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Hi. I'm 2100+ Zerg diamond player, and I wouldn't have any problem dealing with any sorts of the Protoss opening build that you mention above, but there is 1 build that I find it very difficult to deal with.
It is the protoss wall up to fast stargate and phoenix build, then into FE.
I think that this is the strongest build that the Protoss have against Zerg. And I have lose many games to this type of build
Those few pesky Phoenix will harrass and kill your ovies, queens, or maybe drones thereby significantly slowing u down, and shuttting down your scouting ability, thus creating a very big advantage for him going into the mid game.
Normally if you see this build coming, what would you do? Do you go into mass hydra, probably running into opponents trap, as he will be willingly go mass collusus to deal with your hydra
Or do you go muta? Thereby forcing opponent to build more phoenix and stalker.
Or do u go spore? Defending and macro up?
Or maybe make a few extra queens to kill those stray Phoenix that run into you base?
So, can any of the pros here tell me what to do if opponent go fast Phoenix.
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depends on the amount of phoenix, a couple of early phoenix and you should be fine with extra queens or spore, and continue macro.
when you see 5/6 phoenix, a baneling bust + tons of speedzergling is a great solution, because he will only have a few grounds units in his base and phoenix won't be able to pick them all up.
or fast tech to hydra and push but don't wait too long
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On November 17 2010 15:40 NoobAPM wrote:
Hi. I'm 2100+ Zerg diamond player, and I wouldn't have any problem dealing with any sorts of the Protoss opening build that you mention above, but there is 1 build that I find it very difficult to deal with.
It is the protoss wall up to fast stargate and phoenix build, then into FE.
I think that this is the strongest build that the Protoss have against Zerg. And I have lose many games to this type of build
Those few pesky Phoenix will harrass and kill your ovies, queens, or maybe drones thereby significantly slowing u down, and shuttting down your scouting ability, thus creating a very big advantage for him going into the mid game.
Normally if you see this build coming, what would you do? Do you go into mass hydra, probably running into opponents trap, as he will be willingly go mass collusus to deal with your hydra
Or do you go muta? Thereby forcing opponent to build more phoenix and stalker.
Or do u go spore? Defending and macro up?
Or maybe make a few extra queens to kill those stray Phoenix that run into you base?
So, can any of the pros here tell me what to do if opponent go fast Phoenix.
Scout Stargate.
Make continuous queens from your Hatcheries until you push.
Get a Roach Warren and a Spore in each mineral line if you can't handle the Phoenixes. Save up the larvae and ressources for a healthy roach force.
Go fucking kill him.
Everytime people lose to phoenixes is because they panick over the Phoenixes killing their ovies and queens. Just exploit his lack of ground DPS.
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after 15 nexxus, u can also do a baneling bust, at least if they don't have a very narrow choke. you just have to be careful not to stop droning too early.
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forge first means FFE more often than it means ramp block. you should still patrol the ramp, but if you go pool first you're going to have to go allin to win; as your opponent will out drone you with chronoboost and 6 gate up your ass.
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On November 17 2010 15:40 NoobAPM wrote:
Hi. I'm 2100+ Zerg diamond player, and I wouldn't have any problem dealing with any sorts of the Protoss opening build that you mention above, but there is 1 build that I find it very difficult to deal with.
It is the protoss wall up to fast stargate and phoenix build, then into FE.
I think that this is the strongest build that the Protoss have against Zerg. And I have lose many games to this type of build
Those few pesky Phoenix will harrass and kill your ovies, queens, or maybe drones thereby significantly slowing u down, and shuttting down your scouting ability, thus creating a very big advantage for him going into the mid game.
Normally if you see this build coming, what would you do? Do you go into mass hydra, probably running into opponents trap, as he will be willingly go mass collusus to deal with your hydra
Or do you go muta? Thereby forcing opponent to build more phoenix and stalker.
Or do u go spore? Defending and macro up?
Or maybe make a few extra queens to kill those stray Phoenix that run into you base?
