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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
I'll see what I can do about that delay. In this situation, it doesn't make sense for the calculator to wait until the Queen has finished, since the Spawn Larvae job in no way interferes with the next scheduled job. I can fix this. In the meantime, you could write: 20 Queen 24 Spawn Larvae 26 Overlord That'll allow drone production to continue. Wow, the other two races were so much simpler.  | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
Sorry for all the noob questions, i know i am too lazy to carefully read your site but also your thread is too short :-D Awesome site you have there!!! It will be nice to see it integrate with http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160231 also. This is what i do now try to find flows in computed BOs :-D | ||
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Logo2010
509 Posts
One question, how to you tell it to for example make rax eg. 12 Barracks > Marine then continuously make marines until whatever. | ||
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Pitsot
Russian Federation20 Posts
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
For: 10 Spawning Pool (send @100 minerals) 10 Extractor 10 Overlord 10 Roach Warren 10 put 3 on gas 11 Overlord @58 gas take 1 off gas 11 Roach [7] 9 2:10 3:05 10 / 18 3 Roach Warren 44 0 - not build soon enough there are 44 min left 11 2:11 2:28 9 / 18 2 Drone -2 2 -can i build on credit? :-) | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On October 25 2010 06:16 icezar wrote: Can we do extractor trick in this? It will be nice to see it integrate with http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160231 also. Extractor trick is on the top of my todo-list, but I'm very busy with work today, so expect it probably tonight (European night). I absolutely love that build optimizer; it's so much fun to watch it do its magic.  On October 25 2010 11:58 Logo2010 wrote: One question, how to you tell it to for example make rax eg. 12 Barracks > Marine then continuously make marines until whatever. It's not possible in the current syntax yet, but you can do something like that by throwing some marines around in your build order. Right now, it only uses SCV's to fill up any supply gaps in your build order, but maybe I could make it so that it could choose intelligently between building a Marine or an SCV, based on some priority. I'll think about it. On October 25 2010 16:59 icezar wrote: 9 2:10 3:05 10 / 18 3 Roach Warren 44 0 - not build soon enough there are 44 min left 11 2:11 2:28 9 / 18 2 Drone -2 2 -can i build on credit? :-) The Roach Warren is delayed because it is waiting for the Spawning Pool to finish, so that's correct. The negative minerals are due to rounding errors in the timing when it compiles the final report. It doesn't actually impact the timing, just the way it's reported. I will fix that. | ||
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RickOrShay
New Zealand132 Posts
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Bitters
Canada303 Posts
14 Hatchery > Queen > Spawn Larvae 14 Spawning Pool > Queen > Spawn Larvae 16 Overlord It's saying it is no longer solvable since it exceeds the supply count (although changing to 15 Overlord works, yet my food is never over 17 then). Doesn't make sense that I can make an overlord at 15 only instead of 16. Objective of above is to go 14h/14p, getting a queen at main when pool finishes and a queen at second hatch when its complete, having each queen spawn larvae immediately when they are finished. Edit: Yea, it seems there are lots of issues with supply constraints still. And orders are getting messed up. 9 Overlord 15 Hatchery > Queen > Spawn Larvae 14 Spawning Pool > Queen > Spawn Larvae 15 Overlord 18 Extractor > +3 Yet what comes out is a 14 gas, it stops drone production waiting for pools to finish before making queens (instead of droning to 15 for overlord and making queens when ready) | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
0 0:00 0:17 6 / 10 2 Drone 0 0 1 0:11 0:28 7 / 10 1 Drone 0 0 | ||
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
