[G] Synystyr's TvP Anti Colossus Build - Page 13

The Banshee is a Light unit!

As a light unit, the banshee only takes 10 damage per shot from the stalker, which allows the banshee to take 14 hits before dying to one stalker, whereas it only takes a banshee 7 shots to kill a banshee. In a one-on-one encounter, the banshee flies away with half its health left. Unmicroed, A Protoss would need twice as many stalkers as there are banshees to win an encounter. Very reasonable for a Protoss, as mass banshee is not part of the current PvT metagame, and stalkers are very easily spammable. But when faced with 8-10 banshees 12 minutes into a game, this changes up VERY quickly!

On February 05 2011 12:11 iChau wrote:


A small error that you can fix. ^_^

On February 07 2011 01:53 Gecko wrote:
Ummmm yeah.... i know i said a couple pages back that i did not think this would work. I'm definitely a believer now. The only way i was able to come even against this was to go 2base robo with two stargates making phoenixes and VRs along with colossi and zealots for the marines. Hallucinate is also something i discovered to be helpful, you need hallucinated phoenixes to confirm what is actually happening because observers simply will not do when ravens are out, and going blind double stargate is bad against almost everything else. Basically if you do this and P went some sort of double robo or heavy gateway units with colossi he is royally screwed.

On February 07 2011 06:43 Synystyr wrote:


^.-

Protoss should emulate oGsMC in his play style if they want to deal with this. If you watched GSL3, he never ever opened with colossus first, but opted for stargate, blink or templar play very quickly and his win/loss ratio vs Terran was incredible. Against a player like MC, I don't know how well this build would fare....it's nearly impossible to lose against any kind of robo first play, but against a smarter player, I'd like to find out.

Can't wait to see pros use air more

On February 07 2011 08:18 Gecko wrote:


I played three games against your build with a practice partner. I always opened with a 2gate robo build. The first one i made no air and i suffered an embarrassing loss, enough to make me rage at a good friend hehehe... The second game i made one stargate and it did good against the banshees but some clutch cruisers sealed the game for my opponent.

The third game was the best, i had begun researching hallucination whenever the raven appeared so i could continue scouting and confirm the 4port. I had formulated a decent response, I basically did a normal expand and get colossi style. I would have 4 warpgates and a robotics as my base, and then when i saw the mass air transition i added two stargates (if its normal bio i normally only add one). Then i made a shit-ton of phoenixes and VRs to support my colossi.

My mass of zealots and colossi were devastating to the marines and thors, and the phoenixes ate banshees like they were nothing. VRs are just awesome against battlecruisers and Thors. Then i switched to Carriers instead of mass VRs and died to the battlecruisers like a retard.

Still, this build is tough but with some work i can beat it or at least make out even. I think it is an interesting alternative to Bio and people will win a lot of games with it before protoss have the timings down. also hallucination like i said is amazing, chrono boost lets you get it out fast enough to react to a raven trying to deny observer scouting.

EDIT:
TLDR i guess what i am trying to say is that the way protoss are playing this is beatable with a little practice.

On February 07 2011 12:30 Synystyr wrote:


Wow, sounds like some really solid games! I like how it sounds Would it be possible to attach those replays to a post? I'd really love to take a look at them and see what went down!

I was actually very worried about the latest patch and how it would effect this build. Faster phoenix + hallucination research time makes for more solid scout via hallu Phoenix, and then being able to crank out an insane amount of phoenixs out after the build has been scouted in the window before the attack. Luckily, I've yet to play someone who's used hallucination to scout me, but I'm sure it'll happen eventually!

Mass air for Toss is the answer to this, with VRs killing BCs and Thors incredibly fast, while Phoenix chew up the Banshees. Toss in a decent number of chargelots and your marines are sliced like butter. Upgrades really help however and Yamato on VRs + adding a few vikings will make things much easier on the Terran's side.

On February 07 2011 13:43 Dhalphir wrote:
The key thing for Protoss in beating this build is that although this build is technically an anti-colossus build, you should still build Colossus. You just need to throw in some phoenixes as well. The Colossi will live long enough to kill most of the marines which leaves your stalkers and Phoenix/Void Rays alive to clean up banshees.

On February 07 2011 13:30 Gecko wrote:


I did not save all the replays but here is one of the better ones that were saved. Basically this game demonstrates how anything not called a VR will lose to yamato cannon BCs. Stalker/templar sounds good but it just blows if the BC count gets huge, later games showed that going air only and supplementing your existing phoenixes with 5 or 6 stargates pumping VRs works way better.

This also does demonstrate how phoenix/colossus is a viable midgame plan against this but like i said, when you see the BCs you need to begin adding void rays. I lost this game but it shows some good points.

[url blocked]

On February 07 2011 13:41 Darpa wrote:
Looks like a fair precarious opener into a really strong midgame. I like it. Gonna give it a shot (2700) and ill post back.

On February 07 2011 13:50 Talack wrote:
The key thing for Protoss in beating this build is that although this build is technically an anti-colossus build, you should still build Colossus. You just need to throw in some phoenixes as well. The Colossi will live long enough to kill most of the marines which leaves your stalkers and Phoenix/Void Rays alive to clean up banshees.

On February 07 2011 13:43 Dhalphir wrote:
Even bringing your phoenixs away from the thors until the thors are dead is a pretty good way to beat the main push for this.

On February 08 2011 01:58 statikg wrote:
If you are going to be adding thors into your unit composition you definitely need to cut out a starport. The gas from thors and 4starports needs 3 bases of gas, although I suppose if they don't have many phoenixes you dont need many thors.

On February 08 2011 02:22 statikg wrote:
Ah well i was thinking more thors would optimize your BO (less infrastructure wasted) and thors are very strong for cost (even against immortals with 250mm), but I guess if you manage to trick them into immortal/chargelot that would be pretty awesome.

The interesting thing with this composition is micro is going to be so important, if they are collosus heavy you want your thors in front to tank for your marines but if they have heavy phoenixes you MAY want your marines in front...but if they have phenoix and collosus then its hard to say whats best. Probably still thors in front I would guess because if you can knock out those collosus before they start ripping into your marines thats gonna be so huge.

This composition is gonna be owned by HT though, it does have room for a transition into blue flame hellions though in that case.