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The proper way to counter this imo is to make the LEAST amount of stalkers. Stalkers are very bad against the PDD and don't kill banshee's fast while being chewed on by the marines and marauders.
THe best way to counter it imo is to make a stargate STRAIGHT away whenever you see a tech lab starport. Then go with phoenix, immortals, LOTS of zealots and a few sentry. Let the lots with immortal and sentry attack with guardian shield up and place a few forcefields. Then attack the banshee's with your phoenix (you should have 1 and 1 more coming up during the fight).
The trick is to kill the marines with zealots and just have 1 phoenix surviving that will mop up the banshee's. Stalkers are crap against this combination as their damage just gets soaked by PDD while the banshee's focus them, phoenix deplete PDD MUCH faster and then kill the banshee's insanely quick while it's relatively easy to stay out of range of most marines (which don't have shield so aren't too hard to kill). Immortal's aren't too great but they last fairly well and don't activate PDD getting at least some damage in and tremendously help if he mixes in some marauders or tanks (difficult to know what exact variation is coming).
So usually I open 1 gate FE into 2 gate robo (unless i'm quite certain a MM(g) push is coming in which case i get 3 gate first) and then scout with a observer asap. If i see the starport techlab i pull back the observer immediately and put it in between my bases (in case of banshee cloak harass) and make the minimal amount of stalkers to stop harass (2 or 3 is fine vs 1 starport) while getting a starport. Make non-stop immortal + zealot in the meantime, cutting probe's if neccesary. Then from the stargate make chronoboosted phoenix ASAP, if you scouted the starport in time you should always be able to get 1 out in time. Then when he comes (use your phoenix to scout not your observer) engage him in the most open area possible with your probes + army. Getting a good concave so the zealots dont clog up is very important. On maps with a small entrance point to your natural (such as steppes, LT etc.) buy some extra time by forcefielding the entrance to your base so you can get more phoenix out.
General important things:
- make sure to use your probe's, he is also using his afterall.
- keep making units during the battle it's very common for this attack to break almost exactly even, especially getting a phoenix during the fight is critical.
- don't overly focus on the banshees! Yes they deal high DPS but the marines actually deal more! If you deal with the rines and have 1 phoenix (nearly) complete you can easily mop up the banshee's.
- killing the PDD with sentries is sweet, the lower number of stalkers you have the easier this actually is to do while the PDD is actually still doing something. Killing a PDD with sentries after it ate 2 volleys of your 8 stalkers doesn't do shit. Don't make too many sentries just for this purpose though, besides guardian shield and a few forcefields their use is quite limited for such a fight as they die really quick to the banshee's. I'd suggest just 2 or 3.
- ZEALOTS! You need as many as possible from these to stop this. It seems counterintuitive but the way to win is to win the ground fight first. A phoenix can mop up any air of him really quickly (raven and banshee both light) as long as you kill or force the marines to retreat. Remember that they can't kite well with this push as they lack a medivacs and need to stay near their banshee's and PDD. If they bring a substantial amount of scv's it's critical to not let the zealots bug out vs those (somehow scv's on autorepair are screwed with attack priority).
- If you FE'd you need to ignore colossi as a answer to this push. The robotics support costs too much and it takes quite long for that first colossi to finish. More importantly a good T will simply focus it with the banshee's before it does any significant damage (there is no way it will have range upgraded).
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On November 11 2010 08:54 Markwerf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
The proper way to counter this imo is to make the LEAST amount of stalkers. Stalkers are very bad against the PDD and don't kill banshee's fast while being chewed on by the marines and marauders.
THe best way to counter it imo is to make a stargate STRAIGHT away whenever you see a tech lab starport. Then go with phoenix, immortals, LOTS of zealots and a few sentry. Let the lots with immortal and sentry attack with guardian shield up and place a few forcefields. Then attack the banshee's with your phoenix (you should have 1 and 1 more coming up during the fight).
The trick is to kill the marines with zealots and just have 1 phoenix surviving that will mop up the banshee's. Stalkers are crap against this combination as their damage just gets soaked by PDD while the banshee's focus them, phoenix deplete PDD MUCH faster and then kill the banshee's insanely quick while it's relatively easy to stay out of range of most marines (which don't have shield so aren't too hard to kill). Immortal's aren't too great but they last fairly well and don't activate PDD getting at least some damage in and tremendously help if he mixes in some marauders or tanks (difficult to know what exact variation is coming).
