EPThttp://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/108991-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis
[H] Help with ZvP psionic storm
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Akatsuki1012
Philippines41 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/108991-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis | ||
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Monk___
United States123 Posts
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F.Lamer
Germany5 Posts
Let him waste his forcefields and storms, regenerate your roaches, and then, only then, u should try to kill his army. But the best would be not even to get into this battle. Try to play with a fast army by dropping and using nydus worms. So his slow ht´s can´t even use their storms because they are too far away. | ||
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Akatsuki1012
Philippines41 Posts
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Lavitage
United States71 Posts
If you scout a templar archives early on, make a spit cycle of units then attack him, before he can save up enough storms to hurt you. If it's a late game thing, brood lords are better than ultras. They'll snipe the templars with their ranged attacks and put a bunch of broodlings on the ground to gum up the colossus's targeting. If your opponent's using both he won't have a lot of stalkers to shoot down your flyers. | ||
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Akatsuki1012
Philippines41 Posts
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Thorn62
France7 Posts
simple as that.... | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On November 25 2010 21:27 Thorn62 wrote: get banelings it rapes templars so hard he plays aoe style play aoe style melt his army down simple as that.... That's what I do. Most toss have all HTs on one big pack and you can just roll to them on creep and explode all of them. Of course if toss is really good he will use force fields to prevent that but you can always try. On November 25 2010 21:37 Akatsuki1012 wrote: So there's no way to counter/avoid psi storm or atleast win that battle with my army composition? Well T3 of zerg is really good vs. HTs so you should have more ultras or broodlords. And micro away with hydras out of storm. | ||
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Akatsuki1012
Philippines41 Posts
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
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traca
146 Posts
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
On November 25 2010 20:56 Akatsuki1012 wrote: I couldn't just burrow like that, he had an obs and colossi. I couldn't kite it either because my ultras would be wasted so much the stalkers would just kill them off while I try to "kite" them. If he went Templar AND Collossus tech you should have been able to outmass him earlier. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On November 25 2010 21:37 Akatsuki1012 wrote: So there's no way to counter/avoid psi storm or atleast win that battle with my army composition? If Toss goes blind Templar tech then you should have rolled him easily with Roach + Burrow/Speed upgrades, it is pretty darn easy, it is one of the reasons why Toss tend to go for Colossus even though they are close to Templar tech when they get Blink, a tech switch to Roaches is just too devastating. Didn't watch the replay, I'm 1850~ Toss (Diamond) but just reading your unit comp of Roach/Ultra/Hydra, you must have done something horribly wrong to lose to High Temps because that is a direct counter to it. | ||
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Dubz
United States242 Posts
On November 25 2010 21:02 Lavitage wrote: Careful about listening to burrow hype. Burrowed roaches make the ground look a little different, and if they're moving with tunneling claws it's actually pretty fucking easy to see the little splotches on the ground move. He'll just keep hitting them with storms while they can't fight back, and eventually the roaches die. Moving won't save you, as he'll just storm the little shifty patches of ground. . This is just so incorrect, the hp regeneration rate for burrowed roaches with tunneling claws is > the dps for storm. i've been stormed over and over by ten high templars on my burrowed roaches and since storm doesnt stack they never got below orange | ||
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sas911
Canada113 Posts
