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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
On October 27 2010 16:10 sodoff wrote: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-160979.jpg) You can use the mule before you lift off the orbital 5+ idle scvs Need less energy on orbitals ( 200 all game ) or scan get building armor for the turrets that time when you just landed the orbital, that bunker seems to be in the way somehow | ||
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endder07
United States42 Posts
I am now 3-0 with this build, and will update soon enough | ||
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johanngrunt
Hong Kong1555 Posts
Ret vs Bratok. Won't spoil it for you if you haven't watched it, but Bratok used this build and showed some interesting transitions out of it. | ||
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On October 27 2010 13:33 BigMEAT wrote: a scout + spine crawlers will deny the initial push which puts you behind they will spine crawler up and mass banelings and continue to expand. ravens are effective but they run out of energy too easily. baneling speed and zergling speed will make this opening weak if they prepare for it. i dont know who you have been playing against? keeping a scout in there base, you could pull this off but that is tough to do <---- 1900 diamond terran. I play against 1300-1500 Diamond players myself. But then again I only player maybe 3-4 hours a day. I disagree with you. It doesn't sound like you have done this style of play. An early counter to this strategy is any counter to a FE and mass marine. To get enough blings early on to kill it requires a pretty big commitment. :-\ This isn't a one base timing attack or an opening, it is a midgame style off +2 bases with a fairly large timing window when zerg gets his third up an a smaller poke window when his nat pops. I dunno, maybe zergs have better expo timings up there in 1900? Maybe that's why so few people that are 1750+ have posted :-\ Would be nice if more high level players chimed in. I mean, can you elaborate? The initial push with 20 marines is designed to force the zerg to make units and spines to not die. If he does spine up, you can go for drops and you are ahead if he masses a ridiculous amount of banelings. @Bratok vs Ret. It is a similar unit composition but he was not very aggressive early on. You really need the upgraded marines off 4-5 rax rather than something gimmicky like a fast banshee. I think I think you could maybe do that but Bratok has no army and unupgraded marines when the first mutas popped. By that time, I usually have 20-30 CS +1 marines and both my starports going down. I mean I'm sure he had a good gameplan but it wasn't the same one I described here. @Income, sorry that should be 600 min/minute and about 250 gas/minute off 1 base. | ||
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Praxis1452
41 Posts
Do you continue to push out at every 20 marines, or do you wait for a larger force and time it so that you will attack as they take their third? Also, what is usual timing of attacking against the third? | ||
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metaldragon
United States251 Posts
Clear Creep and hit the 3rd... Make more than 6 raxes also after your natural has been up.. I Still see people floating 3k minerals some games. | ||
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micjmac
42 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
The OP explain it well, it's good on a fondamental strategic pov because it force the zerg to use larvas and gaz to kill your 10 rax mineral only marines. That's why the raven marine is a good, solid strategy, it has the marine component. The other units could be raven,, tanks, or even mass medivacs. In the GSL game, the terran used all his gaz on medivacs, and boy, I never seen so much medivacs in a game, he had like 8+ of them relativly early in the game, just because all his gaz went to them.And his marines and marauders seemed imortals =) The first game can be found here (SPOILER WARNING : be careful, sometime people will spoil the game in the comments under the video) http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1238 You have to register (for free) to watch the first game, but you have to buy a premium account to see the second/third game. But I guess you can find them too for free on sites like http://sc2.plu.cn/ | ||
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micjmac
42 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
1 game vs Just - ladder game, I was 2050 3 games vs Gerbil - ~2k diamond zerg 3 games vs logix - 1670 diamond zerg w/ 100 bonus pool (so probably around 1750-1800 zerg) http://www.mediafire.com/?cho7regecq8wp5y | ||
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Fission
