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Sakuya
United States27 Posts
Beats early 3 base / early roaches(scouted) / and most importantly baneling busts The hellion comes out and sometimes I find banelines morphing right outside my base as the timings collide and I can reinforce my wall easily. The one hellion can also force the zerg to prematurely try his bust as 1 hellion can kill alot of unspeeded zergs/banes | ||
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
On November 15 2010 14:53 jay236 wrote: Timing's are really nice in your replays. I noticed that a lot of the Zerg's play in the dark for most of the time. No overlord pokes were done in the replays I watched (I think the top 3?) and only zergling pokes were done to see your reactor factory (later to be switched with the barracks). It's nice because it makes the zerg put some spines down. I'm really digging the 6 marine/1 hellion harass. You probably can steamroll the opponents more if you had your apm up to micro the hellion you sometimes lose. I'm also convinced that it works because it's evident that you don't need a huge amount of mechanical skill to pull it off. I'll have to try this vs Zerg...so far the FoxeR marine/scv all-in is working for me, but we all know SC2 is more about eco, and people will start figuring out how to defend the cheese lol. yeah sometimes i would much prefer to have two more marines instead of the hellion because of how much faster it is than the marines, my apm has been slowly climbing in recent weeks so im sure ill get better with that micro | ||
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Vorlik
1522 Posts
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KoArtist
Colombia23 Posts
I was wondering though, since your timing push comes before mutas, would it not be preferable to go with 3 tanks instead of 2 thors? The tanks' damage output is great against the numerous speedlings. | ||
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
On November 15 2010 22:28 KoArtist wrote: Hey Pookie, thanks for the insight on the drop. I see your point on making zerg miss larva injects, quite logical. I was wondering though, since your timing push comes before mutas, would it not be preferable to go with 3 tanks instead of 2 thors? The tanks' damage output is great against the numerous speedlings. you know ive been debating that myself and i think im going to try that in a few games and see how that goes | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
Why not get 2 tanks, 2 hellions if it is speedlings? | ||
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
On November 15 2010 22:55 Antisocialmunky wrote: I have a feeling that Mutas will pop shortly after you get there and you may be screwed. Why not get 2 tanks, 2 hellions if it is speedlings? you mean if you try to get three tanks? you should instead push with 2 tanks and two hellions right? | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
Overall I don't think it's your strategy that works but the way you pull it out (altho we could call it strategy, I think it's more micro-related ... ) | ||
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
On November 15 2010 23:20 noD wrote: Don't take this as offense, i really liked the replays and I think it was an incredibly gameplay, your just so good, but overall I dont think it's the strat that beat the opponents at all, but your micro control, and timing, for example in the cellawerra's game you get supply blocked like everytime, but micro drops and marines and hellions so well that he can't expand. Overall I don't think it's your strategy that works but the way you pull it out (altho we could call it strategy, I think it's more micro-related ... ) really? i didnt think my micro was all that great i think the strategy is really good at dealing with a wide range of zerg openings which is why i like it so much and the timings seem to catch so many zergs with their carapace down | ||
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tournamentnow
Australia111 Posts
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
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KoArtist
Colombia23 Posts
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Other than that, very informative! edit: formatted the block of text for easier reading below + Show Spoiler + For my build you should go standard 10 supply but make gas before rax to get a fast factory. use your depot building scv to scout and make sure hes going FE. You should be continually pumping marines, as soon as factory is up you make starport and medivac, you should make a helllion to harass/scout and clear xelnaga towers, and hopefully get him to make alot of frontal defense and only anticipate hellion harrass after the hellion pops out you need to make a reactor add on then switch it out with your barracks to double marine production. Once medivac pops out you should send your 6 marines and the hellion to his main to harrass and do some damage but most importantly GET HIM TO MAKE SOMETHING BESIDES DRONES, overlords and queens are your targets here supply blocking him and reducing his queen number makes banshee harass more devastating as well as the first timing push. be smart with your drop try not to lose the marines. with your starport you should make a banshee and an armory for thors as well as throwing up your own expo. the beauty of banshees is that they allow you to secure your expo with map control until he gets mutas. use the banshee for defense if hes being aggresive otherwise use it to once again clear watch towers and destroy his spreading creep tumors only use the banshee to attack his main if he handled your drop poorly and allowed you to kill his queens or severely weaken them. once your expo is up and running you should continue to pump thors, rines and banshees as gas allows then go for a quick push push once you have either 2 or 4 Thors. Depending on the situation i find the two thor push with all your marines and a banshee or two to be the most effective as many zergs have not yet put up a baneling nest and certainly will not have centrifugal hooks. or have any mutas out yet, allowing you to pick off the banelings before they take out your rines and scvs, spread the rines to reduce damage, if u have foxer grade marine micro or he neglects to make a baneling nest this push is absolutely devastating and ends many, MANY of my terran vs Zerg games. if you still have your drop ship and marines you can do a two pronged attack against his main and natural as he will likely need everything he has to hold off your rines banshees and scv repaired thors and may not even notice the drop in his main, if the zerg goes muta and tries to 3rd expand its usually GG if he goes roaches and banelings with no mutas u can use your banshees and dropship/marines to harass and deny him third. Its your choice whether to stay bio mech switch to all mech or go bio for late game you have all the structures neccesary to start you off on any tech patch you choose. the replays will show more detail, enjoy My apm is only about 100 so this isnt stuff that requires incredible micro and is very viable in high diamond ive beaten cellawerra and Rigid with this build two great zerg players that have live streams here on TL. GL | ||