On October 23 2010 20:02 Haploid wrote: I've added some options to increase realism: Worker can be sent early when building a structure, e.g. 12 Gateway (send @120 minerals) Startup delay for mineral mining, e.g. #Startup mining delay = 3 seconds Startup delay for worker production, e.g. #Startup build delay = 3 seconds So a more realistic 10/10-gate would be something like: #Startup mining delay = 2 seconds #Startup build delay = 1 seconds 10 Pylon (send @80 minerals) > Gateway (send @120 minerals) [2] 12 Zealot* [3] 18 Pylon (send @80 minerals) Which only delays the third Zealot by about 2 seconds, not too bad. Note that if you switch the delays, you'll get that Zealot out one second sooner. Which would seem to indicate that it's better to send your workers first, then produce a new worker. If you have a full second's worth of delay between building and sending, then yes, that would be true. But if you're that slow with the very first two actions you have to do in every game, you're spending thought trying to optimize when the fact of the matter is that you should just click faster. | ||
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DFarce
55 Posts
As said above, the negative minerals is a little odd. As well, whoever suggested that the limiting factor be highlighted in red is a genius, thats a great idea. My only last thing is that the system is a little annoying to use with full word syntax, I find I am constantly going back to the examples to see what I am missing. I think you should make a shorthand syntax that is recognized as well to make constructing builds easier. Thanks for the great tool! | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
Here are two examples of masslings BO that I sometimes use in teamgames. One is queen first, other one is 6lings first (vs Z+X, these lings will spawn at the 2:30 mark just in time to stop a 6pool) 10 Pool (Queen first) --------------------- 10 Spawning Pool 10 Overlord 10 Overlord 10 Queen > Spawn Larvae 12 Zergling [14] 10 Pool (3Zerglings first) -------------------------- 10 Spawning Pool 10 Overlord 10 Overlord 10 Zergling [3] 13 Queen > Spawn Larvae 15 Zergling [11] While the Spawn Larvae does show up, adding or removing "> Spawn Larvae" doesn't change the timings whatsoever. I got 3 larvaes available, but the timer still waits as if there were only one. | ||
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
10 Spawning Pool 10 Overlord 10 Overlord 10 Queen 12 Zergling [6] 18 Spawn Larvae 18 Zergling [8] | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
But since spawning manually does work... guess that'll do for now. Thanks. | ||
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RationalGaze
United Kingdom121 Posts
Assuming a constant rate of worker production, we wouldn't need to specify when to build a depot/overlord/pylon since it could calculate for us that for example that at 10 supply, a Terran must build a supply depot so he doesn't get blocked since it takes 30secs to build one. So in the builder I would just put: Barracks Refinery Marine ...and the builder would say OK, well by the time you want to build the barracks, you will have had time to build 12 SCVs, so you will need to have built a depot at 10, so it will adjust the build order to: Supply Depot (time or supply at which this is buildable) Barracks (time or supply at which this is buildable) Refinery (time or supply at which this is buildable) Marine (time or supply at which this is buildable) Then I could add a Factory to the build and it would just put the earliest time I could do that based on the current resource collection rate. This is probably a lot more complicated than I think... | ||
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tidesonar02
2 Posts
Sadly I have issues with almost all my zerg sample builds: 9 Overlord 11 Scout 14 Spawning Pool 16 Extractor > +3 15 Queen 17 Overlord 5 0:49 1:06 9 / 10 1 Drone -6 0 6 1:06 1:23 10 / 18 1 Drone 40 0 7 1:06 1:23 11 / 18 0 Drone -10 0 8 1:15 1:32 12 / 18 0 Drone -5 0 9 1:30 1:47 13 / 18 0 Drone 49 0 10 1:36 2:41 14 / 18 0 Spawning Pool -100 0 11 1:45 2:02 13 / 18 0 Drone -83 0 Obviously minerals shouldn't be negative  ---- 10 Spawning Pool > Zergling 9 Overlord 11 Drone 16 Extractor 8 2:08 2:32 11 / 18 2 Zergling 169 0 9 2:15 2:32 12 / 18 2 Drone 169 0 10 2:15 2:45 13 / 18 2 Extractor 150 0 11 2:30 2:47 12 / 18 2 Drone 200 0 12 2:45 3:02 13 / 18 2 Drone 264 0 13 3:00 3:17 14 / 18 2 Drone 339 0 More drones should be spawned ---- Nevertheless your work is greatly appreciated. Thanks. | ||
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pyjamads
Denmark33 Posts
On October 28 2010 17:34 tidesonar02 wrote: Awesome util Sadly I have issues with almost all my zerg sample builds: + Show Spoiler + 9 Overlord 11 Scout 14 Spawning Pool 16 Extractor > +3 15 Queen 17 Overlord 5 0:49 1:06 9 / 10 1 Drone -6 0 6 1:06 1:23 10 / 18 1 Drone 40 0 7 1:06 1:23 11 / 18 0 Drone -10 0 8 1:15 1:32 12 / 18 0 Drone -5 0 9 1:30 1:47 13 / 18 0 Drone 49 0 10 1:36 2:41 14 / 18 0 Spawning Pool -100 0 11 1:45 2:02 13 / 18 0 Drone -83 0 Obviously minerals shouldn't be negative ---- 10 Spawning Pool > Zergling 9 Overlord 11 Drone 16 Extractor 8 2:08 2:32 11 / 18 2 Zergling 169 0 9 2:15 2:32 12 / 18 2 Drone 169 0 10 2:15 2:45 13 / 18 2 Extractor 150 0 11 2:30 2:47 12 / 18 2 Drone 200 0 12 2:45 3:02 13 / 18 2 Drone 264 0 13 3:00 3:17 14 / 18 2 Drone 339 0 More drones should be spawned ---- Nevertheless your work is greatly appreciated. Thanks. The reason in the last example is that you are not using Strict Mode, which uses your exact specification. But in "normal" mode, the Tool actually switches your stuff around, to optimize when you have enough minirals/gas to build someting higher up in your BO. This sometimes will give you an idea off how to optimize your build even more, but most of the time, it will actually slow it down, as you are saving up mins/gas for a reason. | ||