So usually I open 1 gate FE into 2 gate robo (unless i'm quite certain a MM(g) push is coming in which case i get 3 gate first) and then scout with a observer asap. If i see the starport techlab i pull back the observer immediately and put it in between my bases (in case of banshee cloak harass) and make the minimal amount of stalkers to stop harass (2 or 3 is fine vs 1 starport) while getting a starport. Make non-stop immortal + zealot in the meantime, cutting probe's if neccesary. Then from the stargate make chronoboosted phoenix ASAP, if you scouted the starport in time you should always be able to get 1 out in time. Then when he comes (use your phoenix to scout not your observer) engage him in the most open area possible with your probes + army. Getting a good concave so the zealots dont clog up is very important. On maps with a small entrance point to your natural (such as steppes, LT etc.) buy some extra time by forcefielding the entrance to your base so you can get more phoenix out.
General important things:
- make sure to use your probe's, he is also using his afterall.
- keep making units during the battle it's very common for this attack to break almost exactly even, especially getting a phoenix during the fight is critical.
- don't overly focus on the banshees! Yes they deal high DPS but the marines actually deal more! If you deal with the rines and have 1 phoenix (nearly) complete you can easily mop up the banshee's.
- killing the PDD with sentries is sweet, the lower number of stalkers you have the easier this actually is to do while the PDD is actually still doing something. Killing a PDD with sentries after it ate 2 volleys of your 8 stalkers doesn't do shit. Don't make too many sentries just for this purpose though, besides guardian shield and a few forcefields their use is quite limited for such a fight as they die really quick to the banshee's. I'd suggest just 2 or 3.
- ZEALOTS! You need as many as possible from these to stop this. It seems counterintuitive but the way to win is to win the ground fight first. A phoenix can mop up any air of him really quickly (raven and banshee both light) as long as you kill or force the marines to retreat. Remember that they can't kite well with this push as they lack a medivacs and need to stay near their banshee's and PDD. If they bring a substantial amount of scv's it's critical to not let the zealots bug out vs those (somehow scv's on autorepair are screwed with attack priority).
- If you FE'd you need to ignore colossi as a answer to this push. The robotics support costs too much and it takes quite long for that first colossi to finish. More importantly a good T will simply focus it with the banshee's before it does any significant damage (there is no way it will have range upgraded).
Thanks. This actually sounds like a reasonable response... however, don't you think that throwing down a Stargate after you scout only a Starport with a tech lab (no Raven, no Banshees yet) is a bit of an overreaction? Would you be in for some serious hurt if he didn't end up getting more than 1 Banshee/1 Raven and was just aggressive with straight-up MMM?
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On November 11 2010 08:54 Markwerf wrote:
The proper way to counter this imo is to make the LEAST amount of stalkers. Stalkers are very bad against the PDD and don't kill banshee's fast while being chewed on by the marines and marauders.
THe best way to counter it imo is to make a stargate STRAIGHT away whenever you see a tech lab starport. Then go with phoenix, immortals, LOTS of zealots and a few sentry. Let the lots with immortal and sentry attack with guardian shield up and place a few forcefields. Then attack the banshee's with your phoenix (you should have 1 and 1 more coming up during the fight).
The trick is to kill the marines with zealots and just have 1 phoenix surviving that will mop up the banshee's. Stalkers are crap against this combination as their damage just gets soaked by PDD while the banshee's focus them, phoenix deplete PDD MUCH faster and then kill the banshee's insanely quick while it's relatively easy to stay out of range of most marines (which don't have shield so aren't too hard to kill). Immortal's aren't too great but they last fairly well and don't activate PDD getting at least some damage in and tremendously help if he mixes in some marauders or tanks (difficult to know what exact variation is coming).
So usually I open 1 gate FE into 2 gate robo (unless i'm quite certain a MM(g) push is coming in which case i get 3 gate first) and then scout with a observer asap. If i see the starport techlab i pull back the observer immediately and put it in between my bases (in case of banshee cloak harass) and make the minimal amount of stalkers to stop harass (2 or 3 is fine vs 1 starport) while getting a starport. Make non-stop immortal + zealot in the meantime, cutting probe's if neccesary. Then from the stargate make chronoboosted phoenix ASAP, if you scouted the starport in time you should always be able to get 1 out in time. Then when he comes (use your phoenix to scout not your observer) engage him in the most open area possible with your probes + army. Getting a good concave so the zealots dont clog up is very important. On maps with a small entrance point to your natural (such as steppes, LT etc.) buy some extra time by forcefielding the entrance to your base so you can get more phoenix out.
