EPTYou have macro problems.
How do you use Zealots? - Page 2
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papaHav
Australia14 Posts
You have macro problems. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:28 papaHav wrote: If you think zealots suck against zerglings - You have macro problems. This, especially +1 zealots. Omg, 10 +1 zealots kept tight will absolutely destroy huge numbers of zerglings. | ||
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jmack
Canada285 Posts
Have I had rage spats where I get kitted by terran basic units? Sure. But have you seen fully upgraded zealots with charge? My fucking face. +2 weapon chargelots are hysterical versus zerg, and +2 armor versus terran means they just take so long to die. Not even mentioning 3/3, cause generally it doesn't go that far. Also, warping in 4 zealots + 4 storms, now thats a cost efficient death dealing army. | ||
Chill
Calgary25998 Posts
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GreenTea1
United States31 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:08 Trizzen wrote: No offence but imho winning games should take some effort, otherwise sc2 would be one game no one would play. You know the terran is actually microing his units to actually kite those zealots, that means he's doing what he can to not get molested in melee. Actually, it doesnt seem fair when 4 zealots beats 4 marauders and 4 marines if the terran isn't microing and this even without charge.. You really should get the "high gas" units that the protoss arsenal does provide you and don't cry about the cost as most decent toss players will have more than enough gas compared to the terran during the first 5-6 minutes. Atleast if you are using the occational chrono boost to get out more workers. Zealots should be used as meat for your ranged units, with charge they are great for flanking, or worker line harass if you feel like investing in a warp prism or have a close proxy pylon. I don't really see why you'd want to change over to zealots if mass stalkers are winning you games. :/ ...yes fine but stim complements kiting so well that unless you have forcefields, a gateway army (at least before storm) is INCAPABLE of killing a marine marauder bio ball. Concussive shell doesn't have a cooldown. Charge does. Yes, a-moving units doesn't require micro. But the micro involved in stim kiting isn't difficult either. did you just say...mass stalkers are winning you games...did you really just say that... marauders are so cost effective against stalkers that the only time a terran would lose to that is if he/she was either extremely far behind or got 9x forcefielded. that's about it. Don't tell the thread-starter to stop crying if your'e going to cry yourself about your troubles with protoss. | ||
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Polatrite
United States135 Posts
I constantly see these "Zealots get kited FOREVER!" comments which is simply a falacy - they get kited in unfavorable situations, which include: * Being on creep * Against stim * Against concussive * Against stalkers Early game, before stim or concussive are done, Zealots do not get kited (they have their attacks delayed by some kiting micro, but not the severity of the above conditions). Once Zealots upgrade charge they receive a 0.5 increase to their BASE speed as well as the charge every 10 seconds, which results in Zealots outspeeding Marines, Marauders and Hydralisks by a fair margin in Protoss-favorable conditions. As said numerous times in this thread, however, Zealots are the meat shield and need additional units to support. This is why the Korean 4gate is not nearly as popular as it originally was is because players have learned to adapt to the slow base speed of Zealots. Zealots paired with other units, however, increase the cost efficiency of Stalkers immensely and give the Sentry a real solid purpose in the Protoss army with proper forcefields. Do you think Sentries would be that good if they forcefielded a bioball in half when it's stim Marines and Marauders against a Stalker ball? The answer is no: even HALF a bioball worth of stim MM would decimate a large Stalker ball due to how cost inefficient Stalkers are without proper support. Back to my original point: Charge IS a movement speed upgrade. It's not an enormous one like Leg Enhancements was, but the Charge mechanic itself is also ridiculously useful in performing a surround and concave MUCH quicker than was possible in Brood War. | ||
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azhang
United States178 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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fusihunter
Australia208 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:45 Chill wrote: I never build Zealots without Sentries. There's something really satisfying about jamming that Terran ball into a fucking corner and filling it with Zealots. +1. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't make sentries in any composition , they are a match winner from Tier 1 till tier 3 (Obv you have to not get them stomped on, but even putting them behind ultras to seperate the Hydras is very effective). So how do you use Zealots? With sentries. | ||
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MoMoGai
United States18 Posts
