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PvT - Hallucinate vs PDD, Terran Raven pushes - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Prev 1 2 3 Next All
ExO_
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States2316 Posts
November 21 2010 22:24 GMT
#21
This is amazing. assuming this isn't something blizzard patches in the future, this will be very useful in PvT
gnutz
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany666 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-21 22:29:25
November 21 2010 22:28 GMT
#22
On November 22 2010 07:22 sleepingdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2010 07:18 gnutz wrote:
wow, i actually think it could change the matchup.


Highly doubtful since this has been known for...well, I think the first time I read about this here was two months ago

To cut the long story short: not worth it - it's not about hallucination, it's about sentries and their energy. You need to first tech hallucination, second build many sentries early enough to build up energy and third use the sentry-energy only for hallucinating stuff and not for forcefields/guardian shield.


It seems like not many people knew this. But you need to test whats more worth it: researching hallucinations and +1 gateway for sentries or a starport for phoenixes to deal with these raven pushes.
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-21 22:33:51
November 21 2010 22:29 GMT
#23
I really don't think this is useful, if you spent that much gas on sentries and hallucination, his army is probably going to roll yours. Especially since this will take away energy for guardian shields and ff's. I have had some success with hallucinating colossus, especially when I have a few real ones out. They soak up lots of damage and because Terrans usually try to focus fire them, they tend to sacrifice too much trying to snipe them.
:)
Parra
Profile Joined September 2010
United States152 Posts
November 21 2010 22:34 GMT
#24
Hallucinate is just one of those underused abilities that everyone forgets to get. It's totally worth researching, even if you only use them for scouts or faking out collosi behind your army. If you can edit your post and confirm that it works even when the raven is nearby to spot Hallucinated units.
ExO_
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States2316 Posts
November 21 2010 22:34 GMT
#25
On November 22 2010 07:28 gnutz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2010 07:22 sleepingdog wrote:
On November 22 2010 07:18 gnutz wrote:
wow, i actually think it could change the matchup.


Highly doubtful since this has been known for...well, I think the first time I read about this here was two months ago

To cut the long story short: not worth it - it's not about hallucination, it's about sentries and their energy. You need to first tech hallucination, second build many sentries early enough to build up energy and third use the sentry-energy only for hallucinating stuff and not for forcefields/guardian shield.


It seems like not many people knew this. But you need to test whats more worth it: researching hallucinations and +1 gateway for sentries or a starport for phoenixes to deal with these raven pushes.


it's not entirely comparable. Hallucination costs 100/100 and synergies with a unit that (most of the time) you'll already be building. If you want to include the cost of another gateway, thats 250/100. A stargate is 150/100 then 150/100 per phoenix. If you are facing banshee heavy play, then perhaps it'll be more valuable to invest into phoenix, but if you are holding off an MMM/Raven push with maybe 1-2 banshees then its by far more cost efficient to use hallucinated phoenixes.
HocusPocus
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany214 Posts
November 21 2010 22:57 GMT
#26
I can confirm that hallucinated units drain the energy of the PDD even when raven is nearby, just tried it with a buddy of mine.
AnBi - www.twitch.tv/anbi2199
Darkstar_X
Profile Joined May 2010
United States197 Posts
November 21 2010 23:04 GMT
#27
This is absolutely worthless. In a battle, the PDD will still shoot other "real" projectiles as well. PDD runs out of energy in about 2 volleys, so the hallucination might absorb one or 2 hits. In other words, the energy spend on hallucination is worth about 1 or 2 attacks, or 15 damage. Totally worthless.
EntertainMe
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
864 Posts
November 21 2010 23:17 GMT
#28
This has been used already since GSL season 1. Also shown quite a few times.

1. Hallucinated Phoenix are the best of absorb PDD. (Shown in one of the qualifier game)
2. Hallucinated Phoenix are good meatshield vs vikings. (Same game, just later stage, protoss goes typical collosi ball while t gets MM, Viking, Raven. Toss used 4-5 hallucinated phoenix to abuse/soak up the slow attacks of Vikings, instead of collosi being hit, and also to nullify PDD used by terran).

Its ok strategy. But at this stage, toss already won long before. Its just a fancy move not that cost effective.
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-21 23:18:46
November 21 2010 23:18 GMT
#29
well too bad you can't hallucinate carriers^^
sikyon
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1045 Posts
November 21 2010 23:19 GMT
#30
Personally when I scout a bunch of marines after I do 1 gate FE I just throw up a stargate and chrono out a couple of pheonix. Move out with 2 of them and harass his raven in his own base.
Stationary
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden22 Posts
November 21 2010 23:40 GMT
#31
On November 22 2010 07:14 T0fuuu wrote:
Isnt the raven a DETECTOR though? So wont terran units know they are hallucinations and wont shoot them?


Yes but that's not the point. The PDD ai still burns energy on the fake-phoenixes shots even if he has a raven there to detect that they're hallucinations. That is the point.
red_hq
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-21 23:50:48
November 21 2010 23:46 GMT
#32
doing vacuum tests now on AI with detection will post results.

It works 100% hallued phoenix attacking the raven that created the PDD drains the PDD energy, obviously within the PDD range. So even if they know its hallus the PDD drains its energy on the hallus.

Great find.
Get some 'good' Dota 2: twitch.tv/redhq
IAttackYou
Profile Joined August 2010
United States330 Posts
November 21 2010 23:47 GMT
#33
wow I have to say that this really is good find. Not only can you get stuff to tank for you, you can also waste the pdd energy. 100/100 might not be too bad for this.
I'm not a nub, I'm gosu of tomorrow
Fharoc
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada32 Posts
November 22 2010 00:17 GMT
#34
What about HTs using FB on PDD?
Stijn
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands363 Posts
November 22 2010 00:30 GMT
#35
You usually don't have many HT's to do that by the time the push comes, and if you do, you'll want to use them for storm since you'll be low on other units that can do damage.
http://www.fuzic.nl - Up-to-date viewer numbers for Starcraft 2 live streams
GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
November 22 2010 00:44 GMT
#36
I've tried it but it doesn't really work too well, since your overall army is smaller for having the sentries in it. I find you're better off either running away or using units that can't be blocked by PDD (sentry, zealot, immortal) and using guardian/FF.

"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
FuzzyLord
Profile Joined September 2010
253 Posts
November 22 2010 02:00 GMT
#37
By the time your enemy has 3 ravens, you should already have a decent amount of stalkers to make the PDD almost useless. I would say using sentries for GS and FF is a lot better.
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
November 22 2010 02:11 GMT
#38
fyi, if you choose to hallucinate the stalker it makes 2 stalkers for one hallucinate, this is probably better than using phoenix that they know are fake
Stationary
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden22 Posts
November 22 2010 02:39 GMT
#39
On November 22 2010 11:00 FuzzyLord wrote:
By the time your enemy has 3 ravens, you should already have a decent amount of stalkers to make the PDD almost useless. I would say using sentries for GS and FF is a lot better.

Yeah but 3 ravens was more of a demonstration. Personally I think 100/100 is worth nullfying 1 or 2 PDD's

On November 22 2010 11:11 Jayrod wrote:
fyi, if you choose to hallucinate the stalker it makes 2 stalkers for one hallucinate, this is probably better than using phoenix that they know are fake


Personally I don't agree, the phoenix have 2 projectiles(?) or at least fires a lot faster, and don't block my concave like some hallucinated stalkers would, but thats just my opinion.
EyMiller245
Profile Joined April 2010
United States45 Posts
November 22 2010 03:16 GMT
#40
only useful when you cant run away. the 400 energy spent on hallus would be better spent on FF And running.
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