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I'm currently ~ 1800 wondering what higher level zerg players prefer in Z v P or Z v T
So far I'm a lover of Hatch first at around 14 or 15 but it's starting to get really annoying when Terran's and Toss players build Pylon or Bunker block your NE. I hate having to have 1 or 2 drone patrol the entrance to prevent this from occurring. Having less then 2 drones effects your economy and you can't really use 2 hatcheries + 1or 2 queen to its full potential because of the mineral restrictions restrictions (you have to pay for drones + overlord + lings to scout). Hatch first is also annoying b/c harder to defend the NE and harder to defend all-in rushes compared to Pool first / delayed hatch. Pool first allows for early map control and it's easy to defend early attacks. So whats everybody else's take on it.
I remember watching a stream of Steve (aka Destiny) he said that pool first/ delayed hatchery was better on ANY MAP. He tried to test this with another zerg player but in the end both economies were very similar. Only way to get the real answer somebody needs to do a systematic test to both builds.
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Only way to get the real answer somebody needs to do a systematic test to both builds.
please let us know your results. kthx =)
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On October 29 2010 01:05 pingy[wen] wrote:Show nested quote +Only way to get the real answer somebody needs to do a systematic test to both builds. please let us know your results. kthx =)
Never said i was going to do it. haha Would take a very long time to do this because you'd have to use similar map location and everything has to go perfect.
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So you are voluteering someone else to do something for you... That takes alot of work... That you want... ...
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i was watching destiny's stream when he was testing this with copro. although they seemed similar, i would have to agree with the observation that pool first is far less risky for potentially a minimal economic benefit.
for the record, he and copro were racing to either 30 or 50 drones, only droning (+queens) and ended in a virtual tie each time. they did several trials, but each were subject to human error, etc.
it would be interesting if this challenge could go through that zerg bo optimizer thread....
bo's tested:
hatch first - 15h/14p
pool first - 13p/16h
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Depending on map. Close spawns I've been going back to 14/15 pool because of the same problems you're running into. I feel it's become more of a liability than a benefit.
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On maps where its much harder to defend the natural, (4gate on blistering sands for example) I really prefer to 15 hatch in base than 15 pool. The reason being that when I do take my natural expansion around 27 supply I have much more larvae for production available which = more units I have to defend. It can be very effective, but you honestly need to practice it a bit to get the feel + timings down.
Edit: Oh, and if he comes with the push as your hatch is building/built, the time he spent attacking that is well worth the 300 minerals since it gave you about a whole nother minute to build/prepare to takeout his force.
As long as he doesn't have his expo up and running, it really doesn't put you behind by much.
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The zerg build order optimizer isn't a build order tester. It only optimizes builds. There is no way of optimizing a build where you've already stated exactly when to expand, when to pool and when to build drones. can juggle around with the queen timing, but it's still just a simple search.
I can however give you the results on what the fastest way to get 4lings and 50 drones is...
I'll let it run for a while.
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On paper, going pool first gives you more production, and more money. Your queen finishes faster, and the fact the queen is cheap still lets you place a hatch quickly.
Going for a 15 hatch in base is always inferior. If you got an early queen you'd have more larva production than if you went hatch in base, and it would cost you half as much. That's until you got your second queen at least.
Queen gives you 6 larva per minute. Hatchery gives you 4 larva per minute. A queen takes 50 seconds to build, and the hatch takes 100 seconds to build. Even if you were to pool at the exact same time that you would hatch (Which you wouldn't) you'd still be behind.
Going Hatch first at your nat means your hatchery is established before any strong timing pushes can be executed. It's pretty tough to apply enough pressure to force a cancel on a 14 hatch in general. A later hatch is easier to stop because the other races have a chance to get their production established. A bunker shouldn't be able to block a 14 hatch, because your hatch will be going down before a barracks finishes. A bunker rush next to your hatch can be expected, but that can be stopped with drone and ling control.
I don't think I would say that pool first is less risky. Maybe pool first means you feel more safe, but what do you need those lings so early for? Unless your opponent is doing some all-in early gateway or barracks cheese, a normal barracks or gateway timing, especially now with the supply depot requirement for building the barracks is going to have a hell of a time forcing you to cancel that natural. However, if you delay putting that natural down, that's when you have the possibility that they actually have a reasonable sized force that can delay that hatch or force a cancel. The faster you can get the hatch up, the sooner you can get a spine crawler on it too.
