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Orbitals are almost exclusively used for harvesting. I never see anyone building Orbitals at a place they can't mine, but I think this might be a mistake.
At 550 minerals, an orbital costs a lot. When we consider that they provide 11 supply, we can deduct 137 minerals from the supply depots that we would've needed to build. The cost is also mitigated by MULEs. The extra scans that you get by having an extra orbital or two is a very large advantage.
It seems to me that getting an extra orbital command in the mid to late game is a very good idea. Clearly the orbital is an investment that just takes a little bit of time to payoff. Maybe multiple orbitals is something that will change how Terrans play like multiple hatch changed how Zerg was played in SC1.
What do people think about this idea? I've yet to try it in ladder, so I'm not sure if you can get away with dropping 550 minerals like that.
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Terran players already build their CC+Orbital long before they expo depending on the situation (sometimes it's not safe to float it down to their natural). I can't imagine that building an orbital without a reasonable plan to float it to an expo would be a good idea, though.
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I guess it would be appropriate to say that you forgot to factor in mining time, compared to the supply depot and the command center its about double the mining time lost between the two, I think.
I guess it could be a viable strategy especially in the late game, seeing as three mules equals about eighteen SCV's I think, so I *guess* you could just kill off your mining SCV's and keep the ones on gas when you are in LATE LATE game but even then its that much more micro on your hands.
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4xx minerals is a lot and hurts your army significantly until it pays off. plus, when you have those minerals to spare, why not make a real expansion instead? on many maps what holds you back from expanding is not primarily that you couldn't defend another base but that you don't want to cut your army by 400 minerals at that point. there are exceptions to this, of course, but that's a big part of the reasoning imo.
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I think the biggest reason you don't see this is that once you get the OC up, you might as well fly it to the expansion and transfer SCVs for a massive boost in harvesting. The OC can still fly, unlike the PF, which is why you see supplementary PFs but not OCs.
I don't think the micro from extra OCs would be too much, it's still probably far easier than all the stuff zerg has to remember, for example, and you can always spam MULEs if you stock up too much energy.
I would like to see someone try this out in some upper diamond games and post a few replays. It could be a viable way to mine golds or islands without needing to invest SCVs.
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What got me thinking about this was a mass raven strategy I was working on. The thing is that you have a ton of minerals because ravens are so gas heavy. I put up a few extra CC and turned them into orbitals. Suddenly I could scan almost constantly and I always knew exactly what was going on. Combine this knowledge with good harassment and your opponent is in trouble.
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I have images of building 5 OCs, floating one to an idland/distant expo, immediately dropping 20 mules, then lifting off again when the mules expire. The enemy gets about 1 minute to scout and kill it, or you earn 4k minerals. Then you return every few minutes when energy fills up. Imagine his surprise when he finds a mined out expo that, to his knowledge, has never seen a command center =]]
not that this makes it good, but I guess a note is that if you use the extra supplies calldown, you will have profited after a total of 250 energy. MULE gets your money faster, but it also mines your bases out faster.
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It isn't necessarily viable, but it does tend to happen in larger games.
Normally you will end up with at least two orbitals in a normal game, but in team games or ffa you can end up with quite a few more.
I have mined an island using only mules in team games before (generally you have 4 about oc total for that) and my FFA strategy involves suiciding all my scvs and using 5-10 OC to mine and scan.
Free for alls generally require a lot of slow turtling as making any fast moves can leave you vulnerable to other players. Having near unlimited scans and the extra supply is a big deal very late game when you need to know whats going on.
So this is kinda a valid strategy but only in less serious build orders or game types.
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I've seen a pro terran player open with a giant 5 rax timing push, but delaying the push just alil bit to put up an early OC for this very purpose.
The terran, off 1 base with 2 OCS, can power SCVs and spam mules, thus making his 5 rax push that much more effective. However, one has to eventually lift off the OC to an expo or the economical gain would be logistic. (logistic meaning it levels off after a point)
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On October 10 2010 11:42 TurtlePerson2 wrote:
What got me thinking about this was a mass raven strategy I was working on. The thing is that you have a ton of minerals because ravens are so gas heavy. I put up a few extra CC and turned them into orbitals. Suddenly I could scan almost constantly and I always knew exactly what was going on. Combine this knowledge with good harassment and your opponent is in trouble.
haha what about combining your ravens with your OCs for 1-minute MULE mining defended by autoturrets? That way, even if he DOES see you, you only risk the OC and possibly some raven energy. Pffffft, who needs SCVs and units?
