EPTMass Immortal in PvP? - Page 4
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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DizzyDrone
Netherlands629 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
How about doing this lategame? Instead of going 6 gate 2 robo colossus off 2 base you could go 5 gate 2 robo 1 stargate colossus immortal voidray. I'm not a protoss, so I dont know the exact numbers, but I think adding immortals and void rays as support instead of going pure colossi could be quite useful. Ignoring the possibility of killing the opponent before they whittle yours down; That won't give you strong enough anti air. It's possible but very gas heavy so it would only work as a lategame option. But just like any lategame option any combination of high gas high tech units will give you a strong army. If you go 5 Gate 2 Robo 1 Stargate and the opponent goes 3 Stargate 5 (6?) Gate with Phoenixes and mainly Chargelots, then you should be able to win easy. Even without the Chargelots. Because going 2 Robo and 1 Stargate will take up almost all their gas if not more, so their 5 gates would have to be mostly Zealots. So your Phoenix would easily rape the Void Rays, snipe the Colossi, and can pick up the Immortals to kill. So no it probably won't work well if only on 2 base with that production ratio, because of lack of anti air. | ||
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Sucio
United States14 Posts
On December 26 2010 05:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Can you check out my replay vs AzzMighty above on this page? You go in with the Phoenixes first, then your Zealots. That way at least some of the Colossi die and the zealots start hammering on the Stalkers. Also, Phoenixes are not paper airplanes to Stalkers. Phoenixes vs Stalkers... they are only less cost efficient until there are so many Stalkers not all of them can attack at once. Let's see 20 Stalkers or so. Then by 50 the Phoenixes have a huge advantage since they can stack like all air units. But anyways I'm not talking about mass Phoenix vs Stalker that's not the point xD. Robo builds may be much safer and standard, but please don't say a Stargate build can't beat a Robo build. If you see my replay it definitely did (unless you can point out something terribly wrong with the opponent or something where I simply outplayed him). Sucio Here. Ok Yoshi I just finished watching your match against AzzMighty. So the main reason why I watched this match-up was too see how the Phoenix fare in PvP but not only that, how Phoenix fare against Colossi. Now...Just looking at the very first battle it was completely clear Colossi/Robo dominated your phoenix build. As I stated, Toss Air might take out all the Colossi but not before the Colossi take out the opponents ground army. That's exactly what I saw happen here....He only had 3 Colossi and did control them poorly, hence running them straight into your zealots (lol) and they even gotten take out but he completed destroyed your first push and had a huge supply advantage after that battle. All he had to do was counter attack after that push and the battle was won with a huge supply advantage. He didn't push in at all which I was very perplexed about... The blunder after that battle was he didn't create any more Colossi till about 8 minutes later lolol. And even though he had 4 bases, he only had 7 probes mining gas lol. He had no gas to make more colossi, he teched to twilight but didn't get any additional upgrades from forge or from the counsel. So that's why he lost game the game and why you won the game. The very last battle no colossi were on the field...HIS MAIN TECH WAS COLOSSI AND HE MADE 3 AND HAD 4 BASES! haha pretty funny stuff. But yeah I have to stick to my opinion and this replay seems to prove it again for me. If he were a more solid player (meaning sending PROBES TO GAS!!!!!!!) then he would have won. Yoshi. I never said stargate builds can't beat robo. In one of my posts I stated that I had been beated by it once before. The fact of the matter is, Colossi MELT zealots and stalkers rip through phoenix and thats what I saw in that first battle. Watch it again and check his supply after that battle. Notice that if he would just counter attack that you would have lost. BTW that was the only battle where Colossi were involved and he won. PS Man I hope you don't take my opinion or anything I say to heart. I think its a great deal of fun having these discussions and reading the creative ideas other players have. Sucio | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
Wow I only watched the replay once and I haven't noticed most of the stuff you mentioned. 7 probes in gas. No Colossi. Rofl no wonder. And sorry, you are right you said "that build" can't beat, instead of Stargate builds can't beat Robo. And still with the Phoenix vs Stalker, I'm not sure if you're talking about what you would actually have on the battlefield when you need them, that the Phoenixes will be raped by Stalkers. Because if you do it cost for cost, Phoenixes, like my other post, are not much behind if at all. And the longer the game is, the larger the numbers grow, and the better Phoenixes get due to stacking and due to the nature of upgrading. EDIT: Just tried it in Unit Tester. Nevermind, Phoenix vs Stalker... Phoenix get raped. Error in my math was, I did not know Stalkers had default +1 armor. Rofl. Yeah that changes everything... I guess it would be a little crazy if Phoenix = Stalkers. Good job again Blizzard xD | ||
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Blunk
Canada27 Posts
I don't like build orders. I'll just list what the goals of this "build" will be. 3 Gates Stargate Expand Just the way I like it. Your army consisting of only Sentries, Zealots, and Pheonix will make a enemy protoss think to himself that he needs to re-evaluate his PvP. Like, why he built a robo? In PvP everything you gain by having a robo can be achieved otherwise or achieved differently and better. Of course this is in my writing and my opinion so if you have some angry rebuttal I'll be glad to hear it. Some little things you can do from this basic slate of a build. If you're feeling comfortable, go ahead and make a forge. From there you can go ahead and make a few cannons to scare away any dt plays. While your at it why not get +1 att? Sentries benefit from this upgrade enough to make it worth it. Hallucinate. Doesn't take too much effort to research, so if your have the money, which you will, go ahead. Hallucinate some colosi/archons/immortals or anything else you can to confuse your opponent and absorb damage in battle. I posted this because I want you guys to realise that if your opponent makes pheonix you can say goodbye to everything that came out of your robo. Seriously. Stop making robos. | ||