I guess more roaches? I play protoss, and I hate the effectiveness of roaches, just because they kill HT play, and forces me to get colossus. But I admit I don't really know what zerg uses to counter a max supply army, interested in what other people say. EDIT: Wait what storms don't stack? Holy shit if that's true, that makes me sad panda, but thanks? Re-edit: Facepalm. Was not aware storms could not stack. Wow that makes my days of spamming storm in the same spot look beyond retarded. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On November 25 2010 22:02 Dubz wrote: This is just so incorrect, the hp regeneration rate for burrowed roaches with tunneling claws is > the dps for storm. i've been stormed over and over by ten high templars on my burrowed roaches and since storm doesnt stack they never got below orange This. If the Toss is storming the burrowed roaches then he is wasting Templar energy, regardless if stalkers/Colossi are attacking them. Quick Burrow split into two groups should be suffice, or other options would be (if you have a large roach army) is to follow the Toss army while burrowed so they cannot storm without hurting themselves. EDIT: Watching the replay. Not going to sugar coat it, you fucked up pretty hard. 8:30mins into the Game and the Toss has 1 Colossus without range, 1 Stalker and 2 Zealots, 1 Gateway not turned into a warpgate and 1 Robotics. If you just attack moved his base you would have won. EDIT 2: 11mins into the game you suicide an overlord to see that he has only 2 gateway, 2 robos, 3 colossus, 3 Stalkers and 2 Zealots yet you do nothing about it, you had such a big army at that stage yet you didn't attack. What is the point of saccing an overlord if you aren't going to react to what he is doing? | ||
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Akatsuki1012
Philippines41 Posts
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Necrophantasia
Japan299 Posts
Especially that final battle. You had at least 15 larvae between yoru 3 hatches, over 1500 minerals and 400 gass and 30 ish supply and yet you made nothing :S. You let the toss get away with a 1 gate, 1 robo straight to colossus tech build, and it took you 10 minutes to get 7 roaches. Had you just pushed with the 7 roaches before the colossus popped the game would have been yours easily. Regarding psi storm dodging, why don't you work harder on planting creep tumors or get your overlords to spew creep where you're going to fight? Your stuff will move MUCH faster and storm will be much less effective. But really, your problem lies in not having enough stuff :S. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On November 25 2010 22:11 Akatsuki1012 wrote: Thanks all, advice appreciated. But can I get some advice from someone who actually watched the replay? Your biggest mistake was throwing small packs of units at his 4 Colossus + non existant gateway army and losing them all. If you just stayed back, waited for another pack of roaches to pop and then engaged the very first attack you would have crushed the Protoss Overall, aside from poor macro (queens on high energy, lots of money), lack of upgrades, lack of drones and lack of creep spread, very poor decision making was the bane of your game, even with all the other problems that plagued you, if you just thought it out much better you could have easily won the game at 10 different points in the game. After that Toss death ball died (the one that took out your third) with you coming out ahead you should have just gone for the kill or taken two more bases. The last fight was so painful to watch. You left with 2 Ultras, one of which was trapped in between your Roaches/Hydras. There was so many things wrong with that game, Psi-Storm was not even close to why you lost that. You just need to improve every other aspect of your game. | ||
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JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
Okay now for the game. You build an overlord at ten and don't even extractor trick. You sac an overlord early for no reason. Send a ling at his ramp. You make two spinecrawlers blind, one of them interferes with mining. At 7 minutes you have 400 gas and no zergling speed. He has two zealots and a stalker which don't even block his ramp. If you had pulled drones from gas at 100, not made spines and produced zerglings you could just go fucking kill him. He cannot have storm at 7 minutes. Yous couted this with your now dead overlord. Why sac it if you don't react to his play? At ten minutes he has 2 collosi, one stalker and two zealots. Go fucking kill him. At twenty minutes your army is 3x the size of his and you have a 30 food advantage. Go fucking kill him. You have nine corrupters at 25 minutes. He has three collosi. Scout him. Make a greater spire. You have the spire, use it. You have 2000 gas. You would have lost that battle even if he did not have storm. 30 chargelots, 11 stalkers and 3 colossi will kill your 18 roaches and 3 ultras. In short, you had opportunities to kill him. You didn't utilize them nor macro well. Watch the replay instead of making a thread whining about balance. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
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Akatsuki1012
Philippines41 Posts
On November 25 2010 21:57 grobo wrote: If he went Templar AND Collossus tech you should have been able to outmass him earlier. But I had to go roach/hydra/ultra AND corruptor tech | ||
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Philip2110
Scotland798 Posts
On November 25 2010 22:31 Akatsuki1012 wrote: But I had to go roach/hydra/ultra AND corruptor tech Read what Ummbeefy said | ||
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Gotmog