General important things:
- make sure to use your probe's, he is also using his afterall.
- keep making units during the battle it's very common for this attack to break almost exactly even, especially getting a phoenix during the fight is critical.
- don't overly focus on the banshees! Yes they deal high DPS but the marines actually deal more! If you deal with the rines and have 1 phoenix (nearly) complete you can easily mop up the banshee's.
- killing the PDD with sentries is sweet, the lower number of stalkers you have the easier this actually is to do while the PDD is actually still doing something. Killing a PDD with sentries after it ate 2 volleys of your 8 stalkers doesn't do shit. Don't make too many sentries just for this purpose though, besides guardian shield and a few forcefields their use is quite limited for such a fight as they die really quick to the banshee's. I'd suggest just 2 or 3.
- ZEALOTS! You need as many as possible from these to stop this. It seems counterintuitive but the way to win is to win the ground fight first. A phoenix can mop up any air of him really quickly (raven and banshee both light) as long as you kill or force the marines to retreat. Remember that they can't kite well with this push as they lack a medivacs and need to stay near their banshee's and PDD. If they bring a substantial amount of scv's it's critical to not let the zealots bug out vs those (somehow scv's on autorepair are screwed with attack priority).
- If you FE'd you need to ignore colossi as a answer to this push. The robotics support costs too much and it takes quite long for that first colossi to finish. More importantly a good T will simply focus it with the banshee's before it does any significant damage (there is no way it will have range upgraded).
Yes, this is the textbook counter to marine/banshee. It's really not that tough.
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With terran saying omg late game autoloss, and toss going like omg early to hard. The mind set is in favor of the terran there. Anyway thanks to the mules he has a little mineral advantage, so the toss has to really whatch were he invests his ressources in.
The terran is able to force a fight with concussivs, so thanks to the pdds he will have some free kills. I can think of a few things that might work. But i am bad playing against people as bad as me so, i couldn't tell you if it would work.
for me pvt always worked by going phenix immortal. Sniping marines and marauders whenever i had the option to do so with my phenix, harassing worker line to force some turrets, making him spend enough stuff so i could expand or if he overcomitted on turrets, just pushing him. Phenix allow the toss to force a fight, so they are pretty nice. guardian shield on -> a click -> lift stuff, your stalkers+sentrys will stay behind pretty save and snipe the lifted stuff -> let immortals focus the marauders on ground -> more lifiting. Its mostly a trade of zealots vs marauders. But once those are traded, its marines vs immortals and stalkers protected by an guardian shield. If he tryes to retreat the phenix will get alot of free marines. And the immortal shields will regenerate as well. I only faced banshee harass or ravens though, can't remember if i had both at the same time before, but its hard to protect something in the air from phenix runbys.
So just try out what works for you. Maybe a templar would work without getting storm just for feedback. its kind of the same cost as the raven and if you can get the raven you can also damage a banshee a little bit.
Imo toss players are way to bound to their warp gates, but well they can be really evil some times. But they alwas try to figure out warpgate heavy tactics.
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On November 11 2010 09:06 Shlowpoke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 08:54 Markwerf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
The proper way to counter this imo is to make the LEAST amount of stalkers. Stalkers are very bad against the PDD and don't kill banshee's fast while being chewed on by the marines and marauders.
THe best way to counter it imo is to make a stargate STRAIGHT away whenever you see a tech lab starport. Then go with phoenix, immortals, LOTS of zealots and a few sentry. Let the lots with immortal and sentry attack with guardian shield up and place a few forcefields. Then attack the banshee's with your phoenix (you should have 1 and 1 more coming up during the fight).
The trick is to kill the marines with zealots and just have 1 phoenix surviving that will mop up the banshee's. Stalkers are crap against this combination as their damage just gets soaked by PDD while the banshee's focus them, phoenix deplete PDD MUCH faster and then kill the banshee's insanely quick while it's relatively easy to stay out of range of most marines (which don't have shield so aren't too hard to kill). Immortal's aren't too great but they last fairly well and don't activate PDD getting at least some damage in and tremendously help if he mixes in some marauders or tanks (difficult to know what exact variation is coming).
