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[H] Lost to marines?
Rank: Silver
I'm having a hard time believing that I lost to marines. I took an early expansion, scouted sufficiently and kept him from expanding until really late in the game. So I expected my roach/ling mix ground army and my massive mutas air to decimate him. SO much so that I didn't bother to micro any of my units when I engaged. He had like 4 tanks, and a handful of marines with 3 medivacs and 2 thor which died 3 seconds into the fight. I had 20 or so mutas, 20 roaches and about 30 lings... I sent them all in, went to upgrade some stuff at base and came back to see my army dead.
If anyone can watch around the 19 minute marker where I engage, I have no idea how they lost. All my units were upgraded, and he ONLY had marines. What happened!!!! I watched this replay over and over and still can't put my finger on the problem :/ Maybe an outside eye can help me out, thanks guys!
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/120120-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
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Your supplies were close enough. You clumped your mass mutas against two thors, they did splash damage. There was enough tanks and steamed rines to kill your lings and roaches.
Of course there are a million issues outside of the final battle, but I don't want to get into that.
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you need banelings or infestors to deal with marines
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Also if there are marines get banes...if you dont kill his marines right away you force them to run giving you acces to his tanks/thors.
I find it important to not get TOO many mutas against terran as marine is just such a cheap counter to them. Generally you want creep spread and bane speed against terrans.
Sorry didnt watch the replay as I only have limited time atm;)
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Yeah I forgot that THORS were on the tutorial for the magic box as the very unit to avoid clumping against.. I just remembered *doh*
And yea I usually do b-lings, but this game I felt very inclined to just give my opponent a big WASSUP in the face. Didn't work >_<
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Im a terran player but from what I can see besides from macro, you realy shouldnt be floating 1K minerals all game long /but then again so did he), that banshee did way too much damage, you lost almost all your drones at you natural and build 3 spores in the main which didnt help at all, you just have to delay the banshee with the queens untill the mutas spawn, then after the harass was over you never transfered more drones to your natural so you had no saturation all game long, also you expanded to your 3rd way too late imo and after you got your 3rd you never used it,
you need to harass with mutas, they are not ment for a straight up fight especialy with marine thor, and dont get air armor, you dont need it get atack upgrade always for mutas, when you see a heavy marine army you need banelings or infestors + you only had a few lings, so in the big battle you bunched up your mutas so the thors + marines killed them in a few seconds, so it was mainly a battle 10 roaches and 10 lings vs 20 marines + 4 tanks which you will loose handly
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On December 26 2010 00:19 Eric9 wrote:
Yeah I forgot that THORS were on the tutorial for the magic box as the very unit to avoid clumping against.. I just remembered *doh*
And yea I usually do b-lings, but this game I felt very inclined to just give my opponent a big WASSUP in the face. Didn't work >_<
whell you could have won that easly without banelings, just needed 20 more roaches
if you cant macro very well on 2 base get extra hatches you'll do much better
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Tell your overlords to generate creep as soon as your lair finishes. It helps a ton with spreading creep on the defense. Attempting to "hide" lair tech at 8 minutes is pointless anyway.
Take a time out to spam tumors with your 100+ energy queens. Good places to place tumors are:
- the edges of your base (they have large vision)
- The sides of the map (to catch medivacs or banshees)
Don't spread your spore crawlers out. See what the terran did with his missile turrets? Do that. Lone spores are worthless against banshees or drops. Always make sure that one spore can support another.
As for your main attack:
- you streamed your units in. The zerglings were dead before anything else came in.
- you hit from one side. That was a perfect place to hit from the north and east
- You a-moved the mutalisks. Thors do retarded damage against a-move mutas.
After watching that main attack fail so hard:
- lead with roaches. Let them take the first shots, that's what they're good at.
- use the zerglings to hit from the long side.
- If you intend to run ling/roach in the same force, keep the zerglings behind the roaches. A quick <1 second burrow is all you need to let the zerglings through. The roach's slow firing cycle makes sure they don't lose damage, and the zerglings will live MUCH longer to deal damage.
- move your mutas over the enemy force, then hit "hold position". This will protect against the thor's lolsplash.
Some ways to improve:
- When you see a potential push, SPAM units. Wait for your army to reinforce. At the first sign of terran aggression, you should be broke.
- Place overlords on the cliffs near the zel naga towers. Generate creep and plant tumors on them.
- creep a point before expanding. Move ALL your crawlers to the expansion point, so they can aid where they're most likely to be hit.
- spread more tumors. Terrans are stupid, and will waste some time scanning them.
- you're broke, you're full of larva, and you're under attack. Pull all the queens for defense.
- Remember the rocks you nearly destroyed next to the terran expo? That's a great place to plant a nydus worm! You can hit the gold safely from in there, or plant it far back to hit his back door. Either way, Terran has to make a LONG trip to defend it.
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I watched the replay and after you were beaten you say that you're doing these games for a tutorial on droning. Unfortunately I think droning was by far your biggest problem in these games.
At 21:30, just before the big battle you are taking your third base, but you have only 26 drones! That's not even enough to fully saturate 1 base. Terran had more SCV's than you did drones which is pretty significant even when you're in silver. Taking more bases is useless if you don't saturate them, the reason you didn't have money is because you didn't make enough drones and built too much units when you didn't need them.
Honestly it's pretty much usless talking about magic boxing when you would have been way better off being maxed at 21:00 minutes. Work on your drone-whoring, you shouldn't be satisifed until you have 70 drones.
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EPT
