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Void Rays in T v P - Design Flaw - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Cryhavoc
Profile Joined April 2010
372 Posts
October 09 2010 10:03 GMT
#61
Rays designed exactly for this in early game but if u fail in micro u simply loose.
Even if u don't scout in 3v3 rays can destroy whole bases with bad simcity simply u cant do anything and terran souldnt be QQ about i cant scout.
En Taro Adun!
bulge
Profile Joined July 2010
161 Posts
October 09 2010 10:27 GMT
#62
i can't say anything about OP unstoppable strats,

but i like the idea of voids charging faster but losing charge when switching targets.
Majk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden146 Posts
October 09 2010 10:40 GMT
#63
Which of the top 130 (2000pt +) are you? Why don't you post replay? All other 2000pt Terrans don't seem to share your problem. Please submit a solution that doesn't involve a huge nerf or change to the VRs function(s) in the game. Your suggestion handles the so called "imbalance" you speak of but it also removes one of few ways for P to harrass T early, I simply don't think that's an balanced change at all..
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
October 09 2010 11:06 GMT
#64
Two sample replays uploaded. There are a million factors why I wasn't able to hold off the rush, and how I could have changed my b.o. to be able to hold it. The replays merely show how the rush is properly executed by Toss.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
Sakkosekken
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway21 Posts
October 09 2010 11:21 GMT
#65
I have done this build a lot lately, but wouldnt not walling in solve the issue?
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
October 09 2010 11:24 GMT
#66
On October 09 2010 20:21 Sakkosekken wrote:
I have done this build a lot lately, but wouldnt not walling in solve the issue?


A lot of top Toss players do a 10pylon 10 gate to chrono out 2 zealots rallyed into your base. You WILL lose scvs if you don't wall. I see top korean terrans lose scvs to this rush all the time.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
CrY.
Profile Joined July 2010
Japan97 Posts
October 09 2010 11:28 GMT
#67
Hi linko. first of all, why would you ever think posting something like this on TL would solve your problem? the sheer fact people are calling out your ranking and bming your connotation speaks volumes. if you were a 1600~ diamond who even decently keeps up with the scene you would know who linko is.

yeah this strat is hell on scrap, where they can charge on the destructible rocks. the best suggestion i have is to open 3 rax, and use your 2nd mule to scan. if you see robo grab an expo or do whatever standard build. if you see no robo and they have 2 gas, mass up and bunk down until you can find what they're up to.or open 3 rax on maps like scrap and steppes and on LT, delta, do whatever you like.

umm yeah it, its a really strong strat, especially if u dont see it coming, but 3 rax --> scout --> expand wont put you far behind as you are making it out to be. hell even if u see no robo put like mass bunks then cloak banshee

Nu11
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada167 Posts
October 09 2010 11:34 GMT
#68
there's nothing wrong with this bo.

Terran can do the same thing with raven tank marine push. It's 100% unstoppable if the terran does it right and protoss goes a traditional build.

as for scouting, that's also bull. you'll need to get better at it. Terran is the one race that is virtually impossible to properly scout, I have no idea why you would claim this for protoss.
Zealot)KT(
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands69 Posts
October 09 2010 11:47 GMT
#69
If this is really unstoppable, another solution would be to make VRs not be able to charge up their lasers on their own units. I've always had a feeling that that was unintended anyway.
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
October 09 2010 11:49 GMT
#70
Have u considered not walling off ? If you are worried abt early pressure you can always throw up a bunker a bit away from the ramp. 10 gate chrono zealot doesnt seem like a problem with good building placement and depots so ur marines can run around the mineral patches all day. 10 gate is also pretty bad for P's eco.. not dramatically bad but it wont pay for itself like an early rax early orbital command.
MayorITC
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Korea (South)798 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-09 11:51:48
October 09 2010 11:51 GMT
#71
You didn't lose cause of void rays. You lost cause the Protoss had a significantly larger army size than you because you attempted to tech and expand at the same time in both games. Then factor in that the Protoss player had a better army composition in both games and it's no surprise that you lost.
SwaY-
Profile Joined March 2009
Dominican Republic463 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-09 11:57:38
October 09 2010 11:53 GMT
#72
On October 09 2010 14:59 link0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2010 14:50 Chill wrote:
You haven't proven your point. You've just said "They do this and it's impossible to stop".


It's not impossible to stop. But it does require certain (very unideal) builds to stop.

I'm talking about top level toss players who pull a very well refined version of this build. The key is that they PRECHARGE the void rays and position their stalkers well, something that low level Toss players cannot do and low level Terrans have not experienced against.


