EPTHow do you use Zealots? - Page 3
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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MoMoGai
United States18 Posts
On December 07 2010 09:56 sas911 wrote: Umm... Firstly, if you're army is magically composed of only marauders, the army difference would just totally overwhelm you. Secondly, are you SERIOUS? Chargelots directed to attack a terran mm will at the very minimum REACH your army. You kite, moving back, and the second charge they take like 4,5 swipes at the front of your army. Then third charge the final surround gets you raped. You do realize that in order for charge to activate 3 times, its 30 sec cooldown (10 sec per charge cd) + duration of charge (cooldown start after charge ability is finished). I dont know how many zealots a person would need vs how less MM the opponent needs in order to need to kite chargelots for 30+ sec. Also charge range exceeds that of stalker atk range and walk speed, and No, an mm ball doesnt need all rauders because rins deal the dps since they can atk almost 2x as fast. The units closest to the army gets slowed by the rauders. The concusive EFFECTS charge. So charge speed is cut IN HALF which is roughly the speed of a stalker normally. STIM makes the units much faster than a stalker can run. The chargelot should not reach within melee range with proper micro of the MM ball. Yes, chargelots are good in very small skirmishes, but once there is a decent army count during the mid game, they evaporate w/o being able to do much if at all. EDIT: In pvt chargelots rock, because the twilight council helps you work your way up to ht tech, as any good terran will always get vikings to get ready to own your colossus. In pvp it's a bit controversial. Early game, you'll definitely have an advantage, just because chargelots can munch through stalkers sooo well. However, if you got a twilight council and they're going standard for colossus, you're in a slight bit of trouble. (ff ramp shuts down a lot of attempts to end game there and then). I like to use chargelots and get an expo, and try to use my chargelots to deny any expansions while I abuse my economic advantage and get either colossus or voids (well, just trying out void rays because of patch, but if I really want to win I'll usually just get colossus) What youre saying is that going HT is a good way to research charge. However, if you head straight for twilight, a shee opening or even delayed opening = auto lose on the P end, or the roach burrow micro will break P apart w/o robo. P is FORCED to open robo. By the time twilight and charge is researched, the game would have already moved on to the mid/late game where the armies are at a size where chargelots are rendered near ineffective as the die very fast to everything the other 2 races have to offer. Yes, maybe in specifically selected games and against certain openings and matchups and positioning, chargelots are viable to use. However, in the majority of the games played and even at top level play, chargelots are no where near as effective and viable as you have assumed. Yes, charge allows zealots to be better and more useful, but it is SUCH a late tech and so costly, like the reaper nitro pack being moved to require factory, the margin where charge is viable is slim, and with the inherent weakness of the tech tree and opponents opening options available, chargelots are not justified for the investment. I think the only role currently for zealots in general are to act as early game buffers that allow the P player to tech up into Colos or HT and act as a mineral dump, not some amazing game changing unit that many ppl have suggested. | ||
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NeoSparta
United States10 Posts
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Abstinence
United States328 Posts
PvT: Say you get dropped in your main. What would you warp in, four stalkers, four zealots or two zealots and two stalker? The latter, obviously. Warping in zealots on top of an army is awesome, AND they prevent your expensive stalkers from dying. Another example: In PvP, if both players do a 4gate, it comes down to whoever has more zealots. PvZ: Someone opens dimaga style. What, are you going to make a bunch of stalkers and get faceraped by hardcore speedling mass? | ||
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Provocateur
Sweden1665 Posts
On December 07 2010 09:32 MoMoGai wrote: I dont get why ppl are saying how chargelots function great vs the MM ball. Try stiming the ruaders and have the chargelot atk. With proper micro/kiting, the charge duration will run out before EVER reaching the rauder and thus die w/o doing a good job of ever dealing dmg as so many have suggested. Zerglings on the other hand even though they are 'countered' by so many different units, they are, just like marines, the best tier one unit in the game. Both lings and rins have their place in Late game; and rins can still deal insane dps and the ling is still a very potent sniper and harass unit. The key w/ a tier 1 unit being useful is the mobility it has during Mid/Late game. Lings are super fast, rins have stim and deal high dps, but lots are the slowest of the 3. They do not have mobility. Even during late game ppl still fear a ling counter attack, or marine drops. NO ONE fears chargelot drops or even chargelot run by, especially not even during battles (mirrors dont count). Roaches/Hydras/Infestor/Bling evaporate lots on the battlefield with lots takes one or two volleys before they ell evaporate. Rin/Rauder/Hellion/Reaper/Tanks do a little magic trick called shooting and all the lots become little flickering candle light in the middle of a field. (if you think the same happens w/ lings watch the GSL. they come in from all sides and divert a ton of fire and can stop a retreat and allow the army to be cleaned up while stopping reinforcements at the same time) Well heres the thing, lings and rins operate well WITHOUT any other unit assistance, while lots HAVE to rely on sentries. Here's another thing, Zealots operate EXTREMELY well along with sentry support, especially in the earlier stages of the game. As long as your force field micro isn't terrible a sentry and zealot heavy composition should do well against most things your opponent can throw at you in the early game. The often so fearsome MM ball becomes laughable once you place three or four force fields behind them and letting your Zealots go to work. I really think you underestimate this unit's potential. | ||
