly teamed with, but most of my friends that are platinum or lower usually get good teammates when they go random. Every time I've gone random I get terrible teammates, I check their records after and a lot of them are like practice league or only play team matches. I understand that most players that play starcraft play very casually but personally I just get too frustrated when 10 minutes into the game my teammates don't even have warpgates up or an orbital. | ||
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TheBorg
Netherlands56 Posts
If you're 'stuck' in a league. Queue with a talented friend (or use the new chat channels to find someone), parties of 2 are allowed in a '3v3 random' and each person gets credit as solo 3v3 random rather than fixed 3v3 team. Then you will have a big advantage and should win more. Damn, that works? Cool, I'll give that a try. I understand that most players that play starcraft play very casually but personally I just get too frustrated when 10 minutes into the game my teammates don't even have warpgates up or an orbital. This happens to me a lot; I once got a teammate and asked him during the game when I checked his base, why he didn't have Warpgate-tech. He said: "Why? I only play with Robots." /facepalm. | ||
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TheBorg
Netherlands56 Posts
Don`t blame your teammates for reacting wrong to what you wanted them to do, search for a way to make them react the right way. Oh yeah, forgot about this one: Played a Random 3v3 once and my Terran ally was being attacked in the back of his base by cloaked Banshees. His OC had max energy and he had 20 Marines chilling at his front. It took almost a minute of constant pinging and messaging by my other ally and me to get him to move his Marines and scan. I assume I get to blame my teammate then, right?  | ||
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BenKen
United States860 Posts
On January 13 2011 06:37 TheBorg wrote: Oh yeah, forgot about this one: Played a Random 3v3 once and my Terran ally was being attacked in the back of his base by cloaked Banshees. His OC had max energy and he had 20 Marines chilling at his front. It took almost a minute of constant pinging and messaging by my other ally and me to get him to move his Marines and scan. I assume I get to blame my teammate then, right? Hah, next time you should just get him to give you control and scan for him. Attack at X time works well if everyone is kinda noobie. Playing RT is a lot more fun though if you just play it for laughs. | ||
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TheBorg
Netherlands56 Posts
Hah, next time you should just get him to give you control and scan for him. I don't think he would've found the Ally-menu, even if I had whacked him in the head with it. | ||
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drteeth1
United States2 Posts
On January 13 2011 03:39 Geiko wrote: are you refering to : "Adjusted the amount of points earned and lost by random team participants to properly reflect the strength of a player's teammates." ? Doesn't that just mean that you win or lose points depending your allys ratings ? (not ingame points) also : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpAWz18UcB8 at 4:10 he explains that the matchmaking systems doesn't look at how well you played, just if you won or not. The exact definition of strength can only be guessed at from the data at hand, but if the player is genuinely bad, their 2v2 RT score would be low enough that the end you arrive at is the same. In other words, to paraphrase Scott Adams you only think you disagree with me. | ||
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sNatch
United States93 Posts
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samboi
England69 Posts
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Nation_
United States111 Posts
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razorblade79
Germany79 Posts
3on3 / 4on4 is just for fun, most people suck or don't take it seriously, or like in a lot of cases just aren't very good team players. | ||
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Peter gibbons
1 Post
This does a few things which greatly increase your odds of winning: 1. 10 gating allows ample defense against 6 pools and other cheeses, common in 4v4. 2. Puts pressure on them, messing up their often macro oriented tech rushes, and scaring them into wasting resources on static defenses 3. Similar to 2, buys your random teammates some time to tech themselves, since everyone does in this division 4. Gives you an insanely early macro advantage, where I can throw down 3 or 4 gates and a robo to deal with most threats while pumping chronoed upgrades to set up my late game Obviously this strat doesnt work 100%, but it got me to 1 in my division. There are too many unknown variables when playing random 4v4, but early pressure into macro deals with most of them | ||
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29 fps
United States5721 Posts
communicate in the beginning about what you'll be doing, and when you scout, tell everyone what you see. fast pool? get that wall done quickly, teammate. 2 gates? get ready for mass zlots/early rush (check again later to confirm). forge? watch out for cannons! | ||
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vahgar.r24
