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[G] Synystyr's TvP Anti Colossus Build - Page 24

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Trakky
Profile Joined February 2011
95 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 18:52:13
April 12 2011 18:51 GMT
#461
If you watch sjow vs whitera just now, sjow went 4port with BCs and his banshees did deal a heavy amount of damage to the probe line of whitera throughout the whole game. However, whitera went late double forge and ofcourse when you go double forge, you don't use robo at all except for obs so he used his gas on blink/charge and went for Hts because he already got TWC. I don't want to spoil anything here but you should watch the last battle. there's also another good Terran in the TSL who used 4port but failed (forgot who it was).
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
April 12 2011 18:53 GMT
#462
On April 13 2011 03:51 Trakky wrote:
If you watch sjow vs whitera just now, sjow went 4port with BCs and his banshees did deal a heavy amount of damage to the probe line of whitera throughout the whole game. However, whitera went late double forge and ofcourse when you go double forge, you don't use robo at all except for obs so he used his gas on blink/charge and went for Hts because he already got TWC. I don't want to spoil anything here but you should watch the last battle.


I watched it. He lost because he didn't have Banshee support in the last battle. There was nothing there to deal with the Stalkers. Marines in this army composition are not meant to last, and Sjow relied too heavily on them. I don't think this was the proper way of playing this style, but I did enjoy watching it and hope that people can take away a few good things from it.
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
Trakky
Profile Joined February 2011
95 Posts
April 12 2011 19:07 GMT
#463
Well, he was on 3 bases spending all his resources on marines and air units. So if he used 90% of his resources on his ports, having only 3 BCs in the last battle, how could he get more banshees? the supplies were dead even before the battle with whitera having like 100 probes (so less army supply) and the loss were like 1:10 ratio.
Polypunk
Profile Joined April 2011
24 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 19:15:54
April 12 2011 19:15 GMT
#464
it was obvious that sjow didn't have a solid version of this build down, he really needed more banshees, less BC's, and an expo with more than 1 gas.
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
April 12 2011 19:16 GMT
#465
On April 13 2011 04:07 Trakky wrote:
Well, he was on 3 bases spending all his resources on marines and air units. So if he used 90% of his resources on his ports, having only 3 BCs in the last battle, how could he get more banshees? the supplies were dead even before the battle with whitera having like 100 probes (so less army supply) and the loss were like 1:10 ratio.


BCs take a really long time to build. That means he could have had at least twice the amount of Banshees instead of BCs instead. 3 BCs vs ~ 8+ cloaked banshees. With the Viking count he had and a couple scans, he could've pushed that back no problen, He teched to BCs without having proper defense on the ground. Stalkers do very well vs BCs, but not when there are Banshees mixed in. Also, a huge portion of Sjow's supply was marines, which are virtually useless in that lategame situation.
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
Washow
Profile Joined March 2010
Korea (South)119 Posts
April 12 2011 19:55 GMT
#466
I watched that game too and he made like 15 vikings for no god damn reason at all. He had his few banshees fly all over white-ra's base and KNEW he wasn't going colossi so I have no idea why he made so many vikings.

Plus his banshees were annoying at best and didn't do much damage. At the end he threw away like 5 banshees at cannons instead of bringing them back home and repair.

Really bad play by him. That wasn't this 4port banshee build at all
HypernovA
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada556 Posts
April 14 2011 01:50 GMT
#467
This build works really well.

I usually get bio as well with this build and it just owns so hard. Transitioning into Battlecruisers in the end game is extremely deadly. I like to throw in a couple of ravens.
DragonDefonce
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States790 Posts
April 14 2011 05:52 GMT
#468
It seems fickle to me... you are saving up a lot of power expecting your opponent will go colossus tech. Lots of protoss are moving away from the colossus to go more gateways and upgrades, as templars got nerfed hard, and there are so many anti colossus builds out like this one. Seems to do what its meant to do well though. I do hate banshees lol.
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
April 14 2011 06:23 GMT
#469
SjoW said in an interview right after the game (it was on the Swedish stream) that he had never used BCs before. He wanted to open Raven + Banshee and snipe the Obs to do a lot of harass, but when that failed he thought his best option was a BC transition since he already had three Starports. I wouldn't judge BC viability off of that game.
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
April 14 2011 13:08 GMT
#470
On April 13 2011 04:55 Washow wrote:
I watched that game too and he made like 15 vikings for no god damn reason at all. He had his few banshees fly all over white-ra's base and KNEW he wasn't going colossi so I have no idea why he made so many vikings.

Plus his banshees were annoying at best and didn't do much damage. At the end he threw away like 5 banshees at cannons instead of bringing them back home and repair.

Really bad play by him. That wasn't this 4port banshee build at all


Yeah, the number of vikings he had was absurd...There really was no justification for it. Too many vikings, losing banshees to silly things and not enough banshees to support his BCs was what lost him the game. Better luck next time!

On April 14 2011 10:50 Velladin wrote:
This build works really well.

I usually get bio as well with this build and it just owns so hard. Transitioning into Battlecruisers in the end game is extremely deadly. I like to throw in a couple of ravens.


Sounds like the 2 Rax Stim expand works well for you Heavier bio means you might want up to 5 Barracks instead and cutting a few Banshees in favor for that. Not my style personally since Colossi/Chargelot/FF would still fuck you up =[ Extra ravens do help though!

On April 14 2011 14:52 DragonDefonce wrote:
It seems fickle to me... you are saving up a lot of power expecting your opponent will go colossus tech. Lots of protoss are moving away from the colossus to go more gateways and upgrades, as templars got nerfed hard, and there are so many anti colossus builds out like this one. Seems to do what its meant to do well though. I do hate banshees lol.