So usually I open 1 gate FE into 2 gate robo (unless i'm quite certain a MM(g) push is coming in which case i get 3 gate first) and then scout with a observer asap. If i see the starport techlab i pull back the observer immediately and put it in between my bases (in case of banshee cloak harass) and make the minimal amount of stalkers to stop harass (2 or 3 is fine vs 1 starport) while getting a starport. Make non-stop immortal + zealot in the meantime, cutting probe's if neccesary. Then from the stargate make chronoboosted phoenix ASAP, if you scouted the starport in time you should always be able to get 1 out in time. Then when he comes (use your phoenix to scout not your observer) engage him in the most open area possible with your probes + army. Getting a good concave so the zealots dont clog up is very important. On maps with a small entrance point to your natural (such as steppes, LT etc.) buy some extra time by forcefielding the entrance to your base so you can get more phoenix out.
General important things:
- make sure to use your probe's, he is also using his afterall.
- keep making units during the battle it's very common for this attack to break almost exactly even, especially getting a phoenix during the fight is critical.
- don't overly focus on the banshees! Yes they deal high DPS but the marines actually deal more! If you deal with the rines and have 1 phoenix (nearly) complete you can easily mop up the banshee's.
- killing the PDD with sentries is sweet, the lower number of stalkers you have the easier this actually is to do while the PDD is actually still doing something. Killing a PDD with sentries after it ate 2 volleys of your 8 stalkers doesn't do shit. Don't make too many sentries just for this purpose though, besides guardian shield and a few forcefields their use is quite limited for such a fight as they die really quick to the banshee's. I'd suggest just 2 or 3.
- ZEALOTS! You need as many as possible from these to stop this. It seems counterintuitive but the way to win is to win the ground fight first. A phoenix can mop up any air of him really quickly (raven and banshee both light) as long as you kill or force the marines to retreat. Remember that they can't kite well with this push as they lack a medivacs and need to stay near their banshee's and PDD. If they bring a substantial amount of scv's it's critical to not let the zealots bug out vs those (somehow scv's on autorepair are screwed with attack priority).
- If you FE'd you need to ignore colossi as a answer to this push. The robotics support costs too much and it takes quite long for that first colossi to finish. More importantly a good T will simply focus it with the banshee's before it does any significant damage (there is no way it will have range upgraded).
Thanks. This actually sounds like a reasonable response... however, don't you think that throwing down a Stargate after you scout only a Starport with a tech lab (no Raven, no Banshees yet) is a bit of an overreaction? Would you be in for some serious hurt if he didn't end up getting more than 1 Banshee/1 Raven and was just aggressive with straight-up MMM?
Uhm no a stargate imo always pays itself off if the terran even makes only 1! banshee or raven. That phoenix can function as a scout while your original observer stays at home (wary of cloaked banshee's) and is infinitely more handy to stop harass then stalkers are. Stopping banshee harass with only stalkers is very difficult against a good T as they will just get probe/pylon kills all over the place (especially as i'm i think scouting pylons are a near must as P to be able to respond to drops in time). Remember that a phoenix can always serve to kill medivacs / vikings as well or even lift tanks. It is impossible for a T to screw you into making phoenix and then abuse that in some other way, phoenix are usefull vs every starport combination. Sure they aren't great against pure MMM but if T is making that with a tech lab starport he is doing something less efficient as well. Remember that these pushes generally come when T is a bit behind so all you have to do to gain an advantage is simply NOT die, if they switch to something else you should be way ahead in economy.
Also on a sidenote i would NOT advise using cannons against this push. Cannons suck vs PDD (cancel 20 dmg a shot) and the first cannon is very expensive as you don't use a forge against this type of play really. Also cannons make it much easier for them to lay a perfect PDD as they know where you want to fight then. I know cannons have been used in GSL to stop this play once but that player also used phoenix, 3 zealots will help more then 1 forge and 1 cannon really.
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Just snipe the PDD! Why do people not realize you can kill PDDs! Not killing the PDD or running away from it is like staying at the spot where a nuke is going down. Just get stalker sentry and add immortals and zealots if he adds marauders. Use the ffs to separate his ground army from his air army. Most importantly, kill PDDs or at least run away. Get phoenixes as his banshee count increases.