Try stiming the ruaders and have the chargelot atk. With proper micro/kiting, the charge duration will run out before EVER reaching the rauder and thus die w/o doing a good job of ever dealing dmg as so many have suggested. Zerglings on the other hand even though they are 'countered' by so many different units, they are, just like marines, the best tier one unit in the game. Both lings and rins have their place in Late game; and rins can still deal insane dps and the ling is still a very potent sniper and harass unit. The key w/ a tier 1 unit being useful is the mobility it has during Mid/Late game. Lings are super fast, rins have stim and deal high dps, but lots are the slowest of the 3. They do not have mobility. Even during late game ppl still fear a ling counter attack, or marine drops. NO ONE fears chargelot drops or even chargelot run by, especially not even during battles (mirrors dont count). Roaches/Hydras/Infestor/Bling evaporate lots on the battlefield with lots takes one or two volleys before they ell evaporate. Rin/Rauder/Hellion/Reaper/Tanks do a little magic trick called shooting and all the lots become little flickering candle light in the middle of a field. (if you think the same happens w/ lings watch the GSL. they come in from all sides and divert a ton of fire and can stop a retreat and allow the army to be cleaned up while stopping reinforcements at the same time) On December 07 2010 09:23 fusihunter wrote: +1. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't make sentries in any composition , they are a match winner from Tier 1 till tier 3 (Obv you have to not get them stomped on, but even putting them behind ultras to seperate the Hydras is very effective). So how do you use Zealots? With sentries. Well heres the thing, lings and rins operate well WITHOUT any other unit assistance, while lots HAVE to rely on sentries. | ||
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oZii
United States1198 Posts
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TapeDeckChris
Canada38 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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sas911
Canada113 Posts
On December 07 2010 09:32 MoMoGai wrote: I dont get why ppl are saying how chargelots function great vs the MM ball. Try stiming the ruaders and have the chargelot atk. With proper micro/kiting, the charge duration will run out before EVER reaching the rauder and thus die w/o doing a good job of ever dealing dmg as so many have suggested. Umm... Firstly, if you're army is magically composed of only marauders, the army difference would just totally overwhelm you. Secondly, are you SERIOUS? Chargelots directed to attack a terran mm will at the very minimum REACH your army. You kite, moving back, and the second charge they take like 4,5 swipes at the front of your army. Then third charge the final surround gets you raped. This is not including the fact that stalkers are taking free shots while you try to kite chargelots, that and protoss always has sentries for guardian shields ANYWAY 4 (aka. ff split your army in half, that's pretty ownage). Also you should note that they will probably have more zealots then you have marauders, just because of the build time, and the fact zealots don't need any gas. That means no matter how hard you kite, unslowed chargelots will just run up into your army and stay there, slicing whatever it can. ---- EDIT: In pvt chargelots rock, because the twilight council helps you work your way up to ht tech, as any good terran will always get vikings to get ready to own your colossus. In pvp it's a bit controversial. Early game, you'll definitely have an advantage, just because chargelots can munch through stalkers sooo well. However, if you got a twilight council and they're going standard for colossus, you're in a slight bit of trouble. (ff ramp shuts down a lot of attempts to end game there and then). I like to use chargelots and get an expo, and try to use my chargelots to deny any expansions while I abuse my economic advantage and get either colossus or voids (well, just trying out void rays because of patch, but if I really want to win I'll usually just get colossus) | ||
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TibblesEvilCat
United Kingdom766 Posts
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
Until you learn the strengths of every unit they all seem dumb and useless, but when you use them properly it feels so satisfying. This was particularly prominent with immortals for me, at first they were just getting stuck behind the stalkers all the time and weren't even shooting, but when I learned to keep them in the zealot control group instead of the stalker group and order them to attack proper targets they are just crazy, scoring 5-10 kills on average. As for the zealots, they should have some support so that they don't get outmanoeuvred. Stalkers prevent marines and marauders from getting free shots and the sentries are of course amazing. Also try not to engage in an open field, try to use terrain to block the enemy units. As soon as they have nowhere to run they will get sliced up really fast. Zealots actually have one of the highest dps. | ||
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sas911
Canada113 Posts
On December 07 2010 09:59 TibblesEvilCat wrote: i find if people don't mirco vs zealots, the zealots win every game this is coming from a bronze player perspective  Only problem is that they will later on, always micro against zealots. That's why zealot is always coupled with either charge (which can own everything), or sentries with force field. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
The last 2 lines and the title is what saves you. The amount of information in trying to tell you how to use zealots in every different situation would cause the whole server to crash hence I suggest you do the following. 1. You can play a few games without using zealots and see where that gets you. No greater way to see the value of a unit but to have it temporarily removed. 2. Watch some good vods and see how more experienced people deal with the problems. | ||
palookieblue
Australia326 Posts
That said, upgraded Zealots (with charge) are excellent in most stages of the game. They can tank quite well in numbers and deal decent damage too. (: | ||
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Keshuan
Germany18 Posts
In PvZ i think you mostly need them for early Agression (Meathsield vs Spinecrawler/Roach and DD against Lings) but on the Mid/Lategame they are not rly that good cause u focus more on Splitting the Zerg Army in Half and its not worth when the whole Zerg Army still can kill ur Zaelots. | ||
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