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tidesonar02
2 Posts
On October 28 2010 17:54 pyjamads wrote: The reason in the last example is that you are not using Strict Mode, which uses your exact specification. But in "normal" mode, the Tool actually switches your stuff around, to optimize when you have enough minirals/gas to build someting higher up in your BO. This sometimes will give you an idea off how to optimize your build even more, but most of the time, it will actually slow it down, as you are saving up mins/gas for a reason. Actually build order rearranging isn't bothering me at all. Problem is, there are minerals and larvaes available but Drones are not spawned. There should be lots of droning going on | ||
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Haploid
Netherlands89 Posts
On October 26 2010 00:16 Bitters wrote: Yet what comes out is a 14 gas, it stops drone production waiting for pools to finish before making queens (instead of droning to 15 for overlord and making queens when ready) This one is a little tricky to explain, but bear with me. The calculator tries to pick up the jobs in the order in which they appear. In this case, that means it'll want to schedule the Queens before it starts to schedule the Overlord. And obviously, when both Queens are already scheduled, it can no longer meet the 15 supply count trigger for the Overlord. This mechanism works great for jobs like scouting and probe transfers, which is what I intended the ">" operator to be used for. And it mostly works well for other stuff, but not always as you'd intend. I'll see what I can do to make the > operator more natural for building units, or if I can't think of a good way to schedule those jobs, I'll just disallow it and restrict the > operator to probe transfer jobs. On October 26 2010 02:46 icezar wrote: Can you please color with red the resource causing the delay? It's not always a resource causing the delay, but for as far as it is, as a rule of thumb it's usually the resource that is 0. I'll see what I can do. On October 26 2010 23:43 Phrencys wrote: I too think there's a problem with the spawn larva ability getting ignored. While the Spawn Larvae does show up, adding or removing "> Spawn Larvae" doesn't change the timings whatsoever. I got 3 larvaes available, but the timer still waits as if there were only one. Ok, I fixed that. Good examples. On October 27 2010 20:44 RationalGaze wrote: This is pretty cool, thanks for making this. I was just wondering if it's possible for you to make a similar tool which lets you just input your build order without specifying the supply count? So basically it is set to constantly produce probes and we can just input our build order and it will tell us at what time it would be possible to build that unit/structure. Then I could add a Factory to the build and it would just put the earliest time I could do that based on the current resource collection rate. This is probably a lot more complicated than I think... It really is. Just one example I can throw at you is: as a Protoss, when you build a constant stream of Probes, and you want to build a Pylon at 9 supply, you'll have to delay probe production for a few seconds. Otherwise, you won't be able to build the Pylon at 10, and you'll have an even longer delay as you wait for the Pylon to finish. People are going to want their Pylon at 9, so you'll need a way of saying: the Pylon has priority over constant Probe production, but not so much priority that it'll build the Pylon at 6 supply. It's tricky. On October 28 2010 17:34 tidesonar02 wrote: 10 Spawning Pool > Zergling 9 Overlord 11 Drone 16 Extractor More drones should be spawned Good point. I'll figure out what's up with that. | ||
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Bitters
Canada303 Posts
15 Hatchery 14 Spawning Pool 15 Overlord 17 Queen> Spawn Larvae 19 Queen> Spawn Larvae 21 Overlord 30 Overlord 35 Spawn Larvae &Drone[5] & Overlord > Spawn Larvae 40 Drone [3] producing hatcheries not spawning larvae error? | ||
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