Even if the Protoss goes another tech route other than Robo, this build has everything it needs to deal with it. I'd like to look at it as another viable playstyle, just like MMMVG. It's solid, nothing really hard counters it and can punish your opponent extremely well if they do a Robo heavy build

On April 14 2011 15:23 hugman wrote:
SjoW said in an interview right after the game (it was on the Swedish stream) that he had never used BCs before. He wanted to open Raven + Banshee and snipe the Obs to do a lot of harass, but when that failed he thought his best option was a BC transition since he already had three Starports. I wouldn't judge BC viability off of that game.


That's good to hear I hope he tries practicing with it more! With his micro, he could definitely get it to work much better than I can. His banshee harass is excellent I've always liked the idea of harassing with a couple Vikings + Raven to snipe observers and let your banshees eat mineral lines unstopped. Will have to try it!
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
April 22 2011 17:40 GMT
#471
I've got a question for Protoss....how often do you see this playstyle when you ladder and what league are you in? Did you win or lose and how/why? I'm interested to see where the usage of this build stands. Terran as well, how often do you guys use mass Air? Any decent results?

I also did some minor editing to the OP, placed a disclaimer as well. I don't recommend this to any players below High Plat/Diamond level because of how precise you need to be with this. Thanks!
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
statikg
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada930 Posts
April 22 2011 19:03 GMT
#472
I am using my slightly modified version with more thors and less banshees at 600masters almost every game these days with a very high win rate. In fact, when I survive past opening aggression my win rate is 90%. Occasionally I still lose to surprising/non-standard early aggression.

The only thing I have had trouble with is if they manage to set up a sort of 3gate soft contain on my quick expansion and expand before me and then they realize that I'm not very strong they use that advantage to take a fast ~10min 3rd. My push doesn't come until around 16minutes so that has time to pay for itself. Other then that though my 16minute push has never been held off by any combination of units.
InvincibleRice
Profile Joined March 2011
United States38 Posts
April 22 2011 21:09 GMT
#473
I'm a low level Terran (plat) and I use this build almost exclusively in TvP. I don't think I've had a straight up BO loss with this yet; I lose, of course, but it feels like I can always attribute those losses to user errors.

Overall, I'd call this a very solid build, and I don't necessarily think you had to tack on the no gold caveat.
Garth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States353 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-22 21:32:29
April 22 2011 21:30 GMT
#474
On April 23 2011 02:40 Synystyr wrote:
I've got a question for Protoss....how often do you see this playstyle when you ladder and what league are you in? Did you win or lose and how/why? I'm interested to see where the usage of this build stands. Terran as well, how often do you guys use mass Air? Any decent results?

I also did some minor editing to the OP, placed a disclaimer as well. I don't recommend this to any players below High Plat/Diamond level because of how precise you need to be with this. Thanks!


Rank 350ish in NA at masters ( so rank 150 masters). I won because I did triple stargate phoenix after my obs saw multiple tech lab starports.

I've seen this build about twice. One I lost, one I won. I lost because I was in diamond or plat and I tried to do stalker collosus and didn't know how good phoenix were at killing banshees and ravens.
rmAmnesiac
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom185 Posts
April 22 2011 22:23 GMT
#475
in build order 2 you might want to add when you take your 3rd racks.
RukKus
Profile Joined October 2010
United States197 Posts
April 22 2011 22:45 GMT
#476
I have been using the 2rax stim opener and this build with great success in custom testing so far. Against other high diamond players of my skill level. This build is the bane to my Protoss buddy who has tried everything to beat it, including 4 gate, blink stalkers, phoenix, storm (which doesn't come soon enough). Each game, I push spot on at 14:00 and leave a trail of destruction in my wake each time.

However I have not yet been successful on ladder where there are many other early aggressive pushes that push back the build significantly. All of it is preventable with more practice, requiring me to get Bunkers earlier and throwing my timings off. I would like to make this build standard for my ladder play on macro-based larger maps and longer games. But until then I'll stick to my 1rax FE into 6 rax bio play
Micro... Kill Kill! Macro ... Build Build! ... Micro ... Kill Kill! Macro ... Build Build... Stim...RAAAAAGE!
Hjalte
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark7 Posts
April 23 2011 01:43 GMT
#477
Thanks a lot for ruining my day, i just played vs this shit twice -_-
SoftSoap
Profile Joined November 2010
United States170 Posts
April 23 2011 02:29 GMT
#478
On April 23 2011 02:40 Synystyr wrote:
I've got a question for Protoss....how often do you see this playstyle when you ladder and what league are you in? Did you win or lose and how/why? I'm interested to see where the usage of this build stands. Terran as well, how often do you guys use mass Air? Any decent results?

I also did some minor editing to the OP, placed a disclaimer as well. I don't recommend this to any players below High Plat/Diamond level because of how precise you need to be with this. Thanks!


I find that terrans are starting to get more heavier on air units as im running into many 2 port banshee builds timed with a raven PDD push. Rather than a 4 port. But rarely do I see people transition into BC's like fellow SynyStyr you; who is inactive on sc2 1 week.
Tasteless, "IdrA always pulls out on time."
BlackXGold11
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4 Posts
April 23 2011 04:02 GMT
#479
Since learning this build, I have jumped up two leagues, and have won a huge majority of my games v. Toss. I would just like to add that after you have utterly destroyed their army, you should prioritize which buildings you are to attack. I like to shut down unit production prioritizing stargates, then gateways. Then, make sure you get rid of any forge, then destroy their nexi.
"Got no patience for sittin' around" (Goes into seige mode...)
SovietHammer
Profile Joined March 2011
United States166 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 05:29:58
April 23 2011 05:29 GMT
#480
JINRO doing this right now in gsl!!!!

EDIT: By doing, i meant rolling san zenith
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