I'd say it's just better to be able to stop the bunker rush with drones and your first few lings. Delaying that hatch a bit could mean you end up having to delay it much longer than you want to if 1base pressure is applied, and being down a hatch, or down 2 geysers if you hatch in main means you're going to have a hard time securing that number advantage that zerg needs to survive the midgame.
In my opinion, in the ultra-early game, yeah, it's a bit harder to defend hatch first than pool first. However, options that early in the game are limited, you only have to learn how to deal with a very few possible options that your opponents can throw at you. If you can learn how do deal with those possibilities, the benefits that the hatch-first build gives you in the midgame really more than make up for it.
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15 hatch/14 pool as long as you can pull it off and aren't very close positions
hiding the drone outside your natural works sometimes to prevent the block. their scout worker will usually at least check to make sure its not a 6 pool before he goes back down to block the hatch
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15 hatch/14 pool as long as you can pull it off and aren't very close positions
hiding the drone outside your natural works sometimes to prevent the block. their scout worker will usually at least check to make sure its not a 6 pool before he goes back down to block the hatch
i think its actually easier to defend most one-base allins (IE 4 gate) with hatch first provided you can get it down on time. its only really early aggression thats a little rough if it comes early enough (before the benefit from the extra larva can do anything)
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I prefer 14 or 15 hatch versus terran.
14 pool into hatch versus protoss. Because the early early pressure is quite a bit more powerful than terran.
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I'm running the build order tester with only one condition:
Get 50 drones and 4 lings (I didn't specify when the lings had to be out, but as long as the pool isn't stupidly late, you can always switch them for earlier drones with minimal delay)
Surprisingly... after almost 800.000 games played the fastest way to get 50 drones and 4 lings is... 10pool/10overlord
I guess drones are cheap enough for the extra larvae production from fast queens to really be worth it.
10 SpawningPool M:204 G:0
10 Overlord M:100 G:0
13 Queen M:153 G:0
16 Hatchery M:305 G:0
17 Overlord M:108 G:0
19 Queen M:202 G:0
22 Overlord M:103 G:0
35 Overlord M:327 G:0
36 Overlord M:489 G:0
36 Queen M:605 G:0
39 Overlord M:405 G:0
40 Queen M:255 G:0
45 Zergling M:286 G:0
49 Zergling M:199 G:0
50 Overlord M:149 G:0
This is only 20 minutes though, it might change at some point. the final drone pops at 6:18
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That's almost exactly what I did before I started getting 15 Hatch / 14 Pool up to the 22 Overlord. Always got a second Hatchery inside my main ASAP Guess I was a bit smarter (ignoring the fact that I didnt build the Hatch at my Natural) before I read those build orders.
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Some of you guys aren't understanding the reason for this post. If you go to higher level gaming 1700+ rating. 70% of the Terrans/ Toss's will attempt to delay your FE as long as they can whether it's Cannon/Bunker rush / Blocking ramp/ building pylon or bunker or engineering bay on expo location. They won't allow you to build your expo freely w/o pressure. Good players scout right before you can get your hatch up (especially toss's). Your Expo will be delayed to the point where it's not that useful. The 300 minerals you saved up for hatch would be better spent Droning or a later/earlier pool
This post is not about whether you can defend your FE. It's about the overall advantage. FE strat is always accompanied by Droning/defending to some type of Timing push/attack. Pool first is a lot more flexible in that you can do any strategy you want.
FE is VERY predictable.
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on 2 players maps its hard
on 4 player you can usually get the 15 hatch down uncontested if you hide a drone and/or aren't close positions. like I said most people will at least check for an early pool before they start blocking the natural
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On October 29 2010 01:55 Palmar wrote:
I'm running the build order tester with only one condition:
Get 50 drones and 4 lings (I didn't specify when the lings had to be out, but as long as the pool isn't stupidly late, you can always switch them for earlier drones with minimal delay)
Surprisingly... after almost 800.000 games played the fastest way to get 50 drones and 4 lings is... 10pool/10overlord
This is sort of surprising. I almost wonder if income is being overestimated by the simulation or something. Or we are all just pooling way to late and hatching way too early.
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I think you are answering your own question in a way though, aren't you?
