EPTI just want to know if theres something I am missing. I usually open fast roaches and put some pressure and then decide depending on my opponent from there. So am i just stuck not knowing or is there something i missed.
ZvZ solid builds???
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Dice17
United States520 Posts
I just want to know if theres something I am missing. I usually open fast roaches and put some pressure and then decide depending on my opponent from there. So am i just stuck not knowing or is there something i missed. | ||
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Zvendetta
United States321 Posts
Check out the artosis replay packs and study them, he does a lot of nifty stuff in ZvZ | ||
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JTWStephens
United States60 Posts
1300 Diamond zerg. | ||
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vanceblasc2
Bulgaria11 Posts
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Pfeff
United States270 Posts
On October 11 2010 06:22 vanceblasc2 wrote: 7 pool and put a spine crawler in your opponents base Don't be a fag If you want to get better, that's definitely not the way to go. Getting a fast, cheap win is as beneficial to you as an equally fast and shitty loss. It's a good strat to have in your bag, but it's obvious you want to get better so don't resort to this garbage. Focus on drone timings (and obviously macro here) and you will improve. Macro is the biggest difference between Platinum and 1400 Diamond that I've noticed. We are a very reactionary race, so focus on scouting and adjusting to what you need to do. Baneling drops are always fun  | ||
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Moa
United States790 Posts
I like to go 13 pool 12 gas First 100 gas to speed next 50 to banelings Around 21 supply I start to get a bunch of zerglings Usually at around 16 zerglings I my baneling nest and speed will be up at this point I send a few to his base to see if he went roaches, if he did I will leave my zerglings outside his base and expand. If he didn't go roaches I will morph around 8 banelings and shoot for his mineral lines forcing him to either run his probes away and lose mining time or lose the game. From here on out I will either all in if I think he is weak enough to die to it, or get an expansion and tech to mutalisks. -+1 attacks for mutalisks is a critical upgrade as it increases the damage of the bounces on the glaive +2 and +3 do not. -A lot of ZvZ games involving mutalisks come down to getting upgrades, constantly producing mutalisks, and having the defenders advantage of queens with transfuse. Many of my games have been won and lost by the use of transfuse on mutalisks for this reason sometimes I will get extra queens. -Use your spare larvae to get zerglings and upgrade them, sometimes if your opponent is so focused on getting mutalisks you can simply get around 40 zerglings and gun for his mineral lines and he will have nothing to stop you. I really like using banelings at all times in this match-up, they are great for punishing your opponent for blind countering mutalisks by getting hydras. Also if you have air dominance banelings are great for setting the ground battle back to square one by destroying both you and your opponents ground forces, then you can use mutalisks to snipe out small numbers of hydras as they are being produced. Replay | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
But if all you want to do is to survive and drag out the game, the best build you can get is rushing roaches to block your ramp, getting an early +1 attack to 2-shot lings, and with the evo you can get a spore in your mineral line. Then spread creep to your natural and get a spore down there too, while teching to lair to get infestors. Infestor/+1 roach completely rapes everything until tier 3. 5 infestors can take down endless amounts of mutas. If he insists on staying mutas start mixing in hydras. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
- early roach to block ramp into macro into some lair tech. You give up map control so expect to make a 1 base allin. Not good vs fe builds. - speedling baneling war. | ||
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Dice17
United States520 Posts
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Moa
United States790 Posts
On October 11 2010 10:06 Trowa789 wrote: With fast roach pressure all you have to do is scout before you push if I see mass ling I will wait for more roaches and watch my possitioning when i push Fast roach pushes are not very good for a few reasons. They leave you open to speedling backstabs which is the main reason that most people dont go for roach pushes. Roaches without speed are slow enough that spine crawlers thrown up when the push goes out will finish when it appears depending on positions. They cost gas which means that if your opponent can delay you with crawlers or a speedling backstab they can get mutalisks in large numbers before you can get any AA and then you lose. This is why I prefer speedling baneling, you have more options and can dictate play easily with the map control given to you by speedlings. | ||
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NeWnAr
Singapore231 Posts
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Dice17
United States520 Posts
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DTrain
Australia64 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158690¤tpage=4#76 Its a very solid build for ZvZ. If you have time look at some of his ZvZ replays and you should get an idea what its about. | ||
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Deleted_143
Australia256 Posts
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rbkl
772 Posts
