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How to treat zerg FE as a weakness as terran EDIT - Page 9

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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osten
Profile Joined March 2008
Sweden316 Posts
November 23 2010 13:24 GMT
#161
This build/strategy is horribly horribly good so why spice it up and lie again? The ladder system makes sure nobody has that kind of ratio.... The proof was and still is counteractive to your claim since it gets harder if you are higher ranked. You must lose 70% vs P or T in order for it to balance up.. I just.. Okay nevermind. Just take with you that I think the build is good. I am overfocusing on your extreme exaggeration. Sorry.
Doz
Profile Joined July 2010
United States145 Posts
November 23 2010 14:49 GMT
#162
On November 23 2010 18:10 osten wrote:
No, you don't have 85% against zerg, nobody does....


THIS

On November 23 2010 21:57 Pookie Monster wrote:

85% win ratio against zerg


Can easily result temporarily due to THIS

On November 23 2010 21:57 Pookie Monster wrote:

zergs ... playing ... dumb


Resulting in THIS

On November 23 2010 21:57 Pookie Monster wrote:

im much higher rank now


Eventually leading to THIS

On November 23 2010 21:57 Pookie Monster wrote:

a 65-70% win ratio against zerg.


It's called "rushing" (Think in terms of poker ) where you're winning many hands/games in a short period of time due to being in the zone, opponents playing poorly, a short term mathematical anomaly (luck), or a combination of all 3. It's how I went from a mid level gold to low level diamond in a week and a half (and I'm still only 31-23, Doz.553 if you want to look)

While it's true that after 1.1.2 the zerg became pretty reckless in their play, this is also a very solid build and is something close to what I've been trying to hammer out in the little bit I've been able to play. As more time goes by since release, I'm finding it more and more valuable to have more than 2-3 different types of units on the field, and this build is an excellent example of how to do so effectively. It's costly to open up so much of the available tech, but catching an opponent off guard with a strategy like this requires your opponent to mix up his own units just as much, something that takes time to do. I never feel so completely owned as when an opponent shows up at my base with almost every available unit for his race, really feels unstoppable no matter what my unit comp. is.
Check out my map thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=192306
Pookie Monster
Profile Joined October 2010
United States303 Posts
November 23 2010 15:18 GMT
#163
On November 23 2010 22:24 osten wrote:
This build/strategy is horribly horribly good so why spice it up and lie again? The ladder system makes sure nobody has that kind of ratio.... The proof was and still is counteractive to your claim since it gets harder if you are higher ranked. You must lose 70% vs P or T in order for it to balance up.. I just.. Okay nevermind. Just take with you that I think the build is good. I am overfocusing on your extreme exaggeration. Sorry.


haha i think your getting distracted by that, i prolly should remove that line as i no longer have that kind of win ratio now that im higher ranked than i was right after patch
??
Jengo
Profile Joined September 2010
United States15 Posts
November 23 2010 16:33 GMT
#164
I've been watching a crap load of the recent GSL3 games. Lots of terrans are kicking zergs butts this season.

They have ALL been using a 2 rax no gas opening before transitioning.

It would be pretty cool if we could figure out a way to incorporate the super early aggression of a 2 rax with a follow up double gas expand into drop banshee play with a thor timing push.

With that sort of opening you would also not need the reactor and you'd get the same sort of aggression as the hellion poke.

I'll try and work out some timings tonight.
HwangjaeTerran
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Finland5967 Posts
November 23 2010 16:42 GMT
#165
On October 27 2010 22:56 Pookie Monster wrote:
if u have foxer grade marine micro or he neglects to make a baneling nest this push is absolutely devastating and ends many, MANY of my terran vs Zerg games.