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On October 10 2010 11:50 Keilah wrote:
I have images of building 5 OCs, floating one to an idland/distant expo, immediately dropping 20 mules, then lifting off again when the mules expire. The enemy gets about 1 minute to scout and kill it, or you earn 4k minerals. Then you return every few minutes when energy fills up. Imagine his surprise when he finds a mined out expo that, to his knowledge, has never seen a command center =]]
not that this makes it good, but I guess a note is that if you use the extra supplies calldown, you will have profited after a total of 250 energy. MULE gets your money faster, but it also mines your bases out faster.
Lmao. (recent IEM tournament spoilers)
+ Show Spoiler +I picture HuK after his last round of games at the IEM season V agianst QXC. He lost 2 games because he simply did not scout his opponents expo. At the end of every match he would see, to his horror, a mined out expo.
Now imagine after this psychological trauma, he plays against a mass OC strategy. Even though he periodically scouts every expo and sees no base, the minerals continue to be mined out over the course of the match. At this point he loses it and quits progaming.
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@ OP
Here is a very low skill (upper platinum) replay of me doing something like this. After getting walled up in my base by banelings, and losing most of my workers, I needed SCVs fast. I cancelled what units I was training and put up another OC. I kept that OC in my base for 4 or 5 mins, just producing SCVs and mules, until I felt comfortable to move out and eventually win. It was pretty epic.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-156231.jpg)
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The economics of StarCraft 2 is a very interesting study. The mineral advantage of most Terrans gives an opportunity for more Marines and Hellions which I have used to win games when my opponent went with Battlecruisers. I wiped out his entire base and he had 4 BCs before he could take down my base plus expansion. I think the mineral strategy needs to be explored more by Terrans. I think the game developers want Terrans to take advantage of mineral based strategies.
Mineral only items: Supply Depots, Barracks, Bunkers, Command Centers, and Orbital Commands. It would only make sense to make a mineral heavy army with gas banked later for factory or starport units.
Ancient Persian is rumored to have a 1 million man army.
Rome is thought to have had a 500,000 man army
Assyrian Army had up to a 300,000 man army.
Ancient Greece had a 150,000–250,000 man army.
Out marine your opponents with overwhelming manpower. HeroMarine uses marines effectively but someone might be able to build off of his strategy. With 18 sec for two marines, if you can get some super mining going who could stop you?
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Personnally, I play mech in every matchup usually with a fast 3CC build, so I get to spend all the ressources I get pretty efficiently since the units cost so much. Once I am maxed, I just lay down command centers in base then I turn them into orbitals and try to secure extra expos even if I'm not sure I can defend them. If they attack the expand and kill it, fine. If they don't see it, I get ahead.
I think it's pretty common when you're maxed as Terran to start putting down extra CC for orbitals. But I think it's still more in the perspective of flying them eventually to expo location.
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On December 25 2020 12:50 DBPimpin wrote:
The economics of StarCraft 2 is a very interesting study. The mineral advantage of most Terrans gives an opportunity for more Marines and Hellions which I have used to win games when my opponent went with Battlecruisers. I wiped out his entire base and he had 4 BCs before he could take down my base plus expansion. I think the mineral strategy needs to be explored more by Terrans. I think the game developers want Terrans to take advantage of mineral based strategies.
Mineral only items: Supply Depots, Barracks, Bunkers, Command Centers, and Orbital Commands. It would only make sense to make a mineral heavy army with gas banked later for factory or starport units.
Ancient Persian is rumored to have a 1 million man army.
Rome is thought to have had a 500,000 man army
Assyrian Army had up to a 300,000 man army.
Ancient Greece had a 150,000–250,000 man army.
Out marine your opponents with overwhelming manpower. HeroMarine uses marines effectively but someone might be able to build off of his strategy. With 18 sec for two marines, if you can get some super mining going who could stop you?
You join TL to post in a ten year old thread? Big respect yo
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EPT
