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On November 08 2010 12:19 GoldenH wrote:I do gateway + core with the space between the buildings. The reason is, when I see banelings coming, I can throw down a forcefield in the middle. That forces him to do no splash damage, taking down a maximum of one building. Any other position means that I have to use 1 forcefield to protect a building & 1 forcefield to protect the units in the choke. In general I am happy to make him waste his banelings on one building. Because Forcefield doesn't last forever! You can put your pylon actually behind the choke, so that a zergling runby won't work, and they can't push him out of the way by spam clicking move. But I find it's difficult to place this pylon and prefer just to leave all my units there. So with my first pylon, i place it so that the power circle is just barely touching both sides of the choke. But I will build it when I move out to attack to prevent a counterattack. Also note that the Zealot is a little bit back. The reason for this is because you only want 1 zergling to be able to attack the zealot at a time. If you look in the other wall pictured, fully 3-4 zerglings can attack one zealot at a time! He's not going to be able to hold on very long like that. Only problem is, sometimes you have to be careful. or your units will get stuck. On this map, for example, I have to rally my units to the top left, or else they might get stuck. You might want to swap the cyber core and gateway if you are worried about that. ![[image loading]](http://hammerand.com/goldenh/wall.JPG)
This.
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On November 08 2010 10:50 Darthturtle wrote:Normally, when I baneling bust, I have to settle for wasting the banelings on a zealot or two and gain no tangible advantage besides an entrance. With this wall, I can kill your zealot, cap your supply, and unpower your gateway all in one go. Thanks, dude! Try busting this bad boy:
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/scrg/junkdump/5133914d.jpg)
The prism is to ferry units in and out, of course.
Anyway, I agree that that wall is terrible. If someone did that with me while I was zerging I would really be like 'Hmm, is this guy baiting me into sacrificing a lot of banelings and zerglings while he's secretly going for ultra fast dt tech for the win?
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On November 08 2010 12:43 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 10:50 Darthturtle wrote:On November 08 2010 10:18 Jaeger wrote:I like this sim city. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/QVqY6.jpg) Normally, when I baneling bust, I have to settle for wasting the banelings on a zealot or two and gain no tangible advantage besides an entrance. With this wall, I can kill your zealot, cap your supply, and unpower your gateway all in one go. Thanks, dude! Try busting this bad boy: The prism is to ferry units in and out, of course. Anyway, I agree that that wall is terrible. If someone did that with me while I was zerging I would really be like 'Hmm, is this guy baiting me into sacrificing a lot of banelings and zerglings while he's secretly going for ultra fast dt tech for the win?
The prism is kinda lulzy(pylon works fine there). Anyhow, that wall's a recipe for one-base all-in if I ever saw one, because there's no way you'll be able to run your units back and forth on that to deal with muta or drop/nydus harass at multiple bases.
Although it is quite baneling-proof.
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On November 08 2010 12:56 Darthturtle wrote:
The prism is kinda lulzy(pylon works fine there). Pylon doesn't ferry them back, it just warps them down.
Anyhow, that wall's a recipe for one-base all-in if I ever saw one, because there's no way you'll be able to run your units back and forth on that to deal with muta or drop/nydus harass at multiple bases. It's not really meant serious, I actually made that especially for this thread.
Although it is quite baneling-proof. Nahhh, 150 should do it.
On November 08 2010 12:58 GoldenH wrote:
Just get Blink! Massing stalkers is for noobs, I like my zealots and sentries.
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Well he may be able to take the bottom right two gateways out with splash damage and just run in... I'm not sure if they can fit in that little gap there. I've had players willing to do ANYTHING to stop me from getting my tech :D
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Yup, only Archons take a 2 by 2 matrix! Sort of sucks, they aren't much bigger than Immortals if at all and they're like, plasma energy while Immortals are actually solid metal xD
But definitely wall with Gate+Cyber, not with Pylon+Gate. Only reason for Pylon+Gate would be if you want a quicker wall off in case of really early zerglings like a 6 pool or if you're only going to make 1 pylon and want to be able to warp units outside from that 1 pylon xD
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On November 08 2010 12:43 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 10:50 Darthturtle wrote:On November 08 2010 10:18 Jaeger wrote:I like this sim city. Normally, when I baneling bust, I have to settle for wasting the banelings on a zealot or two and gain no tangible advantage besides an entrance. With this wall, I can kill your zealot, cap your supply, and unpower your gateway all in one go. Thanks, dude! Try busting this bad boy: The prism is to ferry units in and out, of course. Anyway, I agree that that wall is terrible. If someone did that with me while I was zerging I would really be like 'Hmm, is this guy baiting me into sacrificing a lot of banelings and zerglings while he's secretly going for ultra fast dt tech for the win?