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i really want to see how you kill a pdd
the only thing that work are feedback void ray or sentry
i mean it blocks 20 shots how you want to kill it
and besides even if you make less stalker and more anti air units ect ect
intead of 1 pdd you throw 3-4 auto turrets maybe not effective like pdd
it still helps
about the timing attack
i agree with the other toss that stargate is nessesary
because what nobody mention
he scout with factory and he still keeps it
to scout more then the toss to with the observer
and i think seriously void rays mass zealots and guardian shield sentry rape this built
the other thing is the rush has only succed when the toss is expanding
like the other guy said
its a built to punish the p for being greedy
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On November 11 2010 09:06 Shlowpoke wrote:Thanks. This actually sounds like a reasonable response... however, don't you think that throwing down a Stargate after you scout only a Starport with a tech lab (no Raven, no Banshees yet) is a bit of an overreaction? Would you be in for some serious hurt if he didn't end up getting more than 1 Banshee/1 Raven and was just aggressive with straight-up MMM?
It depends on the timing of the starport. An early starport means he went 111, and you only go 111 if you're going banshee or medivac drop. 2gas is almost always banshee, occasionally thor. Basically if you build a 111 timing starport you're screwed if you do anything short of banshee or surprise drop. You'll have way too few units and will never catch up without doing damage. 1 barracks does not build a lot, and more importantly they must choose between tech and reactor. If they choose reactor they can't start upgrades until super late, if they choose tech lab they either build marauders or even worse one - marine - at - a - time.
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This build is still insanely popular on ladder. There are all kinds of variants of marine/banshee/raven bopping around. I have the most success against it opening kiwikaki style with the insanely fast immortals, and then fast expanding. As long as I have 4 gates and one colossus finished, I hold it off without much trouble.
Its a well balanced push, so you need a well balanced composition. 5 or 6 zealots, 3 or 4 sentries, and 4 or 5 stalkers, 2 immortals, and that single colossus works very well.
The reason why its safe to FE against this is that the push comes at around the 10 minute mark at the earliest. Your expo is already up and has paid for itself at that point if you do take your nat in a timely manner.
Another important thing to note is scouting at the front. If your probe peeks at their ramp and sees only marines banshees are probably on their way to your base. Furthermore, its safe to keep units in your mineral line as long as you are scouting the front of the enemy base. When you see them push out, just box your army and drag them all out to the front. Its much easier to scout their front then it is to scout the entire map for drops and banshees.
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On November 11 2010 08:37 oprandom wrote:
Depending on the map, void rays will work. People don't realize the patch made them much better at hit and run harass but not as effective in rushes. The pros are using void rays way more in tournaments like GSL for this very reason - fly over a cliff hit and run, even mass stimmed marines won't kill them and their shields will heal. The proper counter to microed void rays is actually vikings despite their armor. Marines only work if the protoss player doesn't know how to micro and escape over cliffs.
Void rays work much more like mutalisks post patch. You hit and run and force your opponent to hard counter, and if they can't get critical mass you camp at their barracks and command and snipe anything that comes out. There was one GSL game where 2 void rays microed the marines to death (ignoring tanks and marauders) and then camped over 4 barracks and it was gg.
The other counter is simply to have low econ 1 base aggression against terran to break his tech build, or steal his gas. If you "let" Terran get 2 banshees out without ever making a single attack, that's your call.
I would hazard to say they only work because most builds incorporate some marauders in them but if its just marines I dont see it happening
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some horrible advice here. Colossi don't work well vs this. First of all they are very risky as the push might come when you just have that first colossi at 60% which will immediately get you screwed.
Also a good T will simply focus your colossus with his banshee's/vikings before it does any significant damage as there is no way that colossus will have range tech already.
Also blink is a horrible advice as well. Against takes too long to be effective against this. And the whole "forcing them a PDD on the way over" is never gonna work against a proper timing push. Blink hardly helps in battle against banshee / MM. Blink isn't a fantastic tech against terran, it's only good for stopping harass / chasing units a bit vs T imo (which is enough to get it eventually but not fast)
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On November 11 2010 12:16 Markwerf wrote:
some horrible advice here. Colossi don't work well vs this. First of all they are very risky as the push might come when you just have that first colossi at 60% which will immediately get you screwed.
