EPTAny feedback is appreciated
Mass Immortal in PvP?
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Dark Void
United States39 Posts
Any feedback is appreciated | ||
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sti
United Kingdom43 Posts
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Faze.
Canada285 Posts
That's my guess I dont even play protoss, take it for what it's worth, but I dont think immortals are a good unit to mass in most situation, they are good as some sort of offensive support, but they're quite expansive and slow to make. Not to mention they're pretty slow and cant hit air. | ||
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RyanRushia
United States2748 Posts
against stuff like blink stalker sure i'd recommend it, but i think gateway + colossus can still wreck it. albeit not as often used, voidray could be strong as well against it, as you only have one gateway of support, cant get out enough AA to handle multiple voidray + gateway support | ||
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Thoramas
Singapore152 Posts
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Dark Void
United States39 Posts
On December 23 2010 04:18 sti wrote: The problem is while you might beat collouses if they just go 4gate push you will end up fighting 3 immortals vs a huge army. And people will push you if they see 2 robo. Hmmm... I tested it out vs a 2 gate opening. I actually didn't do 4 gate :x but the way you put it, it doesn't sound like my force fields could hold them off long enough to get enough immortals. Maybe I could come up with a way to alter it if I see something besides a collosus opening? Like if I see a 4 gate coming just don't drop the second robo and get another gate instead? O wow, so many posts while I post lol. Uh, I'm not talking using this against EVERY opening. I mean, no build holds off everything right? I'm saying open up planning to mass immortal, but if your scouting informs you of something that it can't hold off, then adapt it like any build to this new info. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Simple fact is, voidrays handily kill every unit a Protoss can make, and a 2 gate/stargate build can often do serious damage, or outright kill, robo builds. The crux I think is that stalkers are not very cost-effective against voidrays, so if a player goes 2 gate robo against 2 gate stargate and the stargate player has half a brain, the robo player won't survive because his antiair will get steamed before the voidrays are killed. All it takes is one ray, and it will be able to clean up anything if there are no stalkers left. | ||
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Dark Void
United States39 Posts
On December 23 2010 04:27 wherebugsgo wrote: I think robo builds will say bye-bye as stargate builds become popular. Soon I think forge+stargate will be common (since you can use the phoenix or a voidray to scout and keep cannons at home for DT detection/defense) Simple fact is, voidrays handily kill every unit a Protoss can make, and a 2 gate/stargate build can often do serious damage, or outright kill, robo builds. The crux I think is that stalkers are not very cost-effective against voidrays, so if a player goes 2 gate robo against 2 gate stargate and the stargate player has half a brain, the robo player won't survive because his antiair will get steamed before the voidrays are killed. All it takes is one ray, and it will be able to clean up anything if there are no stalkers left. Are you suggesting perhaps instead of a mass immortal opening to lighten up the collosus wars, a stargate opening? Sounds interesting. I just decided to not open void rays in PvP until that bonus against massive units is applied. I would have to test it, but the common stalker collosus opening just seems like enough anit-air to take out the void rays. | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
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Brandus
148 Posts
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
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monk
United States8476 Posts
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kemsley
United Arab Emirates137 Posts
Obviously it can be countered if seen, but if you proxy it and get your timing right (i.e hit as soon as possible before they've massed units) then you can win quickly and easily with it. If you lose one battle, because you can't retreat fast enough you lose your whole investment and the game, if they find your proxy you lose the game. I think as a one off all in, it is fun and can work but as a good opener, against andy of the races it's pretty turd. But really, really fun when you win :-) | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
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khazgore
Norway104 Posts
however it works very well against Blink stalkers and 4 gates that are stalker heavy. note you have to get a couple of stalkers aswell, as alot of opponent immediately throws up a Stargate when they see mass immortals. if a decent opponent scout 2 robos your dead so start with the robos when your walled off. | ||
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Sucio
United States14 Posts
