Void Rays in T v P - Design Flaw - Page 23

On October 12 2010 04:44 Graphex wrote:
God you're a moron AcuWill

On October 12 2010 04:39 AcuWill wrote:

Excellent argument. Counter my ad-hominem argument (as you define it) with an ad-hominem argument is brilliant.

Further, I never actually made the argument you are accusing me of. Just difficult to fathom the fact that Terran (there you go big boy) complaining about mixing a high dps unit, which requires high level micro, with one of the worst dps per cost units in game (stalkers) is really a reason to want to nerf one of the few units that give Toss an advantage if used well.

In that case, why not remove force fields as well. Or range of Colossus. Or any other advantage that Toss have as a race.

On October 12 2010 04:50 .Aar wrote:


Fun fact: I never defined your argument as ad-hominem, because I don't define myself as a race on StarCraft (as per the "hominem" part of that). This post, with your snide "big boy" comment, was however definitely something I would define as ad hominem.

And yes, you did make that argument. Reread your post. You're essentially arguing that Terran units are so overpowered that Terrans have no right to complain about a broken unit. If you had said "players in general" instead of "terrain," one could have indeed construed the point you now claim to have been making, but you didn't.

And high level micro my ass. A-click on a nearby pylon or destructible rock and a-move into a base, checking once for turrets or not even if you've got more than 2.

And please don't go with the whole "WELL IF YOU'RE GONNA COMPLAIN ABOUT ONE THING WHY NOT TAKE EVERYTHING AWAY." Nobody is complaining about Force Fields, Colossi, or "any other advantage that Toss [has] as a race," because those make sense and don't depend on factors like your own pylon or neutral destructibles.

Note: Don't turn this into a "I don't like you so I'm going to derail this entire topic so I can spar with you" thread. Actually consider the points being made and offer your own rebuttal or interpretation.

On October 12 2010 04:38 ahcho00 wrote:
seriously if i hear one more fucking post about better scouting i'm gonna ....i'm gonna do something i haven't figured it out yet. the point of the build is that he HAS THE OPTION TO NOT DO IT BY SCOUTING U. AND ONCE HE DOES THAT U ARE IN A HUGE SHITHOLE because he can either expand - in which u can do nothing about because u decided to get vikings(blindly) and not know about it OR he just runs to ur base with a bunch of stalkers probably because u don't have a good enough unit count to counter his stalkers. what the OP and most of the top players are trying to say is that this build is giving the protoss the advantage without the terran being able to SAFELY transition out of the void ray defense and get a solid ground army to fend off a push. not to mention that he can just out macro u and u'll pretty much die anyway. AND the protoss being able to simply transition out of this. yes yes we know u can do the 3 rax to counter this, but u want to do that all in every game against a protoss that knows of this build and knows that if U SCREW up somehow ur dead? as a pro (not that i am one), i would not want another player to gain advantage of me like that.

On October 12 2010 04:59 link0 wrote:
The "Brat_OK build" which is mass marines/ghosts is completely obsolete. Absolutely zero top terran players use that build, including even BratOK himself =(.

The build is easily hard-countered by the #1 most popular Toss build (gate robo-obs gate followed up by one-base zealot + non-range-upgraded colossus).



Haha, oh, I just noticed in the match history that Fenix (2200+ diamond, #1 Terran on NA) just lost to the 3gate+VR build from a much lower level Toss player. Lolz. Guess he "should have just SCANNED"! What a noob you are, Fenix.

On October 12 2010 05:05 Barca wrote:
I'm having the hardest time understanding this thread. Aren't ALL proxies hard to scout? And don't VRs have counters: stimmed rines, vikings, and turrets? Especially with the 1-1-1 build, the Terran player already has the starport and marines to handle this. Microed vikings beat VRs without the acceleration upgrade, but that wouldn't even come into context if this is an early game/proxy rush.

Someone please reply to my post and thoroughly explain why the VR mechanic is messed up. Because even if it is, there are more pressing issues at hand if a unit has a clear-and-present counter. There are some who do not.

Maybe now Terran players know what it's like to ALWAYS have to go 2 gate robo against them to be safe against cloaked banshees. The threat of the unit forces me to open the game differently than if that unit did not exist; I must get an oberserver or it's an auto-win for the Terran if he goes cloaked banshees.

On October 12 2010 05:05 Barca wrote:
I'm having the hardest time understanding this thread. Aren't ALL proxies hard to scout? And don't VRs have counters: stimmed rines, vikings, and turrets? Especially with the 1-1-1 build, the Terran player already has the starport and marines to handle this. Microed vikings beat VRs without the acceleration upgrade, but that wouldn't even come into context if this is an early game/proxy rush.

Someone please reply to my post and thoroughly explain why the VR mechanic is messed up. Because even if it is, there are more pressing issues at hand if a unit has a clear-and-present counter. There are some who do not.

Maybe now Terran players know what it's like to ALWAYS have to go 2 gate robo against them to be safe against cloaked banshees. The threat of the unit forces me to open the game differently than if that unit did not exist; I must get an oberserver or it's an auto-win for the Terran if he goes cloaked banshees.

On October 12 2010 05:11 ahcho00 wrote:


we're discussing the idea that it's not just a void ray...it's a fully charged void ray...big difference. if ur wondering how it's a fully charged void ray when it gets to ur base, please read the pages everyone else had to read.

On October 12 2010 05:13 AcuWill wrote:
That is like saying that it's not the banshee, it's the fully cloaked banshee without detection.

If you get to the point where you have 3+ fully charged voidrays in your base with no way to kill them, you deserve to lose. Just like if you have 3 cloaked banshees with no detection, or 12 Mutalisks with only siege tanks and marauders.

On October 12 2010 05:05 Barca wrote:
I'm having the hardest time understanding this thread. Aren't ALL proxies hard to scout? And don't VRs have counters: stimmed rines, vikings, and turrets? Especially with the 1-1-1 build, the Terran player already has the starport and marines to handle this. Microed vikings beat VRs without the acceleration upgrade, but that wouldn't even come into context if this is an early game/proxy rush.

Someone please reply to my post and thoroughly explain why the VR mechanic is messed up. Because even if it is, there are more pressing issues at hand if a unit has a clear-and-present counter. There are some who do not.

Maybe now Terran players know what it's like to ALWAYS have to go 2 gate robo against them to be safe against cloaked banshees. The threat of the unit forces me to open the game differently than if that unit did not exist; I must get an oberserver or it's an auto-win for the Terran if he goes cloaked banshees.