I think I'm going to start doing this.
I mean, I just 4gate every single game, what's the difference - more security at my front? I shall take it.
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On November 08 2010 12:43 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 10:50 Darthturtle wrote:On November 08 2010 10:18 Jaeger wrote:I like this sim city. Normally, when I baneling bust, I have to settle for wasting the banelings on a zealot or two and gain no tangible advantage besides an entrance. With this wall, I can kill your zealot, cap your supply, and unpower your gateway all in one go. Thanks, dude! Try busting this bad boy: The prism is to ferry units in and out, of course. Anyway, I agree that that wall is terrible. If someone did that with me while I was zerging I would really be like 'Hmm, is this guy baiting me into sacrificing a lot of banelings and zerglings while he's secretly going for ultra fast dt tech for the win?
That looks like an auto loss to roaches at the front sniping gateways while your stalkers can't get position to shoot down at them and an ovie spots.
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On November 08 2010 13:06 Psymage2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:43 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:On November 08 2010 10:50 Darthturtle wrote:On November 08 2010 10:18 Jaeger wrote:I like this sim city. Normally, when I baneling bust, I have to settle for wasting the banelings on a zealot or two and gain no tangible advantage besides an entrance. With this wall, I can kill your zealot, cap your supply, and unpower your gateway all in one go. Thanks, dude! Try busting this bad boy: The prism is to ferry units in and out, of course. Anyway, I agree that that wall is terrible. If someone did that with me while I was zerging I would really be like 'Hmm, is this guy baiting me into sacrificing a lot of banelings and zerglings while he's secretly going for ultra fast dt tech for the win? I think I'm going to start doing this. I mean, I just 4gate every single game, what's the difference - more security at my front? I shall take it. Lol, this is actually a reasonable argument. Just be sure to have a probe out to plant the pylon.
Of course, you're giving away yourself totally and you can't send over the units you already have, but oh well.
Or maybe just get the prism and useit as a mobile proxy, no need for the probe then and you can ferry your initial units there.
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On November 08 2010 12:59 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:Massing stalkers is for noobs, I like my zealots and sentries.
Oh definitely, but if you get blink, thats faster elevator time for the rest of your units.
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On November 08 2010 13:40 GoldenH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:59 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:On November 08 2010 12:58 GoldenH wrote:
Just get Blink! Massing stalkers is for noobs, I like my zealots and sentries. Oh definitely, but if you get blink, thats faster elevator time for the rest of your units. Ahh, I thought blink and no prism.
I love how people take this fake screenshot I made for humourous reasons seriously by the way.
I don't wall in, not even against zerg, except when I scout a 6pool, and even then I depends if my first pylon can cover both my nexus and the ramp. I only build it to cover both when I go against zerg or against random on xel'naga.
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You may think it lol but a lot of people do it seriously....
I always take it as an invitation to expand.
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On November 08 2010 11:30 Darthturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 10:57 Jaeger wrote:On November 08 2010 10:50 Darthturtle wrote:On November 08 2010 10:18 Jaeger wrote:I like this sim city. Normally, when I baneling bust, I have to settle for wasting the banelings on a zealot or two and gain no tangible advantage besides an entrance. With this wall, I can kill your zealot, cap your supply, and unpower your gateway all in one go. Thanks, dude! Right because you totally have banelings by the time a protoss has a pylon gateway and zealot out. It's so bad that Genius uses it in gsl. http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1151Obviously an auto loss vs a zerg. You might have the wrong impression about banelings. They're not actually countered by a pylon/zealot wall. This might be difficult to understand, but they're actually used to kill the wall. It doesn't matter if you can wall off with a pylon/zealot before I get banelings. I'm waiting for you to get that wall up so I can exploit it's weakness.
According to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Baneling_Rush_(vs._Terran) a typical baneling bust comes at around 6:30. At this timing given a pretty normal PvZ opening you'll have 3 gates with warpgate done, a zealot, and ~6 sentries and be gearing up to secure your natural. Your wall-in isn't even relevant for defending a baneling bust.
No one is arguing that a zealot pylon gateway wall-off is there to stop a baneling bust, its there to hold early pools, ling runbys, and ling counter attacks.
Now if you're doing some sort of fast tech play sure you might want a stronger wall-in as you won't have the units to hold the baneling bust.
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Don't listen to the baneling bust people. By the time banelings come you should have sentries out, and unless you don't pay attention and aren't scouting you can easily block off your ramp.
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I'm an idiot who likes to drop an early forge for upgrades. Thus, I usually have a cannon or two mixed into my wall. I do leave the one space gap and typically block with a zealot and have a sentry behind him for FF. Just another suggestion while you're peeking at ideas.
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EPT