A standard robo build can defeat any 4 gate unless of course they somehow have a proxy pylon in your base lol. Concerning this MASS Immortal vs colossi thing...Yes it most deff can work and has worked for me if you time it correctly. A lot of toss players go 1 base colossi which I think is ridiculous..You end up with 2 colossi and a Tiny Tiny ground army. 3 to 4 immortals plus good macro/micro with your other gateway units will take this 1 base 2 colossi nonsense down. So yes it does work with good scouting and attack timings. I have seen a ton of Toss players trying out void ray builds against Robo/Colossi type builds...Ummmm....I think I may have lost 1 game to a toss that has gone for the voids when I went for colossi tech. Once again if you go 1 base colossi which I DON'T recommend than a stargate build with some voids might actually take the game maybe. But I honestly don't think Toss is going to be switching to more stargate type builds than Robo builds which are just so safe/strong. I think the problem with going Stargate vs Robo tech is that the colossi are going to crush the stargate players ground army. Just completely annihilate it even if they do loose all there colossi to voids. Hence, the robo player will have a huge ground advantage over the Stargate player. A good amount of stalkers can easily deal with voids which can't hide in the back of a toss army like Colossi can. That's just my opinion but hey you never know what can happen. This game is incredible and is ever changing every week. Good Luck Dark Void! Sucio | ||
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TheGiz
Canada708 Posts
Many times have I won against this composition. People underestimate the huge advantage that Force Field brings to battles, and they also tend to forget that Colossi break Force Fields, taking them out of the equation in big battles. Immortals are great in a concave, but that concave will never form if they're all cut up by Force Fields. In the mad scramble, even slow DPS from Stalkers/Sentries/Colossus will be enough to take masses of them down. Sure, you might lose all your Stalkers, but they will be replaced by Zealots and Sentries and you're basically fucked. Combining this with Void Rays might be more viable, as has been done before. This is costlier than anything your opponent will produce however, and he'll simply beat you in unit count and thus DPS. | ||
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TheGiz
Canada708 Posts
On December 23 2010 04:47 4kmonk wrote: Collosi One Immortal and one Void Ray is 500/250. One Colossus is 300/200. I guarantee you that I can beat you in unit count with Colossus support. Remember that with Colossus any Gateway support you may have will melt away in seconds, while my Zealots have longer to live. They'll eliminate your Immortals, which leaves my Stalkers alive to help my Sentries kill your Void Rays. The Colossus War in PvP is all about killing Force Fields and melting away Gateway units. Without their support and without Force Fields to block me, I can assure you that your other units will be quite exposed. P.S. I apologize for the double post. Didn't realize until after. | ||
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Dark Void
United States39 Posts
V might deal with that issue, but I'd have to test to see if you spread yourself to thin. On December 23 2010 04:49 Wrongspeedy wrote: Opening 1-1(stargate)-1(robo) against someone thats not being aggressive off 1 base, then yourself expanding, leaves you in a good position to tech switch from there. You have immortals and air units (immortals vs stalks and colossus, air vs sentry zealot), you can also just add a bunch of gates at any point you think you need them, a lot of times I do this though I actually wait to get warpgates (sometimes I act like I'm getting it if I don't want to be scouted, then cancel it when I need the gas) because I only start with 1 gateway and I need the gas else where. If you get 2 base vs 2 base its a great position to be in, you can easily get colossus, or easily counter them. Its a strange build (surprising to see an immortal and voidray 1 base pvp), but thats a good thing because sometimes doing something unexpected is all you need to do to win. On December 23 2010 04:49 kemsley wrote: I tried going 2 robo and rushing and unsurprisingly I got not very good results vs Protoss.......but beat lots of Terrans, even ones that went all marines. Obviously it can be countered if seen, but if you proxy it and get your timing right (i.e hit as soon as possible before they've massed units) then you can win quickly and easily with it. If you lose one battle, because you can't retreat fast enough you lose your whole investment and the game, if they find your proxy you lose the game. I think as a one off all in, it is fun and can work but as a good opener, against andy of the races it's pretty turd. But really, really fun when you win :-) I found the tarren part of that post interesting. Never thought about using such a build against tarren. hmmmm.... O, BTW I tested the 1 stargate, 2 warp gate opening against both collosus stalker, and blink stalker. It barely held off the collosus one, leaving usually (this is assuming you both have a second expo) 4-5 void rays vs. 4 collosus. Of course, the void rays can clean up. But I'm concerned about that letting the collosus numbers get up to high for your zealots to counter later in the game, since they out speed voidrays and can just retreat once all the stalkers are dead. And the blink stalkers, it did really well against surprisingly. Assuming they can't blink up onto high ground for lack of vision, with scoot and shoot, and blink micro, in the end, the stargater came out on top. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
EDIT: indeed the reason you go immortal/phoenix and not pure immortal is that the phoenix give you greater flexibility in terms of harass, greater ability to counter colossus, gives you the ability to expand but MOST importantly forces your opponent to build stalkers - which your immortal/zealot/(sentry) heavy army counters effectively. | ||
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