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Heyhey, So a bit of a backstory I just recently got back into SC2 on my brothers account MERLIN (I play all the 1v1's) and I've been noticing terran users saying that mech play is not as strong as it was TVP as it was in Sc1 so they opt for heavy infantry builds, so I started going mech.
A few things I've noticed... People are generally wrong (Atleast for Diamond league which is where I ranked in after about 160ish games (91-65) and for last few TVP's I've been going Banshee into mech, and generally I've crushed my opponents by a score double there own. I don't have any general builds, because I'm 4 years back from SC1 but the general knowledge is there.
Build is basically
Orbital command start, going
10 supply
11 barracks
11 gas
as barracks finishes 1 marine 1 scv, then first 150 orbital
After that u dont add tech onto barracks (continue marine-scv production till 8-10 marines and dont stop scvs  obviously) first 100gas u get factory
100% factory u get 1 hellion and start starport
100% hellion u make addon (tech lab)
100% starport u land on factory tech lab switch spots and make reactor on factory and pump hellions. after 2 hellions umake tech lab on barracks. After 4 hellions (making 5 total) u lift factory to barracks land it on tech and make tanks with seige)
All of this is done while making depos and such, you expand whenever ur first 400 minerals comes (dont cut anything to get it, it will come eventually)
Then u just generally harass with cloak bansheès and hellions and continue to keep map control while expanding and keeping ur supply up. IF you see large force, u bunk up ur ramp and if u see none u just keep map control with hellions on towers and such. Try a drop of them, do whatever u can till you can mass produce tanks
So now u get around 120 food u move out I prefer to make cc in base and float it as long as its close by, and its simple, u just move out till u hit ur third seiging along the way and place around 10 supply depos infront of ur army and turrets where u see fit and camp up some (because the first half of the game was generally u harassing its time for u to sit on ur lead and not throw it away by trying to kill ur injured opponent) BUT THIS requires map control becauuse if he flanks ur army into ur base ur dead so u need to be aware enough to see his army moving right if u went left and unseiging and moving back into a line. MAP CONTROL IS KEY (that and having fun)
If he attacks ur third chances are he will just have stalkers immortals collossi and zealots (Sentries included) and ur tanks will be sieged and behind covor and u destroy his army easily.
What I tried to do was take the basic (Camp) style of terran SC1 gave us and put in fast harass using terrans new units and control it using them also giving me an advantage to sit and grow on.
So I was going to put a replay in, but I dont know how (newbie right here at the site) anyone who can tell me how please do because i cant go into starcraft 2 files and get map and upload (which is what i did with sc1)
Key things,
Turrets and zelnaga towers are key as are the motion towers (these are my favorite things for terran and highly unfair imo if u hide a few over the map in secluded spots u can literally see almost the entire maps movement)
Map control early is IMPORTANT
Harass must dmg him (cloak before u start harassing for max effect becasue its usually still surprsing)
FLAWS WITH BUILD
Money tends to jump really high and ur gas is always low... somegames I have 3k minerals 100 gas 200 gas. This is because obviously the number of mulesand mineral lines to the 4 to 6 gysers u have
Bad scouting will kill you. At anypoint you can alter this type of build into anything, whcih is nice too.
I hope you enjoy this thread, give me your opinions dislikes likes. MAIN THING IS, I am NOT saying I know more then anyone whos about to post or just reading. I AM just saying that this is MY opinion, so do not flame for the sake of flaming. I enjoy comments, critics and all I just want opinions.
Gogo SC2: D
MERLINS BEARD
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Yea like the 1-1-1 banshee expand Goody does?
Goody is a well know terran whos known as the only terran to go mech vs terran.
Download his replay pack he does banshee expand or 1-1-1 marauder tank viking
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just watch some of the tvp games from qxc´s latest replay pack which he released yesterday, it shows a very interesting new style where he opens with banshee harass and then transitions straight into marine/thor/banshee play with a raven or 2 and quite directly sets himself up towards bcs in case the game drags on. ofc he gets some vikings aswell if the opponent goes air or colossi.
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be careful of fast voidrays.