You have FoxeR marine micro.
Baller

I currently have a TvZ build I'm 10-1 with. The only loss was because of absolutely hilarious/epic fail.
But when I hit the level I start losing with it I'll definitely give this a chance although I've done fast one base drop tactics since NaDa showed them in a video years ago
https://steamcommunity.com/id/*tlusernamehere*/
Pookie Monster
Profile Joined October 2010
United States303 Posts
November 23 2010 21:47 GMT
#166
On November 24 2010 01:42 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2010 22:56 Pookie Monster wrote:
if u have foxer grade marine micro or he neglects to make a baneling nest this push is absolutely devastating and ends many, MANY of my terran vs Zerg games.



You have FoxeR marine micro.
Baller

I currently have a TvZ build I'm 10-1 with. The only loss was because of absolutely hilarious/epic fail.
But when I hit the level I start losing with it I'll definitely give this a chance although I've done fast one base drop tactics since NaDa showed them in a video years ago


are you not in diamond yet or low diamond?
??
jay236
Profile Joined August 2010
29 Posts
November 24 2010 20:21 GMT
#167
Hey, I just want to add feedback to this topic since it's helped my game versus 14 hatch a lot (as opposed to just using FoxeR style rushing).

Currently I'm a 1200+ Diamond Terran consistently beating 2200+ish Diamond Zergs with this strat.

http://www.mediafire.com/?2t5b5yhyqrf0qb8
http://www.mediafire.com/?d6l3uipvw7u1oii

Feedback is appreciated forthe replays. I believe the game on Lost Temple had a lot of miss-micro on my part.
Pookie Monster
Profile Joined October 2010
United States303 Posts
November 27 2010 01:36 GMT
#168
On November 25 2010 05:21 jay236 wrote:
Hey, I just want to add feedback to this topic since it's helped my game versus 14 hatch a lot (as opposed to just using FoxeR style rushing).

Currently I'm a 1200+ Diamond Terran consistently beating 2200+ish Diamond Zergs with this strat.

http://www.mediafire.com/?2t5b5yhyqrf0qb8
http://www.mediafire.com/?d6l3uipvw7u1oii

Feedback is appreciated forthe replays. I believe the game on Lost Temple had a lot of miss-micro on my part.



sorry i was away for thanksgiving or i would have replied sooner, your execution of my build is excellent, your dropship micro is very good, i typically go gas before barracks but if you find that this way works for you then thats good to, it just means your drop is later. in the lost temple game i think you pushed very late. if you pushed when you had your 2 thors you would have rolled him earlier and easier as all he had was a handful of lings and mutas and no baneling nest, luckily your rine micro forced him to waste all his banelings on your thors but be careful pushing that late as if he had got your marines instead the battle could have gone the other way. the shakuras one was spot on though and you kept the pressure up which is crucial, only thing i think you should improve on is getting your expo up sooner so you arent too far behind if the zerg handles your aggression better, other than that good Reps thanks for sharing keep squashing those bugs :o)
??
NadaSound
Profile Joined March 2010
United States227 Posts
November 27 2010 01:44 GMT
#169
Thank you sir I love the sound of it!
Komsa
Profile Joined November 2010
United States99 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-03 09:40:42
December 03 2010 09:23 GMT
#170
I like this strat a lot so far. The micro req' makes the strat' a little fragile in lag. Which sucks for me One thing I noticed is that when fighting roaches/lings it'ss best to keep ur marines behind the thors cuase they need to stay around for when mutas fly in. What are your thoughts on how the strategy progresses when the drop didn't go so well and zerg is able to marco? Rines dieing seems big for me right now.

Edit: Replay for ref: http://www.mediafire.com/?6nbh59ycna7isu8
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. -Woodrow Wilson
Pookie Monster
Profile Joined October 2010
United States303 Posts
December 03 2010 21:11 GMT
#171
On December 03 2010 18:23 Komsa wrote:
I like this strat a lot so far. The micro req' makes the strat' a little fragile in lag. Which sucks for me One thing I noticed is that when fighting roaches/lings it'ss best to keep ur marines behind the thors cuase they need to stay around for when mutas fly in. What are your thoughts on how the strategy progresses when the drop didn't go so well and zerg is able to marco? Rines dieing seems big for me right now.

