[G] Synystyr's TvP Anti Colossus Build - Page 11

On December 17 2010 11:25 Liquid_Adun wrote:
The shift in popularity of the Templar may cause this build to be less effective, in addition to this we have phoinexs being more practical because they take a lot less time to build. The design of the build is nice but its becoming alot more risky. Not to mention the usefulness of feedback. At any rate ill give it a go and see how to works. Rather ill get my practice partner to use it so i can play against it.

Thanks for the nice build, Adun

On December 14 2010 02:52 snrcrackles wrote:
I think I'm just pulling this build off wrong. I've palyed a few more games against protoss, and I'm having a bit of trouble. My marines die instantly to HTs and that leaves banshees to get torn apart by stalkers. I've gone back to my marine marauder ghost timing push.

On December 17 2010 22:30 RaraOoLala wrote:
cheese

On December 18 2010 22:30 Setev wrote:


Admins, why isn't this guy temp banned/warned?

Anyway, back to topic, do you guys think that having one raven or two with the viking/banshee composition be better than using scans? Imagine the amount minerals saved which can be use for MM re-macroing.

On December 17 2010 22:30 RaraOoLala wrote:
cheese

On December 19 2010 05:22 heyyouyesyou wrote:


Because going 4starport banshee off 2 bases while viable is still kinda cheesy.
wiki.teamliquid says: "Cheese most often refers to an unexpected strategy that relies on large parts on secrecy and/or psychological impact on the opponent.

Players use cheese to force a more unbalanced game. The unbalanced nature of cheese usually serve to make decision making on the defending side more fatal. Thus, the cheesing player is given a chance to come back from an otherwise lost game or the possibility to outwit a stronger opponent. A common form in practice is to neglect a long term viable economy to be able to produce a couple of extra units for attack.

A main characteristic of cheese is whatever the form, if scouted in time and answered correctly, it will almost surely fail and put the executed player at a severe disadvantage."

It even says in the guide that after you get your raven out you need to shut down the obs and effectively the protoss opponents scouting methods. If the protoss scouts 4starport banshee hes going to go 2starport phenoix and start cranking out obs to detect. With the marines getting wiped out easily from splash damage the thing that makes this build work is that the protoss wont expect or be able to scout the number of banshees you have.
I agree with Rara while this build is very strong and well thought out its strength still relies on the protoss not to scout it which would make it a cheese.
And yes a cheese can happen in the late game. Remember TvP in SC BW? The terran would build up an army and secure 3bases with a small amount of siege tanks vultures and goliaths and attack the protoss when they took a 3rd base to do the most damage because the protoss would be low on money for reinforcements. Very common cheeses for protoss to do were 2base carrier and arbiter builds that delayed the 3rd or trigger for terran to attack and then doom drop the terrans main or use carriers to push the goliath low army back or even out right destroy it.

On December 19 2010 06:26 heyyouyesyou wrote:
Its not that your trying to deny scouting that would make your build cheesy its that if the protoss can scout it the effectiveness reduces greatly.

On December 17 2010 22:18 SoftSoap wrote:


I don't think feedbacks would hit enough banshees. Sure you would get like 2 or 3 from what I've experienced, but the rest will cloak and if the terran is good enough they will cloak even faster. You can't feedback cloaked units thats the problem :S. Once their cloaked, if the templars waste energy on feedback, they wont be as cost effective if they were using storm.

User was temp banned for this post.

On December 23 2010 13:05 Doz wrote:
I've read everything up to this point, and I like the idea of adding in a Thor or two. From watching your reps and the B.O., my thoughts are to get your raven building, hold off on cloak research until after you drop an armory and tech lab the factory. When you get to the point where you'd normally drop 3 more Ports, just make it 2 additional seeing as the Thor's will cost twice the gas as a banshee. The end push would look something more like 40-50 marines, 2 Thor, and 5-6 banshees, and should hit at pretty close to the same time.

Haven't implemented the Thor's yet into my own play, but it basically looks and acts like the mid to late-game Thor/Banshee/Marine closer a good number of Terrans are using against Zerg. Any thoughts or personal experiences in trying the idea?

On December 24 2010 07:31 Antisocialmunky wrote:
You'd barely be able to sustain 3 ports and 1 factor but its doable if you delay or skip cloak. If you could get both Stim and shield, you'd be pretty set. I would also look into getting +1 air weapons if you want to flip over to BC construction after the push.

On December 28 2010 12:56 Blyadischa wrote:
After using the opening expansions and doing variations of the build, I found that the build isn't safe enough (at least on the maps I play, I choose to play xelnaga caverns and delta quad, because I find backdoor rocks to be more of a problem than a non wall-in-able front with this build), and sacrificing early economy for some safety is worth it, because your economy will be crazy after it gets started up.

What I do now is 1 rax, cc, bunker, gas, 1 rax, 2 more bunkers, ebay, rax, then tech up, the gas on the expansions need to be taken earlier, and turret should be put between / a little ahead of 2 of the bunkers as soon as ebay is up.

This, although some what less, of a clean way to spend money and gets your tech up later, gets your bunkers filled up faster against 4gate (although your build already beats 4 gate rushes), gets you more marines against blink stalkers, and the turret helps against fast dt's and 3gate void ray rushes a lot, which are strategies that have beaten me before.

On January 02 2011 14:04 iAmJeffReY wrote:
The new problem with toss is is it going to be a 3 gate robo push, a 2 gate robo expo, 1 gate expo, 4 gate, 3 gate VR (BIG TROUBLEEE!!!)

So many opens to choose from, and each one requires different unit set / aggression cycle, and they can hide so well >_<

I'm tired of losing to straight DT tech because I'm skurrred to run up the ramp due to sentries!