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On December 26 2010 10:34 Black Gun wrote:
just watch some of the tvp games from qxc´s latest replay pack which he released yesterday, it shows a very interesting new style where he opens with banshee harass and then transitions straight into marine/thor/banshee play with a raven or 2 and quite directly sets himself up towards bcs in case the game drags on. ofc he gets some vikings aswell if the opponent goes air or colossi.
Isn't that the same build that PainUser does? It sounds pretty familiar and I've been watching PainUser's stream
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Sweden164 Posts
You talk about "sitting on your lead" which you have gained through the early game harrass. What if you don't get this early lead? Most P in the higher levels of play are able to defend hellion harrass quite easily, and even though banshee harrass can do some damage sometimes, it's not something certain. Since you get your expansion "whenever you get 400 minerals" I dont know exactly when it's constructed, but it seems to be rather late since you get 1-1-1 and quite a lot of units before it (banshees, 5 hellions, tanks, 8 -10 marines, etc.)
So from my point of view you don't really need those early hellions nor so many marines. I'd rather make just 1 or possibly 2 hellions for scouting and cut marines until I've started my expansion.
The other thing i reacted on is the map control part. You say that you must have map control in order for this to work. That's usually the biggest problem with mech. Since it is such an immobile army, you usually never really have the map control. However on most maps you can defend both your third and natural simultaneously with tanks and a PF on your third. Hence I don't think map control is as important as you say.
You say that you usually have very much minerals which is understandable whenever playing mech. Maybe you should just invest in another (or first) reactor factory for some more hellion heavy play (since you stated you already have the minerals). They pretty much force the P to go less zealot heavy as well meaning more stalkers and less gas for higher tech. And they provide a decent meat shield and excellent scouts/harrassers. (If you already use hellions in late game you probably have too few reactor factories!)
I personally play as far away from mech possible but that's just a personal preference. Lately people have been going more and more tank heavy against protoss and I enjoy watching those kind of games and it seems as if it's getting more and more viable.
Good luck!
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When I play vs T in ladder I'll generally 2gate voidray push with 5 stalkers / 2rays, followed up with a safety robo and another gate, I'm 100% sure it would consistently crush this type of build. When i play more standard the first hint i have at 8 marines camping a ramp is generally gg for my opponent because i'll usually pump out a couple obs and transition into an expo 6 gate with a slightly later robobay. I'm confident in my PvT generally but if my opponent did what you described to the dot i would feel like he gave me a win
I have trouble vs T it usually is very micro reliant for me because i favor voidray play but reading OP i really don't feel like i would be playing under any pressure, except maybe on xel naga where well micro'd hellions can be stressful especially when mixed with banshees, but when i do any stalker push i describe i generally(always) keep a sentry at my base to ff any nastiness as my warp in cycles cool down, obviously i make plenty of mistakes but the build you describe makes me feel like i couldn't be punished for mistakes i make, because the one mistake that i DO NOT make against terran is forgetting a Robo for cloak
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where can i download qxs replaypack u mentioned?
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On December 26 2010 10:37 marine63 wrote:
be careful of fast voidrays.
I do a similar mech build voidrays usually don't cause as many problems as you would think. As you get alot marines so your barracks can always make stuff and if neccacery you got a starport for banshees you could always make an emergency viking. (However i get the starport for the raven ^_^)
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Extra Minerals can be used For OC and Turret Spam. or PF Spaming
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Why do people go hellion tank thor. Go fucking marine tank thor. You still can add hellions for drops/harass but marines is something you have to build in every match up, you can still count it as mech but it's waaaaay better than hellion tank thor. tt
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guys please tell me where i can find qxs replayspack =((((((((((((
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I'm with outlaw, furthermore im confused by a build that deliberately has tons of extra minerals
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On December 26 2010 11:47 OutlaW- wrote:
Why do people go hellion tank thor. Go fucking marine tank thor. You still can add hellions for drops/harass but marines is something you have to build in every match up, you can still count it as mech but it's waaaaay better than hellion tank thor. tt
Hellion do hit a critical mass at ~30
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The build doesnt deliberately have tons of minerals, if i knew how to upload a replay i would to show you. The 5 hellions are key because after the 3 banshees i pop out i get 1 dropship and use that to harass, also they keep both towers covered plus 2 patrolling maps for expo. CC doesnt come very late at all, it just sounded like it because like I said I dunno how to word it correctly. It has a lot of kinks but like I said its working. Gah I just wish I could upload replays!
