[G] Build order timing calculator - Page 7

Haploid

Netherlands89 Posts

October 28 2010 18:26 GMT

#121

On October 29 2010 02:14 Bitters wrote:
producing hatcheries not spawning larvae error?

Lazy hatcheries. The Queens were probably on strike. I sacked the scorpion thing that lives inside the hatchery and installed new management to remedy this situation.

New version includes commands for the extractor trick:
10 Extractor Trick
10 Double Extractor Trick

Phrencys

Canada270 Posts

October 28 2010 18:47 GMT

#122

Fantastic job Haploid, I've been wasting way too much time playing around with your app lately.

If I had only one request, it would be to be able to generate a BO that has errors at least up to the point at which it fails. For example, when it tells "Not enough supply for Probe" and doesn't generate any build order, it's hard to figure which line is in problem and where you need to add that pylon to fix it.

It's far from unmanageable, but it would be a nice to have.

Keep up the good work man!

Edit: Oh and a nice feature that was mentioned previously would be a way to tell a building to constantly build something until told otherwise.

Ex:

00 SCV++
00 Barracks > Tech Lab to Barracks > Marauder++
00 Barracks > Reactor on Barracks > Marine++

This way you could put buildings on autopilot and just plug in additional facilities / supplies where needed. That would make it much more easier to answer questions like "when can I make my Robotics Facility if I want to constantly build Stalkers from 1 gate?".

wardou

France54 Posts

October 29 2010 12:31 GMT

#123

http://haploid.nl/sc2/build_order/ doesnt work " Error 404 "

icezar

Germany240 Posts

October 30 2010 14:56 GMT

#124

thanks for all the fixes, the site is very useful. Can you please make a way so the queens will auto inject? currently i loose a lot of time trying to find when it should inject.
I did try
Queen > spawn larvae > spawn larvae > spawn larvae ....
but that does not work well at all :-(

Thanks!

Tsabo

Russian Federation266 Posts

October 31 2010 18:15 GMT

#125

Hey, thanks for the great tool.

There seems to be several errors with the Inject logic.

1) A Hatch can be injected into several times at the same time, if the queens have enough energy resultin in huge larva boosts:

Here is a build order to replicate the bug:

9 Overlord
14 Spawning Pool
15 Overlord
15 Queen
17 Queen
19 Overlord
19 Overlord
19 Overlord
19 Overlord
19 Overlord
19 Overlord
20 Spawn Larvae
20 Spawn Larvae
20 Spawn Larvae
5:00 Checkpoint
5:30 Checkpoint

2) When on more then 1 base all the injects stack up on to one Hatchery, resulting in a small loss of larvae that whould come from the hatches automaticly.

Here is a build order to replicate the bug:

9 Overlord
14 Hatchery
14 Spawning Pool
15 Overlord
19 Queen
21 Queen
23 Spawn Larvae
23 Spawn Larvae
4:59 Checkpoint
5:00 Checkpoint
5:03 Checkpoint
5:04 Checkpoint
23 Spawn Larvae
23 Spawn Larvae
5:40 Checkpoint
5:45 Checkpoint
5:50 Checkpoint

P.S.
Queen > Spawn Larvae > Spawn Larvae > Spawn Larvae > Spawn Larvae > Spawn Larvae ...
Works on 1 and 2 base ( have not tested more) with the bugs I reporeted in my post.

kunnis

Finland1 Post

October 31 2010 20:29 GMT

#126

Hi there!

Great calculator! I have couple questions/comments:
1. Would it be possible to add energy as trigger? for example @25 energy spawn larvae
2. Can you transfer queen from base to base? for example, 18 Queen > transfer queen
- it seems that second base will never get spawn larvas.
3. Would it be possible to add drone/worker count?

Many thanks for the current version!

Daelone

United States14 Posts

October 31 2010 20:46 GMT

#127

This would be an awesome phone app!

We could test on the go, and share with the people around us, very cool man thanks for sharing!

shingbi

58 Posts

November 01 2010 13:25 GMT

#128

This is really awesome. Thanks!

Another vote for a way to constantly produce units from a structure. I'd prefer syntax like:

8 constant Probe
13 Gateway > constant Zealot

That would also allow you to skip some numbers. For instance if I write:

9 Pylon
10 constant Probe**
Gateway
Assimilator > +3
Cybernetics Core
Pylon

Given that I'm constantly producing Probes, it should be possible to calculate when the other buildings will/can go down.