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
On November 17 2010 01:08 emythrel wrote: to the OP.... please for the love of good use punctuation and spacing. That block of text took me 3 attempts to read properly. Every 8 or so lines you need to start a new paragraph. Other than that, very informative! edit: formatted the block of text for easier reading below + Show Spoiler + For my build you should go standard 10 supply but make gas before rax to get a fast factory. use your depot building scv to scout and make sure hes going FE. You should be continually pumping marines, as soon as factory is up you make starport and medivac, you should make a helllion to harass/scout and clear xelnaga towers, and hopefully get him to make alot of frontal defense and only anticipate hellion harrass after the hellion pops out you need to make a reactor add on then switch it out with your barracks to double marine production. Once medivac pops out you should send your 6 marines and the hellion to his main to harrass and do some damage but most importantly GET HIM TO MAKE SOMETHING BESIDES DRONES, overlords and queens are your targets here supply blocking him and reducing his queen number makes banshee harass more devastating as well as the first timing push. be smart with your drop try not to lose the marines. with your starport you should make a banshee and an armory for thors as well as throwing up your own expo. the beauty of banshees is that they allow you to secure your expo with map control until he gets mutas. use the banshee for defense if hes being aggresive otherwise use it to once again clear watch towers and destroy his spreading creep tumors only use the banshee to attack his main if he handled your drop poorly and allowed you to kill his queens or severely weaken them. once your expo is up and running you should continue to pump thors, rines and banshees as gas allows then go for a quick push push once you have either 2 or 4 Thors. Depending on the situation i find the two thor push with all your marines and a banshee or two to be the most effective as many zergs have not yet put up a baneling nest and certainly will not have centrifugal hooks. or have any mutas out yet, allowing you to pick off the banelings before they take out your rines and scvs, spread the rines to reduce damage, if u have foxer grade marine micro or he neglects to make a baneling nest this push is absolutely devastating and ends many, MANY of my terran vs Zerg games. if you still have your drop ship and marines you can do a two pronged attack against his main and natural as he will likely need everything he has to hold off your rines banshees and scv repaired thors and may not even notice the drop in his main, if the zerg goes muta and tries to 3rd expand its usually GG if he goes roaches and banelings with no mutas u can use your banshees and dropship/marines to harass and deny him third. Its your choice whether to stay bio mech switch to all mech or go bio for late game you have all the structures neccesary to start you off on any tech patch you choose. the replays will show more detail, enjoy My apm is only about 100 so this isnt stuff that requires incredible micro and is very viable in high diamond ive beaten cellawerra and Rigid with this build two great zerg players that have live streams here on TL. GL I took your advice without hesitation, thank you | ||
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
On November 17 2010 00:59 KoArtist wrote: Hey pookie, have you tried using 2 tanks in your push already? Just wanted to see if you had a replay doing that. lol i tried it once and it didnt work too well but im gonna experiment more i liek the fact that the push comes sooner than the thor one | ||
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Naftali
United States54 Posts
On November 15 2010 23:20 noD wrote: Don't take this as offense, i really liked the replays and I think it was an incredibly gameplay, your just so good, but overall I dont think it's the strat that beat the opponents at all, but your micro control, and timing, for example in the cellawerra's game you get supply blocked like everytime, but micro drops and marines and hellions so well that he can't expand. Overall I don't think it's your strategy that works but the way you pull it out (altho we could call it strategy, I think it's more micro-related ... ) I'll attest that the strat is not terribly micro-dependent. In doing it perhaps 10 ten times and winning 8, the main micro challenge comes with moving your marines away from banelings. I've found, however, that with enough thors, the banelings don't even matter. With SCVs repairing you'll simply keep marching after the banes clear your marines. Thors are probably the least micro-able unit in the game. I'm going to experiment next with getting a raven for the PDD. I have a feeling it would be even more one-sided then, as ravens can stop roach fire, too. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On November 21 2010 00:42 Naftali wrote: ravens can stop roach fire, too. no they cant | ||
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Naftali
United States54 Posts
On November 21 2010 02:56 ChickenLips wrote: no they cant hmm. I stand corrected. I could have sworn I'd seen it work before, but I think that may have been patched out. I'd still consider a raven with HSM to use against mutas or banelings. | ||
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SCling
18 Posts
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Matalon
Israel9 Posts
On November 21 2010 03:39 Naftali wrote: hmm. I stand corrected. I could have sworn I'd seen it work before, but I think that may have been patched out. I'd still consider a raven with HSM to use against mutas or banelings. Adding a Raven in for the 2nd push (after pushing with 2~ thors) is a great idea, if only for clearing creep. Usually by then they have mutas or often times hydras (in response to banshees) in which case PDD is great to have as well. I wouldn't bother with HSM at this point in the game there are much better choices to spend gas on, more thors/banshees, tanks, stim, upgrades, depends on what the situation calls for. | ||
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