Thank you for the comments btw, appreciate them
MERLIN
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I can see a decent sized army of stalkers/chargelots/immortals eating this build alive. Chargelots/immortals eat the tanks alive and the immortals/stalkers have little trouble against hellions. The only problem I can see for toss against this is if he doesn't have enough stalkers to deal with the banshees. Map control is also a major problem since your hellions/banshees are the only units capable of keeping that map control but both are murdered by stalkers.
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something im sure you already know but it hasnt come up until moriarity's post, an army of stalkers chargelots and immortals would not specificaly eat this build up, an army AT ALL on the offensive would eat this build up with good macro, banshee and hellion drops have one fatal flaw in common, vs a responsive P they are shut down in a single warp in cycle of stalkers, obviously there are tons of exceptions but banshee's and hellions unlike mutalisks don't force the Protoss player into a defensive stance, only the bad protoss players, we can still push with our army and win the game while defending a harass with simple macro. obviously it isnt always that easy but you get the idea, i feel like you have good ideas but nothing solid enough to combat good play
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On December 26 2010 12:16 Moriarity wrote:
I can see a decent sized army of stalkers/chargelots/immortals eating this build alive. Chargelots/immortals eat the tanks alive and the immortals/stalkers have little trouble against hellions. The only problem I can see for toss against this is if he doesn't have enough stalkers to deal with the banshees. Map control is also a major problem since your hellions/banshees are the only units capable of keeping that map control but both are murdered by stalkers.
Blue flame hellions would be targeting the zealots though? >.>
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Canada1637 Posts
On December 26 2010 10:34 Black Gun wrote:
just watch some of the tvp games from qxc´s latest replay pack which he released yesterday, it shows a very interesting new style where he opens with banshee harass and then transitions straight into marine/thor/banshee play with a raven or 2 and quite directly sets himself up towards bcs in case the game drags on. ofc he gets some vikings aswell if the opponent goes air or colossi.
Any specific replays you can point out? Specifically of BC usage, and BCs being used when the game is not already drastically 1 sided?
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On December 26 2010 10:34 Black Gun wrote:
just watch some of the tvp games from qxc´s latest replay pack which he released yesterday, it shows a very interesting new style where he opens with banshee harass and then transitions straight into marine/thor/banshee play with a raven or 2 and quite directly sets himself up towards bcs in case the game drags on. ofc he gets some vikings aswell if the opponent goes air or colossi.
Link please? In the latest one from the Root Gaming HP he loses 90% of the time in lategame even if he enters it with a significant advantage.
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With a mainly tank army, how do you deal with immortals? Ghosts?
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Someone suggesting to add rines in stead of hellions. Rines melt against storm 
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On December 26 2010 22:47 Dente wrote:Someone suggesting to add rines in stead of hellions. Rines melt against storm Everything melts against storm though.
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I may be wrong because i haven't experienced this build yet but would't it just loose to early-beta style first immortal push? (supporting stalker take care of both marines and helions with no marauder support or stim and immortal crushes tank if it gets out in time)
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bionic > mech or bio
the black or white mech builds from BW are long gone.
p.s. storm damage is easily cancelled out by EMP... just make sure your units are shooting with very minimal time running and not running around like headless chicken being useless.
storm is also friendly fire, so stop-move your way into the protoss ball and fight to the death.
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imo mech only is horrible against a good protoss as chargelots+immortals eat any siege line. hellions are also pretty useless as zealot speed locks down any advantage could've provided.
ive been using tanks successfully in TvP only by doing a contain with marines in bunkers.
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Full Mech is useless because you need
1) Anti Air
2) Anti Immortal= Ghosts
3) Fodder for Zealots
Marine Tank Viking Works because Marines cover these 3 neccesities, while Vikings and Tanks take out the AOE that would ruin your Rines.