Canada1184 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On October 28 2010 07:11 Pokebunny wrote: 6 customs and 1 ladder game vs various players 1 game vs Just - ladder game, I was 2050 3 games vs Gerbil - ~2k diamond zerg 3 games vs logix - 1670 diamond zerg w/ 100 bonus pool (so probably around 1750-1800 zerg) http://www.mediafire.com/?cho7regecq8wp5y Thanks for the reps :D I'll link in the OP after I get to watch them. In other news KME gave me 3 more reps  I think now you can do CC before 2nd depot on maps where you don't need an immediate wall with his build. I think its a lot stronger than I gave it credit for on medium - bigger map. You can easily wall off with the CC and morph OC like TLO's beta FE and then use your second rax to wall behind your depot. I think you can hold off a RR fairly easily with just a bunker and even the most dedicated Baneling busts. | ||
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sodoff
Niger14 Posts
On October 27 2010 19:09 johanngrunt wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq3yXHKz_AM&feature=youtube_gdata http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Iq0PbTkVg&feature=youtube_gdata Ret vs Bratok. Won't spoil it for you if you haven't watched it, but Bratok used this build and showed some interesting transitions out of it. This is not at all the same build, he opened with 1/1/1, got hellions and a banshee, and got medivacs first. he also made alot of marauders | ||
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n3mo
United States298 Posts
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sodoff
Niger14 Posts
On October 28 2010 08:32 n3mo wrote: sodoff, the idea is not so much the build as the idea. and its not like you HAVE to keep making marines; you scale your army with the opponents army. the idea is still there, of having largely marine and raven, which he can lose huge armies of and still come out ahead. if you notice, he started getting marauders rather late in the game to deal with the huge numbers of banelings and ultras on the map. yeah well i cant criticize bratoks play, this guy is a beast. he probably knows tvz better than we do in this thread. but, his opening was so different and midgame play was so different its hard to say its the same build. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On October 28 2010 08:37 sodoff wrote: yeah well i cant criticize bratoks play, this guy is a beast. he probably knows tvz better than we do in this thread. but, his opening was so different and midgame play was so different its hard to say its the same build. @Hellions - Yes they may be a good edition if Zerg tries to some sort of mass speedling game. Maybe decent against hydras but I don't see them making up much of the army. They get demolished by blings slightly less bad than marines but they aren't as versatile. However they would be great for harass if zerg does manage to get his 3/4th up. The smaller army sizes really favor dropping. @Bratok vs Ret - Like I said, I think he was going for something more standard (Harass into some sort of MMM) into a marine/raven comp so its not a good example of this sort of overall gameplan. Personal Aside: I know 1-1-1 harass type openings are somewhat standard but it feels like playing as fantasy with his typical mass vulture into either fatally cripple the opponent or totally fail at harass and die. I really don't like fantasy's play style much so it makes me feel dirty when I do some sot of 1-1-1 harass. :-p | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On October 28 2010 08:22 Antisocialmunky wrote: Thanks for the reps :D I'll link in the OP after I get to watch them. In other news KME gave me 3 more reps I think now you can do CC before 2nd depot on maps where you don't need an immediate wall with his build. I think its a lot stronger than I gave it credit for on medium - bigger map. You can easily wall off with the CC and morph OC like TLO's beta FE and then use your second rax to wall behind your depot. I think you can hold off a RR fairly easily with just a bunker and even the most dedicated Baneling busts. They're all KME version on iccup maps or cross spots, btw. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On October 28 2010 08:22 Antisocialmunky wrote: Thanks for the reps :D I'll link in the OP after I get to watch them. In other news KME gave me 3 more reps I think now you can do CC before 2nd depot on maps where you don't need an immediate wall with his build. I think its a lot stronger than I gave it credit for on medium - bigger map. You can easily wall off with the CC and morph OC like TLO's beta FE and then use your second rax to wall behind your depot. I think you can hold off a RR fairly easily with just a bunker and even the most dedicated Baneling busts. ho yeah keep the rep coming please, love them. | ||
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dandelion
6 Posts
I'm including a few replays for those interested. Nothing special, both in platinum, but it shows the general idea. TvZ on Blistering Sands TvZ on Shakuraz Plaueau Not looking for feedback, I do notice lots of mistakes. Thanks anyway | ||
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