I mean if you are finding you are getting blocked/cannoned/bunkered and aren't successfully defending with hatch first then you have to pool first. You know the solutions, can patrol a drone at the choke, can have drones ready if an scv shows up, etc. but you've already stated you don't like the economic hit you take from that so make your pool first. Not sure what magic answer you are expecting otherwise.
I mean my honest answer would be just gauge it on the map... some maps you can go hatch first and the risk of the above are a lot less. If that is the case I think hatch first is better. However, if it is a map that lends itself to the easier harass, or you get close positions etc. then pool.
The build optimizer is always fun to look at. I might try a 10pool/10 ol/16 expand tonight and see how it goes. Could fool someone into thinking you are doing like a 10 pool 1 base type build.
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On October 29 2010 01:45 zeidrichthorene wrote:
Going Hatch first at your nat means your hatchery is established before any strong timing pushes can be executed. It's pretty tough to apply enough pressure to force a cancel on a 14 hatch in general. A later hatch is easier to stop because the other races have a chance to get their production established. A bunker shouldn't be able to block a 14 hatch, because your hatch will be going down before a barracks finishes. A bunker rush next to your hatch can be expected, but that can be stopped with drone and ling control.
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You obviously do not know your game timings if you think a 14 hatch is invincible to bunker rushes. Bunker rushes are there to just delay your economy. Stopping the bunker rush is not even the issue. It's what comes after it. A terran will most likely be able mine very efficiently compared to you w/ orbital command. Plus what makes bunker rushes cheap is the salvage button. Terrans are at no loss if they just delay your expo. They can easily salvage and run away after you make 10 lings in an attempt to kill bunker the bunker
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There's also the pain of pulling drone off the mineral line to defend, etc.
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If you're asking whether high level zergs hatch first or pool first, it's pretty easy to find the answer just by watching high level zergs play.
Hatch first.
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On October 29 2010 02:48 Enervate wrote:
If you're asking whether high level zergs hatch first or pool first, it's pretty easy to find the answer just by watching high level zergs play.
Hatch first.
You understand that there are 2 styles of playing Zerg. FE or 1 base. It's a 50/50 split IMO amongst upper level zergs. In lower leagues, everybody FE... I play some custom games when i'm off racing w/ terran or toss so i know what low level diamond players do.
On the other hand high level players have like a 50/50 split. My friend does 1 base he's ~ 1900 while i usually attempt to FE. I've seen a couple 2000+ streams where they FE and some that don't IE Steven (aka) Destiny. I just want the opinions from the people that do pool first. Watching replays/ streams can not give you an answer.
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Depends on your style if you ask me.
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On October 29 2010 02:58 Ksyper wrote:
Depends on your style if you ask me.
I want to be a complete player so i want to know ALL styles.
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On October 29 2010 02:51 Benshin88 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 02:48 Enervate wrote:
If you're asking whether high level zergs hatch first or pool first, it's pretty easy to find the answer just by watching high level zergs play.
Hatch first. You understand that there are 2 styles of playing Zerg. FE or 1 base. It's a 50/50 split IMO amongst upper level zergs. In lower leagues, everybody FE... I play some custom games when i'm off racing w/ terran or toss so i know what low level diamond players do. On the other hand high level players have like a 50/50 split. My friend does 1 base he's ~ 1900 while i usually attempt to FE. I've seen a couple 2000+ streams where they FE and some that don't IE Steven (aka) Destiny. I just want the opinions from the people that do pool first. Watching replays/ streams can not give you an answer.
What the hell are you talking about. Everyone FE as Zerg, except in ZvZ. If you go 1 base you do a all-in or some wierd thing. ZvZ not included.
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On October 29 2010 02:51 Benshin88 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 02:48 Enervate wrote:
If you're asking whether high level zergs hatch first or pool first, it's pretty easy to find the answer just by watching high level zergs play.
Hatch first. You understand that there are 2 styles of playing Zerg. FE or 1 base. It's a 50/50 split IMO amongst upper level zergs. In lower leagues, everybody FE... I play some custom games when i'm off racing w/ terran or toss so i know what low level diamond players do. On the other hand high level players have like a 50/50 split. My friend does 1 base he's ~ 1900 while i usually attempt to FE. I've seen a couple 2000+ streams where they FE and some that don't IE Steven (aka) Destiny. I just want the opinions from the people that do pool first. Watching replays/ streams can not give you an answer.