Other features that would be cool:

Being able to save a build/timing and then input another build, so you can easily compare two builds.

Have a checkmark that will highlight whenever your Nexus is not producing probes in the timings table.

A little checkbox that (if enabled) will automatically adjust all following numbers if I change something at the start. For instance if I have this somewhere in my build:

18 Transform to Warpgate [4]
18 Stalker
20 Stalker
22 Zealot
24 Zealot

And I change the first Stalker to 19, it should automatically +1 all other units that follow.

Amadi

Finland139 Posts

November 01 2010 22:27 GMT

#129

I believe that this thing should be able to do extractor tricks for things other than a Drone - Say roach. Also, adding a worker on gas that has been built already. Here's what I'm trying to accomplish.

10 Spawning Pool
10 Double Extractor Trick
12 Extractor > +2
11 Overlord
12 Roach Warren
11 Roach[3]
17 Extractor Trick for Roach, Move worker to already active extractor.
19 Overlord
19 Roach[3]

icezar

Germany240 Posts

November 02 2010 09:00 GMT

#130

Hi,

This has improved so much that i got another error :-))

"Supply count has risen to greater than 99."

I do want to build more that 99 supply :-D

Also this strange one:
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 1 second exceeded in /home/vhosting/o/vhost0009715/domains/haploid.nl/htdocs/www/sc2/build_order/income.php on line 50

Edit:
and a larva problem:
10 spawning Pool
10 Overlord
13 Extractor > put 3 on gas
12 Roach Warren
11 Overlord
11 Roach [6]
23 put 1 on minerals
23 Roach [1]

at
16 3:09 3:36 15 / 26 0 Roach 0 14
17 3:22 3:49 17 / 26 0 Roach 0 14
larva pops after only 13 sec. there is no queen no extra hatch in this build.

ShadowDrgn

United States2497 Posts

November 03 2010 22:15 GMT

#131

The link provided in "Copy link to this build to share with friends." seems to toggle strict mode. Specially, &strictMode in the URL actually turns strict mode off and not on.

KingKiron

36 Posts

November 04 2010 19:48 GMT

#132

It doesnt seem to be working right now

Fatal error: Call to undefined method IncomeSlots::mineralTiming() in /home/vhosting/o/vhost0009715/domains/haploid.nl/htdocs/www/sc2/build_order/update.php on line 182

Phrencys

Canada270 Posts

November 04 2010 20:07 GMT

#133

Hi again Haploid,

Your site is awesome, thanks again for sharing this! If there was only one aspect I could see improved, it's the queuing behavior.

I might be misinterpreting the scope of your application, but right now, I like to use it by giving it as broad parameters as possible hoping to have it sort stuff out for me, then I take the actual BO from the timers grid.

Here are examples of what I would like to be able to do:
1) 12 Barracks > Tech Lab on Barracks > Stimpack & Marine
Right now it queues the marine only after Stimpack is done (working from memory here, can't verify because the tool is currently not working). What I'd like it to do is instead of hanging the build until Stimpack is started or done, make it start the research and marine production as soon as resources permit.

2a) 12 Barracks > Tech Lab on Barracks > Marauder[+] > @100 min/100gas Stimpack
This could be the syntax used to queue a Tech Lab then a constant queue of Marauders from this barracks once it finishes. Also, it could research stims as soon as it has 100/100 available.

2b) 12 Barracks > Marine[+] > Factory > Reactor on Barracks > Swap Reactor on Barracks to Factory > Hellions[+]
This is getting more complicated, but I think you get the idea.

3) 16 Queen > Spawn Larvae[+]
This one could be a way to dedicate this queen to inject on cooldown when it spawns.

4) A way to toggle when you want the application to prioritize probes. Obviously mutually exclusive with the Strict Mode option. Would be cool to see it in a command line so you could specify an interval of supply where you want to make sure to not miss any probe. So if you make Probe[10-30] the application makes sure to manage supply / minerals to force making probes every 17sec until you reach 30 supply.

Those would certainly be nice to have, although it's not a big deal to manually time each doing trial and error. I guess having this kind of tool just make me even more lazy.