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Tivo
United States121 Posts
On December 28 2010 07:42 Blunk wrote: This is my PvP opener as of late. I don't like build orders. I'll just list what the goals of this "build" will be. 3 Gates Stargate Expand Just the way I like it. Your army consisting of only Sentries, Zealots, and Pheonix will make a enemy protoss think to himself that he needs to re-evaluate his PvP. Like, why he built a robo? In PvP everything you gain by having a robo can be achieved otherwise or achieved differently and better. Of course this is in my writing and my opinion so if you have some angry rebuttal I'll be glad to hear it. Some little things you can do from this basic slate of a build. If you're feeling comfortable, go ahead and make a forge. From there you can go ahead and make a few cannons to scare away any dt plays. While your at it why not get +1 att? Sentries benefit from this upgrade enough to make it worth it. Hallucinate. Doesn't take too much effort to research, so if your have the money, which you will, go ahead. Hallucinate some colosi/archons/immortals or anything else you can to confuse your opponent and absorb damage in battle. I posted this because I want you guys to realise that if your opponent makes pheonix you can say goodbye to everything that came out of your robo. Seriously. Stop making robos. Colossi= infinite (until the unit dies) ground splash damage and the ability to break forcefields for the rest of your ground army. And hallucination? IF HE HAS A ROBO HE HAS OBSERVERS unless he's an idiot. | ||
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confusedcrib
United States1307 Posts
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Blunk
Canada27 Posts
On December 28 2010 07:49 Tivo wrote: Colossi= infinite (until the unit dies) ground splash damage and the ability to break forcefields for the rest of your ground army. And hallucination? IF HE HAS A ROBO HE HAS OBSERVERS unless he's an idiot. Sorry, I don't see the relevance of that to what I said? If you're saying robo is a more viable option, you're not nessecarily wrong, anything can win a game, but I'm not swayed that much. Pheonixes lift immortals and kill colossi, as opposed to immortals not killing pheonixes, and colossi not killing phoenixes. Am I missing something? I hope you didn't think I meant phoenixes vs. a gateway army + colossi + immortals, the player with phoenixes would obviously have a gateway army as well. | ||
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Tivo
United States121 Posts
On December 28 2010 13:59 Blunk wrote: Sorry, I don't see the relevance of that to what I said? If you're saying robo is a more viable option, you're not nessecarily wrong, anything can win a game, but I'm not swayed that much. Pheonixes lift immortals and kill colossi, as opposed to immortals not killing pheonixes, and colossi not killing phoenixes. Am I missing something? I hope you didn't think I meant phoenixes vs. a gateway army + colossi + immortals, the player with phoenixes would obviously have a gateway army as well. I was referring to the bolded part. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
It's a terrible build and only beats blink stalkers. So if your friend only knows blinkstalkers, go this ^.^ | ||
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MiKTeX
United States234 Posts
generally the best way to combat a mass colossus player is to have good positioning for your units. dont just shout "charge!" and proceed to 1A your units. rather, use observers and watch towers to see when/where he is going to attack and make sure your units are spread out. you would be surprised how good just spreading your units and having some zealots/stalkers flank your opponent can be my pvp style involves getting a reasonably fast expo with a cannon and a total of 4 gates soon after and eventually adding 2 forges, more gates, and a twilight council for the zealot/stalker upgrades. when the mass colossus player does engage i just have so much shit, better upgrades, and good positioning that i dont even care that he has the go-to power unit (obviously as late game i will add colossus because they are just so good, but my mid game revolves around superior upgrades and positioning to win me the fights) mass gateway is just my style, but the important thing is to have good positioning when going against colossus p.s. charge zealots are sick in pvp | ||
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Scaryman
United States70 Posts
On December 27 2010 05:58 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: It seems you're forgetting that Colossi can't shoot up... Chargelots rape Colossi, if there isn't enough zealots or other ground army for the Colossi user himself. Again, not true. You can get Zealots yourself to stop the Zealots from killing you. You don't need Colossi. If what you said were true, everyone would mass Zealots. if it wasn't for ff and chokes everyone would mass zealots. | ||
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giuocob
United States149 Posts
Anyway, as far as void rays versus colossus, don't forget that the patch is going to make void rays bring the pain more efficiently to massive units. I can see that having a profound impact on the viability of void rays in this matchup, though I'll have to wait to see on that. | ||
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red_hq
Canada450 Posts
If you want to avoid war of the worlds just get VRs essentially if you keep them behind your stalker line and dart them in and out so if they engage you tear through the stalkers with zealots and then finish em with your VRs which you hopefully keep alive. But if they play it smart and just collo your zealots to nothing then you can fly your VRs around the army and start charging on the collo. VRs just tear through everything toss once they are charged. | ||
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