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[D] The power of extra Orbital Commands

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
roymarthyup
Profile Joined April 2010
1442 Posts
January 03 2011 20:16 GMT
#1

some information before the discussion

An orbital command costs 550 minerals and provides 11 supply and energy for scan/mule/calldown/ and has 1500 health with liftoff option and it takes a lot of space in your base to land and be functional

A supply depot costs 100 minerals and provides 8 supply, this comes out to roughly 12.5 minerals per supply.

A mule provides the income of 6 scv's on minerals and a command center can permanently have a mule if using all its energy on mules. I think multiple mules can actually mine from the same mineral patch they just prefer not to. Mules do not suffer from normal SCV saturation diminishing returns.

6 SCV's cost 300 minerals and takes 102 seconds to build
An orbital command takes 135 seconds to build
A orbital provides 11 supply and by depot standards 1 supply is worth 12.5 minerals, So if you subtract from the cost of an orbital its supply minerals you get a true cost of the orbital command at 550 - 137.5 (11x12.5) = 412.15


Because mules do not suffer from saturation diminishing returns, that means for 412 minerals you essentially get 6 scv's from an orbital but these SCV's are just as good as fresh ones without diminishing returns. These scv's cost 112 more and takes 33 more seconds to make than normal however because of diminishing returns those 6 orbital SCV's are more powerful than the 6 you add from 17 to 23 on your mainbase minerals. And if you are already saturated they allow you to keep adding fresh SCV's to your first base without diminishing return problems.

Another benefit of orbital SCV's is that they can mine without diminishing returns on 6 or 7 mineral patch bases where normal SCV's will suffer in those circumstances greatly.

It comes out to 68.75 (or 69) minerals per orbital SCV when you consider an orbital SCV is 1/6 of a mule and the mule has a cost of 412.5 so 412.5/6 = 68.75 when you do the math and normal SCV's cost 50 minerals.

Also orbitals can be used to calldown supplies on your depots which essentially for energy gives you a free 100 minerals (a free depot) this can be used in anticipation when you think your bases are about to be mined out faster.

So the thought process going into your mind when making orbitals to improve your income should be this:

normal SCV's cost 50 minerals and suffer from diminishing returns when there are less mineral patches available or when a base is fully saturated, Orbital SCV's cost 69 minerals or essentially 70 meaning they are more expensive by 20 minerals but can also be used in your bases past saturation for full effect.

With these statistics in mind i think a terran making a few extra orbitals by lategame and having less SCV's on minerals (using them for gas example) is a good idea. The orbitals would allow the terran to have a larger 200food army while still having good income
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
January 03 2011 20:26 GMT
#2
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173703
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173586

Has been discussed to death.
I think esports is pretty nice.
Slivered Skin
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada347 Posts
January 03 2011 20:27 GMT
#3
The 4OC Push thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173703
Viability of Extra OCs: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159404
Extra OCs: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158199
Mass OCs: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152474
5-6 OCs in Lategame: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=132554
Extra OC Without Expanding: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117581
Spamming OCs: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=116335

I think that sums it up rather well.
Those most oft mated find love’s motive in a word: inebriated - Get well Violet!! And sC!! T_T
Raneth
Profile Joined December 2009
England527 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-03 20:29:45
January 03 2011 20:27 GMT
#4
Im glad to see more people are realising this, but i believe there is already a thread on this exact topic, and indeed thread with a build order designed around having 4 oc's on two bases

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173703
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173586

edit: ah, beaten to the punch i see
tom: "dont you mean TWO g keys???" kwark: "nah, i'll probably just press it twice"
TomWij
Profile Joined December 2010
Belgium6 Posts
January 03 2011 20:33 GMT
#5
I think multiple mules can actually mine from the same mineral patch they just prefer not to.

is true, read

MULEs can mine over other SCVs/MULEs thus providing extra income on expansions that are already saturated

from http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MULE which is why you can oversaturate a mineral line.

The same article says this about stacking:

MULEs can mine a mineral patch even if an SCV is mining from it at the same time. They will spread out to un-MULE'd nodes, until all nearby patches are occupied, and only then will they stack with other MULEs.
Jaime
Profile Joined April 2010
United States213 Posts
January 04 2011 00:17 GMT
#6
On January 04 2011 05:33 TomWij wrote:
Show nested quote +
MULEs can mine a mineral patch even if an SCV is mining from it at the same time. They will spread out to un-MULE'd nodes, until all nearby patches are occupied, and only then will they stack with other MULEs.


I fixed that since it isn't true, MULEs can't mine at a mineral patch where another MULE is mining.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
January 04 2011 00:22 GMT
#7
On January 04 2011 09:17 Jaime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2011 05:33 TomWij wrote:
MULEs can mine a mineral patch even if an SCV is mining from it at the same time. They will spread out to un-MULE'd nodes, until all nearby patches are occupied, and only then will they stack with other MULEs.


I fixed that since it isn't true, MULEs can't mine at a mineral patch where another MULE is mining.



Yes they can, the AI just will refuse to do it the first time. If there is a mule on a patch already it will go to the next closest patch with the least # of mules on it already.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
BritishBeef
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom372 Posts
January 04 2011 00:26 GMT
#8
They will not mine at the Same time on the Same patch but in the end it works just like a scv that takes longer to gather...

iv seen in the late game a terrran call down 24 mules to a mineral patch.. it doesnt mean only 8 will mine .. Just only 8 at the same time like scv!
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
January 04 2011 00:40 GMT
#9
On January 04 2011 09:26 BritishBeef wrote:
They will not mine at the Same time on the Same patch but in the end it works just like a scv that takes longer to gather...

iv seen in the late game a terrran call down 24 mules to a mineral patch.. it doesnt mean only 8 will mine .. Just only 8 at the same time like scv!


You are wrong. Test it out yourself. They will stack on top of each other and mine at the same time.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Jaime
Profile Joined April 2010
United States213 Posts
January 04 2011 00:42 GMT
#10
On January 04 2011 09:40 darmousseh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2011 09:26 BritishBeef wrote:
They will not mine at the Same time on the Same patch but in the end it works just like a scv that takes longer to gather...

iv seen in the late game a terrran call down 24 mules to a mineral patch.. it doesnt mean only 8 will mine .. Just only 8 at the same time like scv!


You are wrong. Test it out yourself. They will stack on top of each other and mine at the same time.


I did and they don't, even tried forcing them to mine from the same patch at the same time.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Veasel
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden159 Posts
January 04 2011 00:45 GMT
#11
I dont know if you are crazy or just in silver leage but lets be realistic.. When do you feel you have this much money to spend without actually losing the game?

Sure if im 5 basing v 3 base i can do these things as a fun thing but in any other way i dont see it neccesary at all
Rest in Piece
heyyouyesyou
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States323 Posts
January 04 2011 00:49 GMT
#12
On January 04 2011 09:45 Veasel wrote:
I dont know if you are crazy or just in silver leage but lets be realistic.. When do you feel you have this much money to spend without actually losing the game?

Sure if im 5 basing v 3 base i can do these things as a fun thing but in any other way i dont see it neccesary at all


Not true at all. Any mass OC build starts with a 2rax expand which to the zerg will look like an allin or pressure expand. 4OC build is sick and can shut down the zerg with proper micro.
biomech!
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