EPT[G] Synystyr's TvP Anti Colossus Build - Page 25
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Pachwa
57 Posts
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Garth
United States353 Posts
I will give this build fact and that there is a strongggg timing you can do before the protoss switches to phoenix. I don't think its too viable if scouted early though. | ||
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Pachwa
57 Posts
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
Sky Terran at it's finest. Heck imo, I thought Jinro didn't even execute it thaaaat well but he still rolled San. Haha I was on the edge of my seat when I saw the 2nd obs scout. Jinro did everything right in the initial engagement, I just don't favor his opener. SO AWESOME! I'm so happy :D And the BC transition was baller. I knew it'd be the nail the coffin. Good stuff :D | ||
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jlai
Hong Kong63 Posts
Thanks for sharing this build to us. It's been my standard build against protoss. Just a quick question on defending toss pressure right before 1st thor coming out. I put 3 bunkers in natural for map Backwater Gulch but i faced a stalker with heavy sentries army which FF-ed my bunkers and i couldn't use SCV auto repairing at all. Also he attacked at an angle that only 2 bunkers were attacking his army. I still won the game by switching to thor heavy army and abused the PDD. But any advice on how to deal with this better? Thanks! | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
On April 24 2011 01:22 jlai wrote: Hi Synystyr, Thanks for sharing this build to us. It's been my standard build against protoss. Just a quick question on defending toss pressure right before 1st thor coming out. I put 3 bunkers in natural for map Backwater Gulch but i faced a stalker with heavy sentries army which FF-ed my bunkers and i couldn't use SCV auto repairing at all. Also he attacked at an angle that only 2 bunkers were attacking his army. I still won the game by switching to thor heavy army and abused the PDD. But any advice on how to deal with this better? Thanks! More bunkers, try to spread them out a bit vertically and horizontally so that he has to force field each one separately. if you don't have enough units to fill all the bunkers, leave the front ones with less units because those ones won't be repairable for sure and the units inside will get isolated. | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On April 24 2011 01:30 statikg wrote: More bunkers, try to spread them out a bit vertically and horizontally so that he has to force field each one separately. if you don't have enough units to fill all the bunkers, leave the front ones with less units because those ones won't be repairable for sure and the units inside will get isolated. Pretty much this. I personally would 2 Rax Stim expand on that map, because of the threat of the backdoor rocks being broken and your bunkers getting bypassed. However, bunkers are viable on that map too and I would follow Statikg's advice. If he's that heavy on sentries that he can FF multiple bunkers from being repaired, then his army DPS is much lower than what it needs to be to take out 3 bunkers + repair + marines. Pull SCVs if you have to. Cheers! | ||
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implicit
United States12 Posts
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makesomenoiiise
United Kingdom78 Posts
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jlai
Hong Kong63 Posts
On April 24 2011 02:03 Synystyr wrote: Pretty much this. I personally would 2 Rax Stim expand on that map, because of the threat of the backdoor rocks being broken and your bunkers getting bypassed. However, bunkers are viable on that map too and I would follow Statikg's advice. If he's that heavy on sentries that he can FF multiple bunkers from being repaired, then his army DPS is much lower than what it needs to be to take out 3 bunkers + repair + marines. Pull SCVs if you have to. Cheers! Thank you guys. Will follow your advice. I think maybe i pulled my SCVs a bit slow as well. many thx! | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On April 24 2011 02:31 implicit wrote: I knew the day would come that this build(in spirit at least) would be in the gsl... meta change inc? I suuuuure hope so! :D On April 24 2011 10:20 makesomenoiiise wrote: I cannot thank you enough, I love Banshees, and I love BCs even more. Cannot wait to start using this, however, do you think it is viable to go for ship upgrades before transitioning to BCs? In my experience, whenever using BCs, they are so much better with upgrades, and not particularly cost effective without upgrades. Since the upgrades would also benefit the banshees before transitioning into BCs, it seems like this would be a good idea? What do you think? I think if you cut a couple banshees to start Ship Plating, that's fine. It's absolutely worth the gas expenditure in the late game and it's something I need to start implementing in my own games. 3 Armor BCs are the ULTIMATE tanks :D | ||
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Spiner
United States360 Posts
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HypernovA
Canada556 Posts
On April 25 2011 12:51 Spiner wrote: Synstyr have you ever encountered a protoss going 1 base colossus push against this build? I've only run into it a few times but each time I got murdered because it hits when you only have marines in your bunkers and no thors out yet. It seems to be the hard counter to the build although protoss rarely use this push. Any ideas on how to defend against this? If you don't scout an expansion, I'd tech straight to banshees. | ||
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
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RukKus
United States197 Posts