Not that Hellions are bad, but they only work as Zealot Fodder and they do a crap job at it. Their still good for harass though
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the best style tvp that has had a lot of success with me imo is the 1 1 1 with heavy bio and banshee harass while transitioning into thors + add some ravens/vikings depending on toss composition. Mech is just so weak against numerous amounts of toss composition. All they need to do is macro.
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On December 27 2010 00:38 GinDo wrote:
Full Mech is useless because you need
1) Anti Air
2) Anti Immortal= Ghosts
3) Fodder for Zealots
Marine Tank Viking Works because Marines cover these 3 neccesities, while Vikings and Tanks take out the AOE that would ruin your Rines.
Not that Hellions are bad, but they only work as Zealot Fodder and they do a crap job at it. Their still good for harass though
1) Scout stargate -> make vikings + 2 rax marines
2) You suprisingly don't need ghosts to beat immortals with mech. Either you can make thors with strike cannon(1 shots immortals) or you can just unsiege youre tanks if he's basically pure immortal zealot. unsieged tanks with hellions to eat shields will out dps immortal/zealot, plus your tanks wont kill any of your own units by accident 
3) blue flame hellions kill zealots in 5 shots. with the initial round of tank fire + hellion splash, zealots usually die within the first tank volley.
I really hate when people say mech isnt viable when they havent even tried very hard to make it work. I play mech vs protoss pretty much exclusively and I win a normal proportion of my games at 2500 diamond level. It relies on good build orders, scouting, positioning and timing to pull off, but you can do it.
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I think people shouldn't put down Mech or any strategy really for not working because I've noticed that in SC2 everything is so flavorful compared to BW that there is no REAL standards (yet). Like even the pros don't always stick to marauder massing in TvP or marine/tank in TvZ. There's been replays of Korean Terrans massing almost nothing but Ravens and winning against pro-team Zerg's.
I think it's very dumb for players to say, no going mech is bad it sucks i can't do it. yeah maybe it sucks for YOU but not for others. If you really are good at just fast quick gameplay and ending the game before the 15 min macro mark then you really should stick with trick banshees and Bio massing type things.
If you're a very patient macro player i think the slow play will always suite you. This game is so revolved around stylistic play that it goes way beyond how each race plays each matchup and more too how each player plays each matchup.
A lot of the famous European T players prefer Biomech. Debo on his stream a lot of the time goes 1 base banshee/marine and only expands when he deems it critical to. Painuser uses thors a lot. Jinro has played a TON of different TvP styles over the course of the beta and since release.
Rain used a quick 1 base tank bunker into biomech style that may not have worked against oGsMC but knowing any Pro player he would not have done that strategy unless it has worked for him many times on ladder and against his teammates. Then there's players like drewbie who really pour on and abuse that bio effectiveness that's really strong on these small maps in the early game for Terran.
I just don't see how people can judge certain strategies in SC2 because it really boils down to your style and how you play. I personally was really struggling with being very aggressive in TvP with 2 rax 3 rax strats and trying to end it fast and my friend said just switch back to Mech and try and make it work again (since the tank nerfs i thought it wasn't possible) and i have for myself and it's working out great for me. I don't win 100% of my TvPs obviously but I find i just play better using the patient game style as opposed to the kill as soon as possible tug scv style.
This doesn't even just include Terran like there's protosses who don't even go collossi and Zerg's that just don't use mutas.
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hm mech is indeed possible but i believe that bio mech is much better choice because you can be more agressive with MMM and hellions until you hit a good amount of tanks with uprades and bases, and also you have marines to deal with unscouted air tech.
MMM, viking, tank, hellion, ghost is a really great combo
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Late game T basically has to use every unit in their arsenal to face the death balls. PDD vs Stalker heavy compositions, Tanks vs Colossai/Stalkers, EMP for Templars/Immortals, Helions/Marines for Marines, etc. etc.
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Mech openings are outright horrible. They forfeit map control for too long, limit your map control, and give toss the opportunity to outexpand you and tech to anything they want.
Mech is more of a transition once you have 2-3 bases which gives you more of a biomech army mid/lategame. Once you have 2-3 base of gas making mass tank/thor and ghosts is very viable.
You still have to be very wary of stargate tech if you ever want to play factories. Voidrays handle thors pretty well and carriers are unstoppable.
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EPT