Try (6) Drone (7) Pool Make drones up to 9/10 food, Double Extractor Trick, make 3 sets of lings send the two extractor'd drones to the base and make spines rally zlings | ||
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Dice17
United States520 Posts
On October 11 2010 10:38 DTrain wrote: Artosis' baneling build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158690¤tpage=4#76 Its a very solid build for ZvZ. If you have time look at some of his ZvZ replays and you should get an idea what its about. Yes I will definantly be checking out artosis builds aswell as others if I can | ||
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Zvendetta
United States321 Posts
Roaches w/ armor makes them nye impervious to ling attack, which is what roaches are most vulnerable to early game. In addition to staying on top of macro, the key is also staying on top of upgrades. This is because rarely will you get the time/opportunity to achieve ultras, so upgrades is what will do you best. | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
In this case, you need to make sure three things are always true: 1) Their largest potential army (all their units last time you scouted + amount of units that could theoretically pop since you scouted) is not going to kill you by the time it reaches your base if it attacks right now 2) You are not going to be helpless vs fast mutas 3) You are not going to lose to blings Past that, it's a short-term macro game. If a ZvZ doesn't end with the early armies, or baneling attacks, then in my experience, it will always fall upon the mutas - and whoever mines the most gas wins. That's why speedling opening is very popular, it lets you secure an expo and deny the opponent's. | ||
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
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baconbits
United States419 Posts
On October 11 2010 10:49 Zvendetta wrote: In the case of roach ramp blocking, isn't +1 armor more effective? Roaches w/ armor makes them nye impervious to ling attack, which is what roaches are most vulnerable to early game. In addition to staying on top of macro, the key is also staying on top of upgrades. This is because rarely will you get the time/opportunity to achieve ultras, so upgrades is what will do you best. +0 armor roaches: 8 banelings +1 armor roaches: 8 banelings so armor makes no difference. +1 attack roaches however, 2 shot zerglings. Much more effective. | ||
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Deathfate
Spain555 Posts
If you see him going roaches, make some drones and then keep the roach count as high as him, you should have speedlings to keep tracks of his roach numbers, the idea is to get an early drone advantage and then use your ramp to hold the few extra roaches he could have. If he goes ling baneling you should place a spine crawler and make baneling drones, use 2 banelings to kill his baneling balls and, a few lings to stop his baneling picking lings, you will need good micro. In maps you cant do this you must do the same but have way more lings and make some drones from time to time. I always recommend going roach hydra infestor, i think its better than muta but thats only my opinion, with +1 range attack your roaches can kill his lings in two hits and you can use fungal to kill every ling bane muta, the trick here is to not make a lot of defenses early, 5 hydras and 3 queens can handle mutas quite well, pump a lot of drones and make sure to have around 3 spores per base once you leave your base. Once you engage you will need about 5 infestors, use 1 fungal to deny his mutas, if he swithced to roach hydra too you should have a lot of hydras and only a bunch of roaches to tank, fungal his roaches and abuse the range of hydra to have free hits. | ||
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Dice17
United States520 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159648 | ||
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shadowy
Bulgaria305 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
BTW Roaches really don't give a shit about spine crawlers, you can have like 5 at your natural and I'll just walk to your main npnp On October 11 2010 19:02 shadowy wrote: Just recently played ZvZ where the opponent opened with fast roaches. As soon as I scouted ít I went All-in zlings (happend to be 13 pool for me) and a bit later slings. The guy didnt even had a chance. Did he push with like 15+ Roaches and a few banelings? If not, well of course it'd work. | ||
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Amadi
Finland139 Posts
No, really. In ZvZ, your opponent's base will always be covered in creep, so if you can get queens there, they are actually exceedingly cost effective combat units. And just as good on the defense. The issue is that they cannot make fast attacks, but I think their other merits largely outpower this single negative aspect. Remember that whatever you do, though, you're going to want Infestors. Infestors are ridiculously good in ZvZ. | ||
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Dice17
United States520 Posts
On October 11 2010 19:34 Amadi wrote: I am some diamond zerg with 1100 or so. Imo, Roach Queen. No, really. In ZvZ, your opponent's base will always be covered in creep, so if you can get queens there, they are actually exceedingly cost effective combat units. And just as good on the defense. The issue is that they cannot make fast attacks, but I think their other merits largely outpower this single negative aspect. Remember that whatever you do, though, you're going to want Infestors. Infestors are ridiculously good in ZvZ. Yeah I have seen many queen builds work before in zvz i just questioned it A LOT | ||
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