Here's a question, In Synystyr's replays I see a lot of pushes around 14:00, which is exactly when my pushes occur with ~10 Banshee. It's a very strong timing., However, what would happen if I waited to push until a little later, waiting for 1/1 and perhaps even a few BC? This is assuming that my opponent has not yet scouted my 4 Port, of course. Does this build get stronger as it grows, or is the 14:00 timing necessary to exploit? Thanks! | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On April 25 2011 12:51 Spiner wrote: Synstyr have you ever encountered a protoss going 1 base colossus push against this build? I've only run into it a few times but each time I got murdered because it hits when you only have marines in your bunkers and no thors out yet. It seems to be the hard counter to the build although protoss rarely use this push. Any ideas on how to defend against this? I have, and it's all about delaying until your Thor+Banshee pop out. As soon as you kill the observer (if there is one), you will be able to push Protoss back by focusing the Colossus down. Once you are able to do that, you should be ahead or at least even with your opponent and your unit composition later on should be superior because Protoss went so deep down one tech tree. Repair to delay, pull back and use your CC as a damage soaker while waiting. On April 25 2011 13:30 RukKus wrote: I've been using this build a lot more, and winning nearly every game with it! Yesss! Here's a question, In Synystyr's replays I see a lot of pushes around 14:00, which is exactly when my pushes occur with ~10 Banshee. It's a very strong timing., However, what would happen if I waited to push until a little later, waiting for 1/1 and perhaps even a few BC? This is assuming that my opponent has not yet scouted my 4 Port, of course. Does this build get stronger as it grows, or is the 14:00 timing necessary to exploit? Thanks! If your opponent is going heavy heavy Chargelot/Colossi or is significantly lacking in AA, then yes, the longer you can macro up an Air based army, the harder it will be for Protoss to deal with it. There will be absolutely no way for him to get an army out fast enough that can deal with what you have. If you can reach BCs safely and unscouted (though I doubt that should EVER happen), then you win. You have to be diligent about your scouting. If it goes later into the game and your opponent gets HTs out, you could be in big trouble if you mismicro against storms. The longer the game goes, the more storms you'll have to deal with. The best possible timing window you can attack with is when your opponent has already committed to a heavy ground force and scouts your play. He has to transition as fast as possible and you can abuse this huge window from there. You should also push as soon as you see a Stargate or Templar Archives just starting. Those are great timing windows to abuse because they are in the process of transitioning and will be very weak before they can mass the proper units out. | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
PROTOSS Archons are now a massive unit. No effect, we don't use Conc. Shells Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5. Makes it much easier to stop proxy warp ins that try and bypass our bunkers Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180. Obviously 4 Gate timings will be later, which means bunkers are guaranteed to go up and should be easier to defend early pushes Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37. Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37. Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33. Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged. Zealot/Stalker pokes early on can be very dangerous if the Protoss has good micro, you don't, and they decide to keep reinforcing it. The lower build time makes for proxy gateways to be powerful if unscouted and you are unprepared. TERRAN Ghost cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. A buff in my eyes. This means that we can implement Ghosts into this playstyle! This brings the cost of a Ghost to just a little more than a Banshee and will be very easy to synergize into the army once we get our third base. Will be good to use against HT tech. Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%. A nerf is a nerf. With only 3 bunkers going down we only lose 75 minerals, which we already have a surplus of anyways so this shouldn't affect the flow of the build. Bug Fixes Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location. Doesn't hurt us  Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other.If this means Banshees can't stack, then Psi Storms will be HUGELY mitigated. I like where this is going :D Overall, I think the most important aspect of this patch is the Ghost change. Warpgate rushes were never really a problem for the openers used for this build anyways so it just means an even safer early game. I'll take it. However, the Ghost change opens up a new avenue. After we get our third base and see what tech path the Protoss decides to take to deal with air, we can either go BCs or Ghosts instead. If Protoss goes Stargate tech, it'd be wise to make BCs while HT tech would force Ghosts to deal with them. I'm excited for this patch :D What are your thoughts? | ||
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Rexar123
Croatia49 Posts
if needed ill post every replay i have vs toss and im 5th diamomd league playin vs diamondmaster opppnents only counter is 3gate starhgate thays why only 90& | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On April 26 2011 20:47 Rexar123 wrote: exytremely good build i do it on 1 base with 2 ports cquse its safer and i love wining vs toss who think are netter than me i have atleast 90& win rate if needed ill post every replay i have vs toss and im 5th diamomd league playin vs diamondmaster opppnents only counter is 3gate starhgate thays why only 90& This build and 2 Port Banshee are worlds apart  I wouldn't consider them the same at all. You'll find that once you hit higher Diamond/Masters, 2 Port Banshee won't work quite as well because it is very much a 1 Base allin that's not too difficult to defend once Protoss realizes it. Regardless, it once again displays how powerful Terran air is against Protoss | ||
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