India465 Posts
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Phantom_Sky
Hong Kong512 Posts
In general for 3v3, rushing have a much higher chance of success, as if you can co-ordinate your team and go at the same time, chances is that one of the opponent has no t1 army or their armies are not together, adding all the chances together, your chances of beating them are quite high, as someone has pointed out above, attacking at like 5 min or 6 min is a good idea, if you can get one of them killed, no matter how screwed up your allies are, you are running on 3-2, just tech up, macro and you would win no matter what for 4v4, rushing may not be the best idea, as even you get one killed, you are so far behind in tech/ macro, you may not have a high chance of success, usually a bit early pressure for map control, then macro / techup would win you the game And if you think you are much better than the rest of the players, you can go play hero mode 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 4, usually involve some tech, like super fast DT/ Banshee or go for super late game liker 10 carriers, 200/200 mech, 50 muta, quite fun if can pull that off and indeed feel like a boss | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
Try this sometime. DT rush into archon toilet. Basically you rush DTs off 3 or 4 gates. While your first wave of DTs hits, you drop an expo, and stargate. As soon as your expo is up, drop 3 or four more warp gates and a fleet beacon. Start warping in DTs and morph them into archons, spending excess minerals on zealots, for which you research charge. Forge upgrade to +3 attack. Get a mothership as soon as your requisite buildings are done, so it can save up energy. From there, get as many zealots and archons as you feel necessary. Once you have 10-15 or so archons(and about 20 zealots), you have one free enemy army at your disposal, as pretty much nothing your opponents can have at that time will counter you even without mothership, and when you vortex and archon toilet them, plus having a bunch of cloaked archons, you'll rape something for almost no cost to yourself. +3 archons are RIDICULOUS. For more lulz, wait until your opponents move out, while you sneak your mothership around back(preferably scouting ahead with a phoenix), then mass recall your 20 archons and 40 zealots into your opponents main, preferably a multiple base main. Lulz WILL be had. Nothing quite like the archon toilet to make you opponents say wtf. i have a game where I lost, but when you look at one opponents army score on the graph, his army literally goes from the very top of the graph to the very bottom in a single straight line. LOLOL. | ||
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Neo.NEt
United States785 Posts
2) If you really are the best person in most of your 3v3's, then you'll win more often than not and you'll get promoted. I don't know how many games you've played, but it's easy to get unlucky 3 or 4 times in a row and think that something is wrong. Play more games, and if you are really the best one there you're team will win. If you put a superior player in silver league, he'll roll through them like they're not even there as long as his teammates are somewhat competent. In the long run, there is no "luck" with getting good teammates. I know a guy who swears he ALWAYS gets the worst teammates but if you watch his games from an unbiased view... he's obviously delusional. Don't let it get to that point. Edit: This is actually the important part When one of your teammates says they are going banshees and the other says tanks, don't try to talk them out of it. They'll just end up getting pissed off and if you're in silver, they might even just try to sabotage the game. Most won't do that, but they are probably going to do what they want no matter what. You know those guys aren't getting anything that can hit air, so you better be sure that you get units that are good against air. Find out what your teammates are doing and react to that, b/c you can't assume your teammates are smart enough to do that (which they probably aren't). | ||
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brystmar
United States26 Posts
On January 13 2011 02:04 Simberto wrote: The most effective way to win i found was tell the other players a time. If you say something like "Attack at 6 minutes", mostly, all of your teammates will do something remotely intelligent and you have enough stuff to usually win. However, if you notice that your team consist mostly of 6-8poolers, something like nexus first and a large colossi stalker push usually work out fine. Tried this the other day in a random 2v2 (I'm only in gold) where we spawned as TT. Here's how it went: me: "I'm attacking with marines & marauders between the 6 and 7min mark" him: "lol how do I know what time it is?" me: "There's a clock above the mini-map, bottom left corner" him: "ummmm I don't see a clock there" me: "well just build a bunch of marines ok?" him: "ok" So ~6:30 I've got my MM ready to go, I ask if he's ready. "Not yet." I check his base and discover he's built 7 supply depots and is just beginning his first barracks. *facepalm* | ||
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Neo.NEt
United States785 Posts
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