Edit: Replay for ref: http://www.mediafire.com/?6nbh59ycna7isu8



your not doing my build correctly at all, you should re watch my replays to get the timing and build order down better
??
Mcrat
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia30 Posts
December 07 2010 12:50 GMT
#172
Ok after not laddering for the past 3 weeks I thought this would be the build I base my TvZ on and it's working pretty well for me. Played 5 games so far against zerg and am 3/2 with it. Both my losses were to high diamonds (1.8 and 2k from memory) and my macro realllly sucking due to lack of 1v1 play.

I'm low diamond (480ish ) so my micro/macro isn't the greatest but as I'm playing the build more and getting more comfortable with it I'm really finding it's a lot of fun (and can see my being more successful with it as I keep practicing).

This is my latest game with it against a high Plat player and the replay really shows the power of that early drop and how bad it can affect their game.

http://www.mediafire.com/?qhrc9b7es59ygzk

Rewatching it I slightly messed up some timings and could have taken out the overlord on my natural ledge, but overall I think it's pretty good.

Just wanted to say thanks for the awesome build
"Paper is OP. Scissors are fine." - Rock
MasterFischer
Profile Joined August 2009
Denmark836 Posts
December 07 2010 13:22 GMT
#173
How does this build do now that scvs are owned on PTR?

Lings and banelings will fkin annhilate thors + scvs now..

bainshees get cut open by queens and spores + hydra..


What do you do when he has mass ling/baneling and muta against ur stuff?

Marines melt, scvs melt, thors cantr do shit against mass lings, in comes maybe also muta and roaches to clean up..

and gg ;D?


suggestionS?
WHO is this who speaks to me as though I needed his advice?
Pookie Monster
Profile Joined October 2010
United States303 Posts
December 09 2010 09:48 GMT
#174
On December 07 2010 22:22 MasterFischer wrote:
How does this build do now that scvs are owned on PTR?

Lings and banelings will fkin annhilate thors + scvs now..

bainshees get cut open by queens and spores + hydra..


What do you do when he has mass ling/baneling and muta against ur stuff?

Marines melt, scvs melt, thors cantr do shit against mass lings, in comes maybe also muta and roaches to clean up..

and gg ;D?


suggestionS?


i have some great games recently to show how badly you need preignitor hellions after your first push for this build to be effective i dont have time to post now gotta go to work but look for them later
??
Pookie Monster
Profile Joined October 2010
United States303 Posts
December 09 2010 22:41 GMT
#175
added a few more reps prolly add more later
??
vahgar.r24
Profile Joined October 2010
India465 Posts
January 05 2011 18:57 GMT
#176
Very interesting..will try this!
Somethings are just worth fighting for
Broodie
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Canada832 Posts
January 06 2011 18:13 GMT
#177
this thread will allow me to insert my penis into my friends mouth

kudos ill try these tonight as ive been having troubles tvz

maybe cause of no thors or banshees

if We are at a standpoint (unit trade offs no base pressure vulnerable) should I switch tech a lot?

I usually feel as if I carry through a general composition and keep making that compo.

it kills meeeh
SilentLiquid.Broodie - Author of Tango Terminal, Ophilia RE, Cajun Quandary, & The Beneath
xciLe
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway213 Posts
January 06 2011 21:51 GMT
#178
fast banshee with bunker defence realy works for me
and if that doesnt kill them. pump marauders if they go roach. and marines if zerglings
Protoss OP
k!llua
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Australia895 Posts
January 17 2011 21:23 GMT
#179
On January 07 2011 03:13 Broodie wrote:
this thread will allow me to insert my penis into my friends mouth


god praise the internet
my hair is a wookie, your argument is invalid
berimbau
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia22 Posts
January 21 2011 02:23 GMT
#180
So this build is pretty sweet. I'm 2300 diamond and this is my standard tvz strat and has been for ages, and wins me heaps of tvz games as well. Thanks for the build Pookie
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