You understand that you're wrong. I <3 destiny, you probably see me modding his chat all the time, but all upper level zergs (as in tournament results) FE. I'll agree that there's two styles of FE, speedling expand and straight up FE, but if you think 1 base zerg is viable vs competent P's/T's you're sadly mistaken.
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What exactly are these "high level one base Zs" pulling off? Roach rushes? One base Z loses so badly to one base T or P.
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I think we're talking about fast expands in all cases, just the difference between a 15 hatch 14 pool, and a 14 pool 20-22 hatch.
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On October 29 2010 03:27 Bowdy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 02:51 Benshin88 wrote:On October 29 2010 02:48 Enervate wrote:
If you're asking whether high level zergs hatch first or pool first, it's pretty easy to find the answer just by watching high level zergs play.
Hatch first. You understand that there are 2 styles of playing Zerg. FE or 1 base. It's a 50/50 split IMO amongst upper level zergs. In lower leagues, everybody FE... I play some custom games when i'm off racing w/ terran or toss so i know what low level diamond players do. On the other hand high level players have like a 50/50 split. My friend does 1 base he's ~ 1900 while i usually attempt to FE. I've seen a couple 2000+ streams where they FE and some that don't IE Steven (aka) Destiny. I just want the opinions from the people that do pool first. Watching replays/ streams can not give you an answer. You understand that you're wrong. I <3 destiny, you probably see me modding his chat all the time, but all upper level zergs (as in tournament results) FE. I'll agree that there's two styles of FE, speedling expand and straight up FE, but if you think 1 base zerg is viable vs competent P's/T's you're sadly mistaken.
What i meant by 1 base was hatch after pool... I should have said Pool first hatch 2nd.
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What i meant by 1 base was hatch after pool... I should have said Pool first hatch 2nd.
Got ya :p yeah i agree then
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I personally prefer doing a
15 hatch 14 pool on extremely large maps,
14 hatch 13 pool on smaller maps.
I know this one zerg player that is experimenting with a double extractor 12 hatch 11 pool that actually seems pretty solid vs relatively fast rushes. These are all vs T and P.
I've been very surprised at how much aggression can be held off even when 15 hatch 14 pool goes down. You just can't do it when being proxied etc...
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On October 29 2010 02:58 Ksyper wrote:
Depends on your style if you ask me.
i completely agree with this. I find pool first works well if you enjoy playing it safe or for earlier aggression while hatch first works well to secure you a stronger econ.
In general as zerg, you're gonna wanna expand rather "early" anyways. Most of the time, if youre not FE-ing, you're expanding at around 20-30 supply. 1base play is mostly considered all-in.
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On October 29 2010 02:48 Enervate wrote:
If you're asking whether high level zergs hatch first or pool first, it's pretty easy to find the answer just by watching high level zergs play.
Hatch first.
Troll ? If not ban plz, we don't want ignorant ppl.
On October 29 2010 00:56 Benshin88 wrote:
I remember watching a stream of Steve (aka Destiny) he said that pool first/ delayed hatchery was better on ANY MAP. He tried to test this with another zerg player but in the end both economies were very similar. Only way to get the real answer somebody needs to do a systematic test to both builds.
He's right. I've already tested multiples times. The only downside about going pool first is maybe the lack of creep you get from the 2nd hatch to have sunkens placed on better positions. Economy's wise, it's exactly the same. Why is that ? Because you get the 1st queen way earlier than the hatch first assuming you go for a pool first hatch 2nd at 15-16-17 supply. Still i'd rather get pool first because of so many opening you can get. Hell i'd not mind at all to have 1 or 2 less drones overall if i go 2nd hatch at 20 supply.
On October 29 2010 01:45 zeidrichthorene wrote:
Going Hatch first at your nat means your hatchery is established before any strong timing pushes can be executed. It's pretty tough to apply enough pressure to force a cancel on a 14 hatch in general. A later hatch is easier to stop because the other races have a chance to get their production established. A bunker shouldn't be able to block a 14 hatch, because your hatch will be going down before a barracks finishes. A bunker rush next to your hatch can be expected, but that can be stopped with drone and ling control.