Thanks one more time for your work, and I hope you get the site working soon as I do have BOs to optimize!

hox

United States59 Posts

November 04 2010 22:42 GMT

#134

Love the work! Can I ask what the backend of your site looks like? (I'm wondering if it's all in PHP =) )

jdelator

United States89 Posts

November 05 2010 07:21 GMT

#135

Are you updating the site? You may have forgetten to add a file. There's undefined function right now. IncomeSlots::mineralTiming()

Kampflebkuchen

Germany1 Post

November 05 2010 08:21 GMT

#136

Yes, I agree with jdelator, I get the same error :

Fatal error: Call to undefined method IncomeSlots::mineralTiming() in /home/vhosting/o/vhost0009715/domains/haploid.nl/htdocs/www/sc2/build_order/update.php on line 182

I have to say your Idea for this page is quite brilliant! Thanks!

Haploid

Netherlands89 Posts

November 05 2010 09:20 GMT

#137

On November 05 2010 17:21 Kampflebkuchen wrote:
Yes, I agree with jdelator, I get the same error :

Show nested quote +

Oops, I accidentally changed the live version, instead of the development version. Fixed that now, and the larva error message as well.

I'm working on a new version of the scheduler that is better at fitting in recurring jobs, such as 12 Barracks > Marine[7]. It shouldn't be more than a day or two until I've completed it, and another day or so to run some test build orders and figure out what I may have overlooked. I'll definitely try the build orders that you guys have posted so far, since a lot of them contain elements that are easy to overlook otherwise.

icezar, I'll test your build orders on the new scheduler, and I'll get back to you with the results.

On November 01 2010 03:15 Tsabo wrote:
There seems to be several errors with the Inject logic.

I know, and most of those have to do with the old scheduler, which would attempt to push jobs as far back in the past as they can be. I'll check in the new version if it does those things you reported right now.

On November 01 2010 05:29 kunnis wrote:
Hi there!

Great calculator! I have couple questions/comments:
1. Would it be possible to add energy as trigger? for example @25 energy spawn larvae
2. Can you transfer queen from base to base? for example, 18 Queen > transfer queen
- it seems that second base will never get spawn larvas.
3. Would it be possible to add drone/worker count?

Many thanks for the current version!

1. I'll think about it. This is actually very similar to just writing: 15 Queen > Spawn Larvae. That will actually schedule the Spawn Larvae job as soon as possible, which is right when you hit 25 energy.
2. As it is now (ignoring bugs), it will vomit on whichever Hatchery has no vomit on it already, and the calculator ignores travel times between Hatcheries for everything except a direct probe transfer. I'm not sure that I want to open this hornet's nest quite yet.

3. Yeah, I'm sure I can do that.

On November 01 2010 22:25 shingbi wrote:
Another vote for a way to constantly produce units from a structure. I'd prefer syntax like:
8 constant Probe
13 Gateway > constant Zealot

Being able to save a build/timing and then input another build, so you can easily compare two builds.

Have a checkmark that will highlight whenever your Nexus is not producing probes in the timings table.

A little checkbox that (if enabled) will automatically adjust all following numbers if I change something at the start. For instance if I have this somewhere in my build:

Constant unit production is part of the new scheduler, so just wait a bit for that. Saving build timings, I'm sure I can do that, but it's not high on the todo-list yet. Notification whenever a probe is not produced directly after the last probe, shouldn't be too hard.

And finally, some logic in javascript that updates the supply count automatically when you change the supply count of a preceeding job; I don't think I'll go there any time soon. The javascript would need to be able to parse the build order, and it requires quite a bit of code to do just that. Some sort of smart editor that does syntax highlighting, spellchecking, and such, is at the very bottom of my want-list, mostly because it is a LOT of work.

On November 02 2010 07:27 Amadi wrote:
I believe that this thing should be able to do extractor tricks for things other than a Drone - Say roach. Also, adding a worker on gas that has been built already. Here's what I'm trying to accomplish.

Good point, I'll add that to the todo-list.

On November 04 2010 07:15 ShadowDrgn wrote:
The link provided in "Copy link to this build to share with friends." seems to toggle strict mode. Specially, &strictMode in the URL actually turns strict mode off and not on.

Hehe, that's just silly.