So, can any of the pros here tell me what to do if opponent go fast Phoenix.
I'm rated a bit below you, and I don't face phoenixes that much, but I was watching an Artosis rep where he went hydra for a bit vs the phoenix opening. His opponent went for colossus naturally, but artosis had started 2 hidden spires (under a fuckton of OLs to hide them). He got mass muta + some corruptor. his opponent had halted phoenix production, and he won pretty easily with double upgraded air.
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On November 18 2010 05:23 friscosav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 15:40 NoobAPM wrote:
Hi. I'm 2100+ Zerg diamond player, and I wouldn't have any problem dealing with any sorts of the Protoss opening build that you mention above, but there is 1 build that I find it very difficult to deal with.
It is the protoss wall up to fast stargate and phoenix build, then into FE.
I think that this is the strongest build that the Protoss have against Zerg. And I have lose many games to this type of build
Those few pesky Phoenix will harrass and kill your ovies, queens, or maybe drones thereby significantly slowing u down, and shuttting down your scouting ability, thus creating a very big advantage for him going into the mid game.
Normally if you see this build coming, what would you do? Do you go into mass hydra, probably running into opponents trap, as he will be willingly go mass collusus to deal with your hydra
Or do you go muta? Thereby forcing opponent to build more phoenix and stalker.
Or do u go spore? Defending and macro up?
Or maybe make a few extra queens to kill those stray Phoenix that run into you base?
So, can any of the pros here tell me what to do if opponent go fast Phoenix.
I'm rated a bit below you, and I don't face phoenixes that much, but I was watching an Artosis rep where he went hydra for a bit vs the phoenix opening. His opponent went for colossus naturally, but artosis had started 2 hidden spires (under a fuckton of OLs to hide them). He got mass muta + some corruptor. his opponent had halted phoenix production, and he won pretty easily with double upgraded air.
Saw another game of Artosis where he also did the same thing, and toss transitioned into massing ground units. Artosis' muta/corrupters took out all the pheonixes but lost all of them to stalkers, and got stomped.
I'd make some hydras and a few spores to defend and secretly mass roaches. After seeing hydras, toss ususally makes colossus or HT.
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I would add that you need to be aggressive with scouting after a 15 nexus. There are two common P followups that will fuck you up if you don't scout them.
2 stargate phoenix: you need to know its coming so you don't blindly make mutas into it. if you don't have an extra queen or two (or hydras) when the 4-5 phoenixes show up you can lose tons of overlords/drones. best response (in my opinion I don't play zerg) is get an evo for spores in the mineral line and extra queens. he will probably transition to collossus after so be wary of that and don't make too many hydras
6 gate timing: once his nat is up and he has warpgate researching he will add on a ton of gateways. if you drone pump too hard or try to take a third with too few units this can kill you. just be careful that you don't let this go unscouted and get caught offguard by a huge ball of units relatively early
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This is a win thread. Thanks for posting it.
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Extremely Helpful! I'm a rising zerg player (rocketed through silver and hit 1st in gold immediately after changing div's so probably gonna hit plat any second) and I was really struggling with a lot of timing pushes and their responses. I love aggressively scouting though.
At the lower levels i RARELY see a 15nex, much more commonly seeing 2-3-4gate/robo/stargate timing pushes, sometimes cannoned in (but in a cannon-1base i'm 90% sure it's just straight voidray tech.).
As a less practiced player i'm afraid to expand before pool, often because i will see 5 zealots or 2z's1stalker pushes right as my pool is finishing. Can anyone give me an idea of the timing is when you FE as Z? (in terms of what the absolute max P can have if Z early expands? Im often woefully unprepared for 1-2-3gate-core timing attacks, which are by far the most common at my level).
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If you wish to expand further you can talk about the late early game builds or the typical protoss openings from the fast expand and what to look for to scout them.
- Dark Templar
- 2 Starport Phoenix
- 6 WG (Cut probe) Push
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EPT