Hello supply ? Hello barrack ? Hello engineering bay ? Bunker isn't the only option to delay FE you know.
Whatever. I'm upset at ppl following blindly what progamers do without even experiencing themselves or asking why they're doing it.
And for the sake of being called an idiot keep in mind i've 1850+. So gogo bash.
I've did some screenshots about the hatch first vs pool first build, the idea was to get 40 drones for each bases, lemme find this topic... >_<
Edit : Can't find it T_T The search result has been kinda shortened or am i doing it wrong ? Can't find my older's posts which were probably like in the july or august's time...
Basically either one of these build had a little advantage over the other about economy but in the end it was exactly the same. Can't remember which one though. I really can't find this topic 
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On October 29 2010 10:28 RaiZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 02:48 Enervate wrote:
If you're asking whether high level zergs hatch first or pool first, it's pretty easy to find the answer just by watching high level zergs play.
Hatch first. Troll ? If not ban plz, we don't want ignorant ppl. Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 00:56 Benshin88 wrote:
I remember watching a stream of Steve (aka Destiny) he said that pool first/ delayed hatchery was better on ANY MAP. He tried to test this with another zerg player but in the end both economies were very similar. Only way to get the real answer somebody needs to do a systematic test to both builds. He's right. I've already tested multiples times. The only downside about going pool first is maybe the lack of creep you get from the 2nd hatch to have sunkens placed on better positions. Economy's wise, it's exactly the same. Why is that ? Because you get the 1st queen way earlier than the hatch first assuming you go for a pool first hatch 2nd at 15-16-17 supply. Still i'd rather get pool first because of so many opening you can get. Hell i'd not mind at all to have 1 or 2 less drones overall if i go 2nd hatch at 20 supply. Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 01:45 zeidrichthorene wrote:
Going Hatch first at your nat means your hatchery is established before any strong timing pushes can be executed. It's pretty tough to apply enough pressure to force a cancel on a 14 hatch in general. A later hatch is easier to stop because the other races have a chance to get their production established. A bunker shouldn't be able to block a 14 hatch, because your hatch will be going down before a barracks finishes. A bunker rush next to your hatch can be expected, but that can be stopped with drone and ling control.
Hello supply ? Hello barrack ? Hello engineering bay ? Bunker isn't the only option to delay FE you know. Whatever. I'm upset at ppl following blindly what progamers do without even experiencing themselves or asking why they're doing it. And for the sake of being called an idiot keep in mind i've 1850+. So gogo bash. I've did some screenshots about the hatch first vs pool first build, the idea was to get 40 drones for each bases, lemme find this topic... >_<
Thank you for posting this - my thoughts exactly.
I don't understand why people are 'discussing' about the economy difference when there is none. There are several things to discuss, not economy related.
hatch first will:
- give you creep at the nat
- give you a higher hp (albeit un-cancel-able) structure for defending a well timed push
- delay lings
- delay queen #1
- show fast expand very early on
- earlier queen #2 (slightly)
pool first will
- give you queen #1 earlier
- give you lings eariler (if required)
- delay creep at nat
- possibility of denying scouting
- delayed queen #2 (slightly)
These are the differences.
I have a question regarding this:- due to the fact that you get 2nd hatch up faster, you are producing more 'energyless' larva (larva that doesn't take energy to produce). Does this mean you can squeeze in an extra creep tumor with hatch first? Or the fact that your queen comes out earlier in pool first, allowing for more energy regen, offset this?
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Getting an early hatch is not so much about the economy, especially because in sc2 you can have 15 drones on your main an it will be the same has having 9 on your main and 6 on your nat. The thing is, the early nat hatch just gives you a lot more early possibilites and sets you better for whatever course you want to follow in the game, you want to go macro? You can power drone like in heaven with no need to maynard. Want to go harassing?, you have more production and can spread creep better, in fact you can use the first 75 energy purely in creeps if you want which also lets you defend better against rush.
Finally, you can keep your opponent guessing more. Again, its in no WAY just for the economy, you can get the same or better economy by going with an early pool. This is pretty evident if you guys start going early hatch on ZvZ, cause you will fin that you CAN GET outmacroed by an early pool.
Hope i made it clear this keyboard is awful. (not on my pc)
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So, I let the build order optimizer run through the night.
link to my first reply: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=164575#14
It did some weird shit and managed to shave off one second.