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ducis
Canada96 Posts
zealots are used to tank damage, and deal damage, and to not waste gas, against ground units seriously zealots are awesome units, they just take a few forcefeilds to be effective | ||
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GQz
Australia168 Posts
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
PvZ Roaches and Hydras eat zealots with or without kiting and make me sad (PS hydras can kite slowlots offcreep) : (( PvT Slowlots are useless beyond letting your stalkers shoot without getting instajibbed, by the time you can get chargelots its at the point in the game where it is simply detrimental to get charge. Have you ever seen zealots charge forward into MM ball? Each zealot gets 1 strike, and the ball takes steps back and kites for eternity because your ranged units are too far away to hit the MM ball, and the zealots can't retreat nor attack because of kiting and conc shell as well as their overall speed. No matter the situation, attempting to use zealots for a hundred games gas left me sad : ((( | ||
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Koneko
United Kingdom6 Posts
Turns out zealot + probe is the best unit combination ^_^. | ||
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teh_longinator
Canada725 Posts
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red_hq
Canada450 Posts
Zealots are boss even after the nerf, Foxer died to a 1gate proxy. | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
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achacttn
Australia82 Posts
Basically owns every ground unit once you get charge and too tanky =/ | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
Yeah, sucks to be a Zealot. | ||
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GreenTea1
United States31 Posts
except that's when they were invading the beach; zealots get that whether your'e attacking or defending... yes. it REALLY sucks to be a zealot. | ||
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TheSambassador
United States186 Posts
When I started this post I was just frustrated by being rolled over by stimmed marine/maurader. However, I've "figured out" how to use force-fields relatively effectively, and holy crap zealots do SO much damage. Overall though, it seems like Protoss is still pretty heavily reliant on the sentry. It's SUCH a good unit, so ridiculously versatile (I almost would say the best caster in the game), but it almost doesn't feel like a choice. I really don't see myself ever NOT making a Sentry in a game... there is literally no place where they would be bad. Is this the problem? | ||
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SnipedSoul
Canada2158 Posts
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shutdown_exploded
United States133 Posts
I'm not really giving spoilers. I think the basic uses of zealot as meat shield and the strength of charelogts vs bio/hydra has been pretty much covered. But the idea of zealot as early game mineral sink in sync with sentry forcefield is obscene. I think if protoss is played well, everyone else is at the mercy of their exact unit composition for the first ten minutes of the game (too many bunkers vs units, too many roaches vs lings/crawlers, too many zealots). I must reiterate, everyone is at the mercy of the aggressive Toss unit comp, or they autolose. | ||
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SecondShadow
69 Posts
Zealot+few stalkers+immortal--->Zealot+immortal+stalkers+colossi (if it ever gets that far) in PvT Zealot+stalker+immortal-->Zealot+Immortal+Archon+Carrier (for shitzandgigz) in PvZ I <3 zealots, especially chargelots. Rush for charge most games (2gate-council-robo-moargates). Use obs/xel naga towers to watch out for incoming armies, wait for them to be perpendicular to army and then charge in for epic death. Zealots actually whip tanks and marine/marauder horribly if you catch them as they are moving out. Charge in from behind+side, hurpsword death, and use stalkers to roast any medivacs and tanks that are blocked by blobs of marauines | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
Protoss really needs to get AOE dmg or they get screwed, the problem is of course they just can't deal enough dmg. Best DMG Dealer Zealot usually does not get into the position dealing dmg at all. Even Charge does not change that, (the speedupgrade with charge at least helps alot more) without zealots out of the picture we are now stuck with Stalkers as dmg, which are the least cost efficient unit in the game. Sure Forcefields helps a lot but still, what when your enemy does not engage you in position that favors you? one wasted forcefield, costs you the game, you can't run away cause you have to engage because your units are so fucking slow. all in all Protoss have to play really precautiously, cause errors are severly punished during micro battles. | ||
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