[G] Synystyr's TvP Anti Colossus Build - Page 4

On December 03 2010 06:50 Requisition wrote:
Small error with the build order steps. When following it you get up to a 43 supply cap without being told to make another supply depot until 50 supply. Just need to throw another supply depot around the 40~ supply mark.

On December 03 2010 07:08 iAmJeffReY wrote:
PDD doesn't have enough mana to be effective vs 5+ phoenix and a couple stalkers. 1 shot is 10 mana, you don't start with but what 50-100 mana? I feel 4 is overkill asking to be phoenix harassed. As they can shoot and move, they can just fight you where they want to fight you, right?

I wouldn't say banshees are 'fast' units. They have incredibly slow accel.

I'm always more an MM+banshee guy, so of course I think this is a bit too commited to banshees.

On December 03 2010 07:10 hoovehand wrote:
while you build your CC, build a barracks near the toss base and float it over.... you can see if he's doing a 3-4 gate rush, then bunker/marauder as required.

i think mass banshee is overkill though. banshee owns colossus, but mass banshee is weak against other compositions.

On December 03 2010 08:08 kcdc wrote:
Maybe I'm the only P that does this, but I certainly don't play passively after a 1-gate expansion unless I absolutely have to. I've learned that I can't punish a 2-rax expand with marauders and bunkers, but a 1-rax expand that techs straight to banshees is a sitting duck. I cut probes after my nexus to pump as many gateway units as possible and I know I'll be behind in economy against a T that expands as quickly as you are. Without bunkers (as you've suggested you can get away with), this build dies to even the most econ-greedy Protoss builds. Even with bunkers, a FE into 6-gate all-in would kill this without losing more than a handful of zealots.

Edit:
On closer inspection, you'll need to rush for a bunker at your nat to hold a zealot+stalker poke. I've killed less greedy builds than this off of one gateway. You can't set up your natural off of 1 barracks on on maps with open naturals.

On December 03 2010 08:22 iAmJeffReY wrote:
..and when they push you, and draw the PDDs at your base or in the middle, as they're supposed to, then what? When they do fly bys all game with phoenixs to keep your banshees in base, or make you make vikings, what then?

If you keep your banshees with your marines all game, then they aren't harassing, and aren't worth nearly what ya pay for em, in my mind.

And I agree, an aggressive 3 gate robo all in would crank out on you BADLY. I find 3 gate robo all ins MUCH stronger than typical 4 gate. My friend does them, and until I learned to draw him to his base, I couldn't stop it. He's 2k, and even beat my 2.6k friend with that crap. Chronos out zeals early, 5-6, 1-2 stalkers, 2 sentries and an immortal and pulls 75% probes and hits.


Whenever you see a good protoss target those PDDs with sentries and they die after blocking only 2 volleys, and he eats you up, you'll understand why lol. To beat banshees, it's all about how they handle the battle in my mind as a fellow terran. I'd suggest keeping those banshees out of your base AS LONG as possible. Hit and run, hit and run. Force OBs and phoenix, as his ground army will then lack.

I get 4-6 banshees max, by then they collsai up and it's a bit hard to target them vs vikings.

If it works for you though brother, keep it up. Just a tip, target sentries first when you PDD down.

On December 03 2010 08:49 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I still think the proper way of doing a TvP port build is 1-1-1 or 2 Rax FE. 1-1-1 to do it before many stalkers are out or build up to about 4 barracks to start pressuring and then tech to SPs to supplement your army(3 Tech Labs, 1 Reactor). If you can pick off enough stalkers, then your slower banshees will probably perform better than faster banshees that fly into a wall of stalkers.

On December 03 2010 08:41 kcdc wrote:

I don't think just adding bunkers is going to cut it. There's a reason why nobody simultaneously fast expands and techs 1-1-1. Abusing your choke and without sinking minerals into an expansion, you just barely have enough units off of 1-1-1 to defend gateway pressure. If you want to secure your nat, you need more early barracks units.

On December 03 2010 10:36 Antisocialmunky wrote:
No problem. Like I said before, one of the main issues issues you should consider is that since this is a 'reveal' type build, you're going to want to mislead Toss a much as possible. Trick him with a 2 Rax FE and pop the obs he sends with your raven. I think the timings work out pretty well for the Raven.

This is more for when Toss gets used to this. This also gives you a viable abort into MMM Tank if you see Toss overreact to Banshee(cannon). If I have learned one thing from Marine/Raven, people figure out opennings pretty quick especially if people start winning Tourneys with this.

On December 04 2010 02:41 w_Ender_w wrote:
I saw this yesterday and decided to try it out against my Protoss practice partner. I opened each time with a 2 rax expand (with some bunker pressure with my first few units when he let me get away with it) against his 1 gate FEs. I was able to really consistently find a nice timing where I would add two Starports basically as soon as I could afford it after placing the expansion, letting me get a little harassment in and delay any sort of aggression. Add two more Starports after that and roll over to his base with a very significant amount of banshee with MM support. It seems pretty hard for the Protoss to hold it. I actually dont mind if they overreact to the banshee because transitioning into MMM is quite easy and most players will overreact to the harassment and not particularly consider the banshee as an army unit.

On December 04 2010 03:54 MockHamill wrote:
I have tried it out twice so far. First time I got cannon rushed followed by DTs so GG. Next time he used a warp prism to take out my main base before I could mass enough units.

3 Bunkers is a good idea but since Protoss so easily can bypass the bunkers with warp prisms I am not sure if this build is viable. You do not have enough units to defend against an attack that skips your bunkers.

On December 04 2010 03:59 Synystyr wrote:
I love all these different options people are coming up with this is very very good option with an easy abort over to MMM! I like it. I'll have to tally all these up at some point and add it on to the main post. Thank you very much!! Keep it up

On December 04 2010 03:54 MockHamill wrote:
I have tried it out twice so far. First time I got cannon rushed followed by DTs so GG. Next time he used a warp prism to take out my main base before I could mass enough units.

3 Bunkers is a good idea but since Protoss so easily can bypass the bunkers with warp prisms I am not sure if this build is viable. You do not have enough units to defend against an attack that skips your bunkers.

On December 04 2010 04:24 w_Ender_w wrote:


Glad you like it. I saved the replays from the games we played last night, if you're particularly interested. Its certainly a fun build, and a nice change of pace from the usual pure bio play you're often forced to rely on in the match up.



Yeah, but these are things you need to take into account no matter what build you do. The nice thing about an FE build is that by the time you need to make a decision on what tech you go you should be able to scout these plays.

Edit: Oh and Antisocialmunky, I love your TvZ Marine/Raven build. If people like this kind of build for some alternate playstyles, they ought to check his thread out as well.