Also a good T will simply focus your colossus with his banshee's/vikings before it does any significant damage as there is no way that colossus will have range tech already.
Also blink is a horrible advice as well. Against takes too long to be effective against this. And the whole "forcing them a PDD on the way over" is never gonna work against a proper timing push. Blink hardly helps in battle against banshee / MM. Blink isn't a fantastic tech against terran, it's only good for stopping harass / chasing units a bit vs T imo (which is enough to get it eventually but not fast)
Watch the rep. thx.
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On November 11 2010 08:37 Shlowpoke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 08:27 GoldenH wrote:
I've had success against this build by going 2 robo 1 gate, pumping stalkers + 1 sentry out of the gate, and immortals. The idea is to keep your stalkers behind the immortals, their only purpose is to shoot at the banshee. You will not really try and do any damage with the stalker during the fight with the marine marauder, since there will be a PDD out anyway. Just keep them back, and keep them shooting (to wear down the PDD)
You can actually FE with this strat. I don't buy this, especially not after an FE. With only stalker/sentry/immortal the immortals are going to get focused down by the marines extremely quickly while the stalkers are occupied with PDD. If you can prove it by posting a replay, then by all means...
You might think the immortals will get focused down by marines rather fast but - they have 200 health with +1 armor and guardian shield? oh yeahhhh. I really hope he does focus them down, because if he just has 4 marauders on one hotkey and all his marines on the other and just uses the marines to kill the shields then i am in a bit more trouble.
Because immortals are considerably less bulky than stalkers and you haven't got many zealots its actually possible to keep the sentries back and still protect them rather well.
Around the time the push comes you'll only have 4-6 stalkers, yeah, you can have a few zealots in there too. But the PDD isn't going to affect your dps much because you'll have like 8-10 immortals, oh, thats like 20 stalkers and PDD is worthless. nice.
Unfortunately I only seem to have a rep of myself getting a collosus and dying when the collosus got sniped heh. tell the matchmaker to pair me up with someone who does the polt rush every time next.
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If you 1gate FE you can go 1starport/1robo phoenix/colossus and just try to counter this build in spades. You get a bunch of zealots and colossi for the marines and phoenixes for the banshees, and if he stops making banshees you have phoenixes to kill vikings.
EDIT: don't go phoenix/colossus blindly out of fear for banshees, Megarax MMM will crush you. The starport is just a reactively put down when you see the Tech lab starports.
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On November 11 2010 12:20 RaNgeD wrote:Watch the rep. thx.
I watched the replay. Your opening looked good until about 6:30 where you decided to expand, get 2 observers, and get a twilight council all at the same time on 1 warp gate while only knowing that your opponent took a second gas and made a marine. =/
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this might be counter-intuitive because I'm still experimenting with how it works but if you see an early factory, go for 3 gate blink stalkers. Blink past the block at his ramp and without bunkers (and most likely, without stim), you'll be able to do enough dmg (or kill him) that you can outmacro him easily.
Pick off scv's, add-ons, supply depots, and small portions of his army... you should be good.
It worked for me the one time I tried it (which I did out of frustration because nothing else was working) but it worked amazingly.
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I've been able to hold off marine-banshee-raven timing attacks as protoss with 1 gate FE 1t 1800-1900 diamond. I pressure and scout the front of his base alot. If I only see marines in a bunker I immediatly know he's going raven/banshee/marine. In response I get 3 gates + stargate + robo. Robo only makes 1 observer (this is mandatory). Gates pump stalkers, while stargate gets pheonix. You can tip your hand at 2 pheonix and start harassing his banshee's/ravens in his base. Cannons are great here because they provide detection to deter obsrever sniping by stimmed marines in case he gets cloak. He has to attack you or be outeconned. Micro stalkers, use phoenix to kill banshees, just keep microing stalkers to pick off marines. The longer you can delay his attack with your pheonix harassing his banshees/raven in base the less dangerous his push becomes.
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I went against this build earlier this week in the later, and damn it is hard to counter, I had 2 collosi out, with immortals, stalkers, chargelots, and my opponent RAN ME OVER. It was a fight at about 80 food on my own ramp, his tanks sieged up and blasted all of my units, and he advanced with his somehwhat large amount of marines will attacking my collosi. I have never seen such pure power from a build in my life.
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EPT
