EPTOn December 08 2010 07:00 TheGiz wrote:
What beats me (as Protoss):
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How I beat Zerg (as Protoss):
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What beats me (as Protoss):
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* Roaches are certainly a bitch, especially early. Later in the game they are no threat to me however.
* Banelings are another huge problem, although thankfully I never have to deal with them.
* Speedlings are good against me out in the open very early on. They deny movement and just chip away at my forces until they're dead. This implies I'm out in the open, however. If you can run past the wall on the ramp too (try to beat the FF), then this will cause a lot of problems.
* Run-bys when I fast-expand are another problem, because I won't have cannons yet to defend my minerals.
* Super mass Mutalisks are still hard to deal with for Protoss especially late-game. Most Protoss rely on using Blink Stalkers to force the Zerg to go ground, but in reality a significant Muta force in the late game will do good damage against mostly Zealots/Colossus with Stalker/Sentry support. Watch out for Storm though, then you're screwed.
* Banelings are another huge problem, although thankfully I never have to deal with them.
* Speedlings are good against me out in the open very early on. They deny movement and just chip away at my forces until they're dead. This implies I'm out in the open, however. If you can run past the wall on the ramp too (try to beat the FF), then this will cause a lot of problems.
* Run-bys when I fast-expand are another problem, because I won't have cannons yet to defend my minerals.
* Super mass Mutalisks are still hard to deal with for Protoss especially late-game. Most Protoss rely on using Blink Stalkers to force the Zerg to go ground, but in reality a significant Muta force in the late game will do good damage against mostly Zealots/Colossus with Stalker/Sentry support. Watch out for Storm though, then you're screwed.
How I beat Zerg (as Protoss):
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* Ground armies are delicious. I love cutting them up with Force Fields then mowing them down with hordes of Zealots and Colossus beam spam. Thank God Zerg never make Banelings or Ultralisks or I might have a problem.
* Muta-Speedling in the mid-game is just too easy to handle with proper Blink Stalker usage. It's really predictable and easily preventable to with simple occasional pressure. This leaves the Zerg with a large, unused, low-tier army in the late-game that I find so delicious. Not to mention I often get a small Phoenix force for the very purpose of denying this strategy.
* I'm perfectly fine with Zerg not attacking me for much of the game. It just lets me tech and expand while I exert map control and prepare a game-winning army.
* Go right ahead and forget getting and detection. Not only will I harass with Dark Templar, but I'll put them in my main army and you won't have a damn clue. I'll also use my harass Phoenixes to snipe said Overseers and leave you in the dark.
* Muta-Speedling in the mid-game is just too easy to handle with proper Blink Stalker usage. It's really predictable and easily preventable to with simple occasional pressure. This leaves the Zerg with a large, unused, low-tier army in the late-game that I find so delicious. Not to mention I often get a small Phoenix force for the very purpose of denying this strategy.
* I'm perfectly fine with Zerg not attacking me for much of the game. It just lets me tech and expand while I exert map control and prepare a game-winning army.
* Go right ahead and forget getting and detection. Not only will I harass with Dark Templar, but I'll put them in my main army and you won't have a damn clue. I'll also use my harass Phoenixes to snipe said Overseers and leave you in the dark.
The good parts, ones I've been neglecting, are covered in your list, and correlate well with my observations from higher level replays. I'm certainly guilty of building ground-only armies and leaving the Protoss alone to tech. When I first started watching ZvP replays to fix my matchup, I watched 5-6 Dimaga replays in a row where he lost doing ling, roach, hydra ground battles. It was uncanny how familiar that sight was.
On December 08 2010 10:48 Vaporized wrote:
the only thing i would say is dont blindly attack into a defended position. i only push in when i know i have the advantage. i know i have the advantage when i have successfully KILLED a push he does (just by nature of toss production vs zerg, i can make MANY more units then he can in a short period of time), or i scout his fast expand and see he is light on units.
if u are getting outmacro'd against a big push then simply work on your macro. not getting supply blocked is so crucial. on 2 bases, lightly saturated, u can CONSTANTLY pump roach/ling. make overlords every 3 roaches, or 4 sets of lings. just get in this habit, get upgrades, and then see how u do.
the only thing i would say is dont blindly attack into a defended position. i only push in when i know i have the advantage. i know i have the advantage when i have successfully KILLED a push he does (just by nature of toss production vs zerg, i can make MANY more units then he can in a short period of time), or i scout his fast expand and see he is light on units.
if u are getting outmacro'd against a big push then simply work on your macro. not getting supply blocked is so crucial. on 2 bases, lightly saturated, u can CONSTANTLY pump roach/ling. make overlords every 3 roaches, or 4 sets of lings. just get in this habit, get upgrades, and then see how u do.
I think you make some important points.
There is an initial timing window when Protoss spams canons or buildings to secure an expansion. Since he cannot afford both canons and army the options are: attack the expansion, attack the main, or expand. Planting lings or overlords with creep spread at the expansions can help give warning on the window. Once the defense is up the attacks must be calculated or it will result in huge losses.
I've always been scared to counter after a big Protoss push. If the Protoss ball just died or is halfway across the map, countering is huge if even just to kill some probes or reinforcements. However, getting supply capped causes the window to slip. I have started to make overlords more often to avoid this. If I get supply capped I will make extra overlords and start some upgrades while I wait.
