[G] 7RR - you're doing it wrong - Page 5

On November 09 2010 08:52 IPA wrote:
The title of this thread is like nails on a chalkboard to me, as is the OP's attitude.

On November 09 2010 09:49 mlbrandow wrote:


Same here, especially when the counter he posted isn't even the most efficient 7RR.

And the logic used here is:

Make your Roaches rush later and you'll have more money.

to the OP:
I'll give you that the build is better than the first one you posted, but it sounds more like you've been screwing up the original build, and discovered a better way than the one you were doing before (which still isn't that good).

The point of the regular 7RR is not to win outright (bully if you do) but to give yourself a tremendous advantage and fast expand as soon as the roaches are leaving your base.

How can this be possible if the regular 7RR build leaves you 0min/gas when you finish? The answer is that you were building this incorrectly. Especially since you can't/didn't provide any links.



Here is the build order I came up with using evo-chamber that I like a lot. It is a macro-transition 7RR that comes out a full 20 seconds before the one you posted:

+ Show Spoiler +

Three things this does better than your proposed build:
1) This build gets more drones than yours, and faster.
2) You lay down a hatch as soon as your Roaches leave the base, using all your extra minerals, rather than having an extra 142 gas sitting there for some unknown, unusable purpose (unless you're all-in, a poor idea if you're still mining, queen isn't otw to opponent's ramp since injection, etc).
3) you get 7 Roaches 20 seconds sooner.

On November 09 2010 11:08 Subversion wrote:
is this build any better than this one:

10/10 Overlord
extractor trick
11 pool
10-15 drone
15 extractor (3 drones on gas asap)
14 drone
15 drone
16 queen
18/18 overlord
18/18 overlord
18 roach warren
17-29 roach

also from the evo chamber thing. seems to be decent, u can drop an expo as u move out and tech to lair if u want

On November 13 2010 11:50 Daray wrote:
What is the point of denying scouting? If they see early gas they will 99% of the time assume roach rush in todays meta game. As protoss player i always throw down super fast robo and chrono immortal and that rush is fended off easily.

On November 13 2010 20:09 mlbrandow wrote:


First, your statement about early gas is entirely dependent on whether that gas was put down before or after the pool. If it's after, then it's probably roaches I agree, but before is almost always speedling.


A well-timed 2-gate robo with immortal chrono should see immo at ~5:45 with maybe 3-4 gateway units. The issue here is that on most maps, you're going to be attacked around 5:20-30. This means your gateway units will either be dead, or your workers will be heroically dying. If we're assuming players of roughly equal micro skill, you're most likely looking at your immo being solo vs. 5 or 6 roaches. And he's going to get roasted with only taking one down.

Now, a lot of 7RR come later because of poor execution and other reasons, but immo tech is not a reliable counter to properly executed 7RR in my opinion. It simply won't be out in time to beat the roaches wreaking havoc in your base.


Lastly, there is a very popular new build that involves 5RR+6speedling at the same time (~5:20-30) and if the first attack swaps armies, a simple switch to speedlings would probably put you at a large disadvantage.


I feel like the best, most reliable P counter to 7RR is simply make 2-3 cannons while getting gateway units, or going chrono 4-gate with a later wg (so you're producing units out of gates and time wg to finish after the roach push.)


TL;DR - I don't think many people would agree with you that chrono immortal rush is a reliable counter to 7RR timing.

On September 16 2012 16:10 Amaroq64 wrote:
I hope what I'm posting is good enough to justify resurrecting this thread. If not, just delete my post and yell at me.

A friend of mine taught me a seven roach rush that I've been using to great effect. I'm in Gold, so maybe this won't work in higher leagues, but here it is. If I can remember how it goes...

You do a standard 9 overlord, 14-gas 14-pool. Get the queen and start ling speed as soon as pool finishes. Basically like a normal economical speedling opening. Get an overlord as soon as you hit 16 supply. Starting the queen should push it to 18 supply.

Drone to 21 supply. When the queen is about 2/3 done, drop the roach warren. This brings you back down to 20 supply. Get an overloard asap. Inject asap. Don't build anymore drones or any lings yet.

The larva inject should pop off as soon as the roach warren finishes. Inject asap and build all seven roaches. If it gets timed right, you should have just enough larva and resources to do it.

Build one overlord asap while the roaches are building.

By now, you should've scouted your opponent's location with a drone. Rally your roaches to their base so they get going the instant they hatch.

Now, the next batch of larva, make it all into zerglings. Rally the zerglings to your opponent's base as well.

Your roaches will be at least halfway to your opponent's base by the time the lings hatch. Since you got zergling speed, the lings will catch up to the roaches very quickly. This should allow you to hit with seven roaches AND a bunch of speedlings at the same time. And after you start the speedlings building, you should quickly have enough money to expand. And if they were going something greedy or they just plain weren't ready, you'll probably kill them or cripple their greed opening.

I normally don't do this rush against T or Z. But since P is my worst matchup, I'm going to be doing this against them whenever they forge fast expand. The speedlings can be a meat shield while I bust a hole in their wall, then I just run in and wreak havok. Usually I just go 15 hatch vs T. But in ZvZ, if I do a 14-gas 14-pool and I see that they did a 15-hatch or something else that's ridiculously greedy for ZvZ, I'll do this rush to punish them for it.

EDIT: I also don't understand all the hubbub about denying scouting. If you're Zerg vs non-Zerg, you should be getting your hatch pretty quick. 15 hatch vs Terran, and vs Toss even if you don't 15 hatch you can do your hatch right after pool for a safer fast expand. Roach rush delays your hatch at least until after you've started your roaches. They're going to know something is up the instant they see that you're on one base when you should've had a hatch by then. If you're Zerg vs Zerg, you probably shouldn't be roach rushing unless you see them doing something ridiculously greedy, like 15 hatch, because a ling rush will kill you before you get your roaches.

On September 17 2012 06:14 Rimak wrote:
Well as a P i must say that 7RR is actually really easy to hold.
It's just based on scouting.

A 14 gas is just such a rare thing and just yells to you "this is not current standard play, he will be aggressive 80%", so this will just force more cannons and additional scouting.

And after 7 RR fails P is just in such an awesome position for 7gate allin, or exp.

Though I agree, that Leenocks hatch cancel is really tricky.