Serbia899 Posts
On November 25 2010 22:06 Dommk wrote: This. If the Toss is storming the burrowed roaches then he is wasting Templar energy, regardless if stalkers/Colossi are attacking them. Quick Burrow split into two groups should be suffice, or other options would be (if you have a large roach army) is to follow the Toss army while burrowed so they cannot storm without hurting themselves. EDIT: Watching the replay. Not going to sugar coat it, you fucked up pretty hard. 8:30mins into the Game and the Toss has 1 Colossus without range, 1 Stalker and 2 Zealots, 1 Gateway not turned into a warpgate and 1 Robotics. If you just attack moved his base you would have won. EDIT 2: 11mins into the game you suicide an overlord to see that he has only 2 gateway, 2 robos, 3 colossus, 3 Stalkers and 2 Zealots yet you do nothing about it, you had such a big army at that stage yet you didn't attack. What is the point of saccing an overlord if you aren't going to react to what he is doing? What are you talking about ? storm is 2x higher dps then burrowed hps....Not to mention that your whole burrowed army is getting shelled by the rest of the toss army. | ||
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
I had an ob with me when we first attacked, i flooded his entire army with storm, and kept it going. but the storm killed my ob when I attack clicked over to him, the zeals no longer had a visual target and ran into the storm, and his roaches were regenerating hp at the same pace the storm was taking it from them.. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On November 25 2010 22:48 Gotmog wrote: What are you talking about ? storm is 2x higher dps then burrowed hps....Not to mention that your whole burrowed army is getting shelled by the rest of the toss army. Yes, if the toss has the templar energy to cover a roach army moving underground constantly underground. I don't understand how you can say it isn't effective, it is the way you beat Psi-storm and it works really well. There was even a day[9] Daily show where a Zerg did it to amazing effect, and that was back when roaches had only 3 range... | ||
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Akatsuki1012
Philippines41 Posts
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Akatsuki1012
Philippines41 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On November 26 2010 00:40 Akatsuki1012 wrote: But all this talk about the roach burrow would only apply if a) your army composition would compose only or mostly compose of roaches, if you have some hydras along, you'd leave them to die. and b) your opponent has no observer No it doesn't assume any of that, toss can use observers and Roach burrow tactics still work quite well. If Toss go Templars then their ground army isn't as strong as a pure robo composition, they rely on storms doing a good amount of damage. Burrowed roaches can negate quite abit of that, eventually you move on to Ultralisks and Storm becomes worthless. Yes at the start you have to pump out more roaches, but that is a given, Toss doesn't stay on gateway units forever to deal with Hydras, neither to Zerg go into late late game with Terran with only T2, transitions have to be made depending on what the game is currently like. Even then, if you were switching from Corrupter to roaches to deal with the added Templar tech, you can bring one or two overseers into the battle and snipe observers with left over corruptors. Storm isn't that great vs Zerg, ideally you want a voidray robo army, but generally you end up with a gateway colossus army, Templar Colossus army doesn't do qutie as well as Zerg can easily transition into Burrowed roaches->Ultralisks | ||
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JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
My comments were meant to be grating. Bitching about balance occurs all over the forums and is generally stale. Honestly man, you let him run away with an easy win. The best advice I can give you, when you scout, fucking look at what you scouted and kill the shit out of him. If you want to practice ZvP msg me in bnet. I'm on quite often. Jon.1889 *edit All of the roach talk is piss poor. I love templar PvZ. They suck vs burrowed roaches. Sure they can kill the roaches eventually if the roaches don't run out of storm while they're burrowed after they killed half of your stalkers. Mass roach is very popular right now. This is not because 4 range roaches are that much better than range 3 roaches. It's because roaches are fucking good and people finally realize this fact. Yes, they're better vs cannons of any type because they cannot be blocked from shooting the buildings. Note the GSL toss success in games that last longer than eight minutes. + Show Spoiler + void rays because roaches are that fucking common | ||
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JTouche
United States239 Posts
2: Neural Parasite High Templar 3: Storm High Templar 4: $Profit$ | ||
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Akatsuki1012
Philippines41 Posts
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