Hmm but what do you say about the multiple terran openings that dictate the pace of the MU? It's pretty much the same thing. 3gate-Void is pretty much the only PvT opening capable of dictating early game tempo, terran has many more, And you said it yourself that its very counterable. I dont get where you're getting at, this is what protoss has been dealing with vs terran forever :/

Edit: Void Rays are as designed flaw as the Banshee, if I open anything other than robo I will die.
Do it beautifully
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
October 09 2010 11:59 GMT
#73
On October 09 2010 20:51 MayorITC wrote:
You didn't lose cause of void rays. You lost cause the Protoss had a significantly larger army size than you because you attempted to tech and expand at the same time in both games. Then factor in that the Protoss player had a better army composition in both games and it's no surprise that you lost.


Those games weren't there to show what B.O. I could have used to stop the attack. Of course I know how to stop it if I knew it was coming. They were uploaded only to show what the Toss build was for those who didn't understand what I was talking about in the OP.

As to answer your point, against any other build, building a command center inside your main while you have 1 tech and 1 reactor rax pumping MM /w stim and shields + 1 bunker is enough to defend against most 1-base builds.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-09 12:11:57
October 09 2010 12:02 GMT
#74
On October 09 2010 20:53 SwaY- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2010 14:59 link0 wrote:
On October 09 2010 14:50 Chill wrote:
You haven't proven your point. You've just said "They do this and it's impossible to stop".


It's not impossible to stop. But it does require certain (very unideal) builds to stop.

I'm talking about top level toss players who pull a very well refined version of this build. The key is that they PRECHARGE the void rays and position their stalkers well, something that low level Toss players cannot do and low level Terrans have not experienced against.


Hmm but what do you say about the multiple terran openings that dictate the pace of the MU? It's pretty much the same thing. 3gate-Void is pretty much the only PvT opening capable of dictating early game tempo, terran has many more, And you said it yourself that its very counterable. I dont get where you're getting at, this is what protoss has been dealing with vs terran forever :/

Edit: Void Rays are as designed flaw as the Banshee, if I open anything other than robo I will die.


No, there is a difference. Because gate, robo, gate is a very flexible Toss bo that allows you to deal with pretty much any opening Terran throws at you, without setting yourself back economically (There is a good reason why it's the most common high level Toss opening). One-base 3 rax (all with add-ons) will smash 3gate+VR, but is weak against the majority of other Toss builds (there is a good reason why this ISN'T a common high level Terran opening). That's the difference.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
Cashout
Profile Joined May 2010
115 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-09 12:09:14
October 09 2010 12:08 GMT
#75
On October 09 2010 19:40 Majk wrote:
All other 2000pt Terrans don't seem to share your problem.

Jinro posted yesterday about this strat and said its very strong and hard to stop without previous scouting.
babyToSS
Profile Joined December 2009
233 Posts
October 09 2010 12:09 GMT
#76
This strat is crazy good on short rush distance maps like steppes where you have to wall in or face early zealot pressure and lose some scvs. If you wall in, well u die to pre-charged void rays+3 warp gate all in. Void rays kill stuff too quick and even if u can hold it off somehow, its really difficult to deal with a warp gate all in follow up without taking a huge eco hit, if not outright losing.

Void rays are pretty redic even when compared to DTs and banshees because there really is no reliable answer to charged void rays+gateway in the early game unless u go some sort of marine heavy 1 base all in.
babyToSS here! Can u go easy on me plzzz?
Pabs
Profile Joined April 2010
93 Posts
October 09 2010 12:31 GMT
#77
You guys are being way too critical of the op and missing out on a potentially good discussion.

I do a very similar build as Protoss and I have to say it is alarmingly effective. I have to agree that there is a small window of time where it is unbelievably difficult for the Terran to deal with regardless of unit composition. The window occurs when the Protoss has 5-6 stalkers, one void ray, and one sentry. The numbers don't have to be exact just in my experience this is the earliest and smallest group that gives the Terran no options except to sit at the top of their ramp.

Yes of course Terran can do all in marauders or mass marines with scvs, but I believe linko is referring to standard (safe) builds most people are doing.

Bottom line: I win most of my PvT games with this opening. If the Terran walls their front I win guaranteed unless I micro poorly. Either way I am provided with a critical window to expand and tech at the Terrans expense.
Opinions Are like assholes; Everyone has one and they all stink
Alphasquad
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria505 Posts
October 09 2010 12:39 GMT
#78
even though im not 2k diamond i have to wonder why you played so passive instead of pushing with infantry, one marine up the ramp and you will see the size of the ground army and then decide to push or retreat
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
October 09 2010 12:56 GMT
#79
Void Rays are the most fun mechanic in the game, and early game they are really simple to shut down if you know they are comming. They are so idiotically slow, that shutting them down is np at all.
Dead girls don't say no.
kasumimi
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Greece460 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-09 13:06:43
October 09 2010 13:06 GMT
#80
Concussive shell on cooldown first, then fuck up void ray as much as you want.

User was warned for this post
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