The goal was to get 50 drones and 4 lings as fast as possible, no other restraints. The fastest build was 6:17 where it went for a very early third hatch and 3 queens. But that's only one second faster than the build I already posted earlier in this thread.
10 SpawningPool M:204 G:0
10 Overlord M:100 G:0
13 Queen M:153 G:0
16 Hatchery M:305 G:0
17 Overlord M:108 G:0
19 Queen M:202 G:0
22 Overlord M:103 G:0
35 Overlord M:327 G:0
36 Overlord M:489 G:0
36 Queen M:605 G:0
39 Overlord M:405 G:0
40 Queen M:255 G:0
45 Zergling M:286 G:0
49 Zergling M:199 G:0
50 Overlord M:149 G:0
Should we consider opening 10pool into expand every game? I will most definitely give it a shot.
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This is two years ago, can I still trust the comments posted in this thread or have there been any major zerg changes since?
I am only in high silver, winning and losing vs gold players atm. I have gone 15 hatch, 16 pool or so for most of my games. But I'm not sure it is worth the risk, maybe because of me rising in level (only laddered 20-25 matches or so, since changing to zerg for a challenge).
But that early queen you get with pool first, and hte faster lings, I might be more comfortable with that unless the map is large.
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If you want to go Hatch first at least be good enough to deal with a canon rush.
Hatch first is a very greedy opening. Forces Protoss 2 pressure.
Pool first is a way better opening, because of mindgames.
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Holy necro batman.
In ZvT I'm going 15 hatch/16 pool, with ZvP I'm going pool first because of the chance of getting cannon rushed/hatch blocked. To avoid getting walled in against terran you can patrol a drone at the base of your ramp at 17 food or a little before 3 minutes. fwiw I'm in master league.
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To say allins are more easily defended with pool first is misleading, as more larvae and more lings, with often an earlier 2nd queen and better creep at the natural, a faster crawler; all these things resulting from hatch first can help to hold off allins. Hellions are also more easily repelled with hatch first. The faster speed helps sure, but I do not die to those sorts of fast allins anymore, where I would need faster speed. And some allins work specifically vs pool first, such as a 2 rax in your face bunker wall of the ramp, relies on the absence of creep.
The 2nd queen putting down a creep tumor, built from the fast 2nd hatch, is compensation for not being able to use all larvae.
The drone patrolling (1 drone) to block a bunker: this one drone costs money yes. Yet even with pool first you can be blocked in by bunkers at this time. The majority of the money cost in a pool first comes from the earlier extractor and gas. With a 14 pool 16 hatch maybe this can save money by repelling early game bunker pressures more easily.
With the ebay / bunker block of hatch; for this I send out a scouting drone at a specific timing, where he may check for incoming SCVs; also position scouting overlord as such. This allows the proper reaction for pool hatch or hatch pool. But pool gas in ZvT, this I think is too much.
For questioning which build to use in ZvP, hatch first is a risk in this matchup; if you are only now considering a pylon may block your hatch first, and you may die to zealot cannon rush, have you been absent these many months?
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Why are you necro'ing such an old thread? No, you can't do what's discussed in this thread anymore.
Hatch first is a build order loss to Toss who go forge first or gateway first into reactive forge. You simply cannot hold a cannon rush or zealot/cannon rush - you can pull drones, but the difference is when your pool is so late, Toss can eventually throw down so many pylons and cannons in cute little places where only 2 drones can hit it, that pulling all of your drones won't be enough; even if you survive, Toss was mining with 17 workers against your 15 workers and he's simply ahead.
Pool First against Toss (I'd recommend 14 pool. Some go 15 pool, I don't like it because if he blocks it, your expo is much later, so I don't think it's more economic).
In ZvT - hatch first is the standard. You will plant it before bunker goes down. Have first overlord you make at 9 go over hatch to spot for bunkers. Don't *ever* let a bunker go up, pull ~3 workers per bunker being made and shift+Attack on that building SCV a million times so the drones follow it as it moves around while building, and then pull ~4 drones per marine that comes. Just pulling about 3/4 of your drones to go mine at your natural and deal with any bunker/marine pressure will be fine until you figure out the nuances of bunker rushing (besides, it's better to pull more drones than have to make more lings, and you just CANNOT let a bunker go up, ever).
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EPT
