This. If the Toss is storming the burrowed roaches then he is wasting Templar energy, regardless if stalkers/Colossi are attacking them. Quick Burrow split into two groups should be suffice, or other options would be (if you have a large roach army) is to follow the Toss army while burrowed so they cannot storm without hurting themselves.

EDIT:

Watching the replay. Not going to sugar coat it, you fucked up pretty hard. 8:30mins into the Game and the Toss has 1 Colossus without range, 1 Stalker and 2 Zealots, 1 Gateway not turned into a warpgate and 1 Robotics. If you just attack moved his base you would have won.

EDIT 2:

11mins into the game you suicide an overlord to see that he has only 2 gateway, 2 robos, 3 colossus, 3 Stalkers and 2 Zealots yet you do nothing about it, you had such a big army at that stage yet you didn't attack. What is the point of saccing an overlord if you aren't going to react to what he is doing?

What are you talking about ?

storm is 2x higher dps then burrowed hps....Not to mention that your whole burrowed army is getting shelled by the rest of the toss army.

DanceSC

United States751 Posts

November 25 2010 14:06 GMT

#25

I had a game where my Zerg opponent mass'd Roach (surprise!) and I stormed his army about 20 times over and he just kept burrowing them and letting them regenerate it all back before popping them back up and continuing their annoying assault. By the time i got my observer there he had already killed half my army, and his roaches were back to full hp. Used FF to cut his army in half but he just burrowed and moved under them and waited for the FF to disappear.

I had an ob with me when we first attacked, i flooded his entire army with storm, and kept it going. but the storm killed my ob when I attack clicked over to him, the zeals no longer had a visual target and ran into the storm, and his roaches were regenerating hp at the same pace the storm was taking it from them..

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

November 25 2010 14:09 GMT

#26

On November 25 2010 22:48 Gotmog wrote:

Show nested quote +

What are you talking about ?

storm is 2x higher dps then burrowed hps....Not to mention that your whole burrowed army is getting shelled by the rest of the toss army.

Yes, if the toss has the templar energy to cover a roach army moving underground constantly underground. I don't understand how you can say it isn't effective, it is the way you beat Psi-storm and it works really well. There was even a day[9] Daily show where a Zerg did it to amazing effect, and that was back when roaches had only 3 range...

Akatsuki1012

Philippines41 Posts

November 25 2010 15:40 GMT

#27

But all this talk about the roach burrow would only apply if a) your army composition would compose only or mostly compose of roaches, if you have some hydras along, you'd leave them to die. and b) your opponent has no observer

Akatsuki1012

Philippines41 Posts

November 25 2010 15:42 GMT

#28

Anyways thank you everyone, even to you Ummbeefy, as condescending and slightly offending your post was, it was still good advice. ^.^ Cheers!

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

November 25 2010 15:50 GMT

#29

On November 26 2010 00:40 Akatsuki1012 wrote:
But all this talk about the roach burrow would only apply if a) your army composition would compose only or mostly compose of roaches, if you have some hydras along, you'd leave them to die. and b) your opponent has no observer

No it doesn't assume any of that, toss can use observers and Roach burrow tactics still work quite well. If Toss go Templars then their ground army isn't as strong as a pure robo composition, they rely on storms doing a good amount of damage. Burrowed roaches can negate quite abit of that, eventually you move on to Ultralisks and Storm becomes worthless. Yes at the start you have to pump out more roaches, but that is a given, Toss doesn't stay on gateway units forever to deal with Hydras, neither to Zerg go into late late game with Terran with only T2, transitions have to be made depending on what the game is currently like.

Even then, if you were switching from Corrupter to roaches to deal with the added Templar tech, you can bring one or two overseers into the battle and snipe observers with left over corruptors. Storm isn't that great vs Zerg, ideally you want a voidray robo army, but generally you end up with a gateway colossus army, Templar Colossus army doesn't do qutie as well as Zerg can easily transition into Burrowed roaches->Ultralisks

JonnyLaw

United States3482 Posts

November 25 2010 16:15 GMT

#30

Akatsuki,

My comments were meant to be grating. Bitching about balance occurs all over the forums and is generally stale.

Honestly man, you let him run away with an easy win.

The best advice I can give you, when you scout, fucking look at what you scouted and kill the shit out of him.

If you want to practice ZvP msg me in bnet. I'm on quite often. Jon.1889

*edit

All of the roach talk is piss poor. I love templar PvZ. They suck vs burrowed roaches. Sure they can kill the roaches eventually if the roaches don't run out of storm while they're burrowed after they killed half of your stalkers.

Mass roach is very popular right now. This is not because 4 range roaches are that much better than range 3 roaches. It's because roaches are fucking good and people finally realize this fact. Yes, they're better vs cannons of any type because they cannot be blocked from shooting the buildings.

Note the GSL toss success in games that last longer than eight minutes. + Show Spoiler +

void rays because roaches are that fucking common

JTouche

United States239 Posts

November 25 2010 18:12 GMT

#31

1: Get an Infestor
2: Neural Parasite High Templar
3: Storm High Templar
4: $Profit$

Akatsuki1012

Philippines41 Posts

November 26 2010 11:10 GMT

#32

Argh! I lost to protoss again! I haven't won against them in a looong time! What do you guys do to beat colossi tech? Every time I check the graphs my army value is always higher than his but I lose almost every battle in a landslide.