Strict mode is obsolete in the next version of the scheduler.

On November 05 2010 07:42 Ema wrote:
Love the work! Can I ask what the backend of your site looks like? (I'm wondering if it's all in PHP =) )

Yes, all in PHP5, and I like object-oriented programming, so the project consists almost entirely of classes.

On November 05 2010 05:07 Phrencys wrote:
Your site is awesome, thanks again for sharing this! If there was only one aspect I could see improved, it's the queuing behavior.

I might be misinterpreting the scope of your application, but right now, I like to use it by giving it as broad parameters as possible hoping to have it sort stuff out for me, then I take the actual BO from the timers grid.

I believe the new scheduler should handle all your examples in a manner that one would expect. It is not my intention to have the calculator find the optimal order of the jobs in a build order, merely to follow the order that the user has layed out. However, in some human-readable build orders, such as:
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks > Marine [5]
14 Refinery
There are clearly choices to be made as to when it will schedule the Marines. Definitely not before the Refinery, because that can be started before the Barracks is even finished. The logic of where it should place the Marines in the build order is somewhat complex, and I'll post it when I've finished the new scheduler.

Phrencys

Canada270 Posts

November 05 2010 13:21 GMT

#138

On November 05 2010 18:20 Haploid wrote:

Show nested quote +

What I mean is that if you submit the above BO, the scheduler will stop making SCVs once the barracks starts, and until its done making the 5 marines, meaning that you have to manually stick SCVs in the BO to have them made while there is more than enough supply and minerals to make them, which is rather cumbersome considering they build every 17seconds.

The intuition I get when I type 12 Barracks > Marine[5] is that it should continue making SCVs up to 14 Refinery, and then alternate SCVs/Marines once the Barracks is done as long as resources/supply allow it.

Basically, I would expect it to have a similar behavior to:
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks
14 Refinery
15 Marine
16 Supply Depot
18 Marine
20 Marine
(etc)

I think what I'm trying to say is that there could be a way to make it consider queues as a separate/parallel branch or something that is merged with the main trunk as it progresses. That way you could make something like "12 Barracks > Marine[2] > Reactor on Barracks > Marine[20]" to be integrated into the main BO while you keep working on your refinery, scvs, orbital command, etc. The problem lies in merging all those branches correctly and I understand it could be quite tricky. Like I said: the better you tool becomes, the lazier I get.

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

November 05 2010 13:43 GMT

#139

Wow, this is really useful. This actually may help me get my dark templar push running earlier than before (program says DTs warping in at 6:58, when usually I get them around 7:50. Shaving that extra minute off my time could really help with the standard terran 3rax.
Here is the what I wrote if you want to check it out:

#Startup mining delay = 3 seconds
9 Pylon (send @75 minerals)
10 Probe*
12 Gateway & Scout
12 Probe*
14 Assimilator > +3
15 Pylon
16 Zealot*
18 Cybernetics Core > Warpgate***
19 Assimilator > +3
21 Stalker
23 Pylon
24 Gateway
24 Twilight Council
25 Pylon
25 Gateway
27 Dark Shrine
27 Transform to Warpgate[2]
29 Transform to Warpgate[1]
32 Dark Templar [3]
38 Nexus

Phrencys

Canada270 Posts

November 05 2010 14:30 GMT

#140

On November 05 2010 22:43 57 Corvette wrote:
Wow, this is really useful. This actually may help me get my dark templar push running earlier than before (program says DTs warping in at 6:58, when usually I get them around 7:50. Shaving that extra minute off my time could really help with the standard terran 3rax.
Here is the what I wrote if you want to check it out:
+ Show Spoiler +

#Startup mining delay = 3 seconds
9 Pylon (send @75 minerals)
10 Probe*
12 Gateway & Scout
12 Probe*
14 Assimilator > +3
15 Pylon
16 Zealot*
18 Cybernetics Core > Warpgate***
19 Assimilator > +3
21 Stalker
23 Pylon
24 Gateway
24 Twilight Council
25 Pylon
25 Gateway
27 Dark Shrine
27 Transform to Warpgate[2]
29 Transform to Warpgate[1]
32 Dark Templar [3]
38 Nexus

You can save another 20sec by swapping the last gateway with the Dark Shrine and then making the DTs at 30 supply, FYI.

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