EPT
Artosis teaching!
Artosis Reppack 2 + Discussion - Page 3
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Obsolescence
United States270 Posts
Artosis teaching! | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 07 2010 16:30 Darkren wrote: Im so this is just too good, best quote of the day. Ok lets be serious, if im late game vs a p and i go ultra ling, can't the protoss just counter with zealot immortal and a few sentries to block off the immortal, has happened to me several times and zealots seem really cost effect vs ultra and are not bad vs zergling. What would be the best transition to counter that mix Well you can't just choose an army that counters that...it doesn't quite work like that. You do the best you can with your first max in a long game, and then start countering protoss better as you lose it. Kill his first max if you can, and then if hes coming back with that unit comp, transition totally (you will have so many larva by then it should be easy) into something that just pwns it or catches him off guard (like mutas) | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 07 2010 17:49 LeCastor wrote: Hi Artosis thanks for the replay pack. I love your ZvZ, need more of them Do you think it's still ok to go infestors + hydra when the ground distance is big. How can you make a push without being harrased by mutas ? (Leave some infestors in the base, spores , ... ? ) if he's actually investing in mutas heavily, you can just leave some infestors behind. they cost efficiently kill mutalisks so bad if you catch them before they close that it doesn't matter if you don't have all of them with your army. The bigger the map, the harder it is to do this strat, but it is doable on all maps because infestors just pwn everything so hard. | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 07 2010 19:12 Red_Storm wrote: Hey artosis, what would you do against a 2 base pure blink stalker w/ a few attack upgrades on meta? Hydra/Ling is pretty good, but only on creep. You can also use infestors if you went that route. His blink will move them when fungaled, but not too much and then you can hit em with ur lings. | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 07 2010 19:18 Zerebreat wrote: Doing the 14E14P in ZvZ made me feel like I'am not learning anything (~600 Dia right know read: I suck) except for microing those 2 units. Guess I'll try that again. Switched to 14Hatch with an early scout and only did the Baneling build on 4 Player maps where my opponent spawned on the base my drone didn't scout to be safe. Is there something you would recommend me for forcing a more macro oriented play in ZvZ without being so weak to a possible 6 Pool? edit: I just watched your ZvP on Steppes and would like to ask what made you cancel the 2nd Queen at your main Hatch? the baneling build ZvZ will teach you so many important things about ZvZ. everything in the matchup goes back to how strong that opening is. you can't do anything that isn't safe vs it. transitions in and out of it are extremely important. it can turn into absolutely anything in the mid and late game. and once u become top level at it, you and your top level opponents will not be able to kill each other with any regularity with it. thats why i say for people to really, really, REALLY practice that build. | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 07 2010 19:50 Gentso wrote: Hey Artosis, You did an interesting strat against a Protoss on Steppes of War, which was some kind of mass spine crawler defense into roach/infestor followed by ultralisks. I have a few questions about that game. 1) Why did you get so so so many spinecrawlers? Was it because your plan from the start was to turtle and drone really hard with them until he attacked, and do you think you might have went overboard with them early on? 2) Is infestor against a standard protoss army like that going to become Standard? It kind of turned into my plan. I was mineral heavy, wanted to defend with spines. Then the Spines bought me enough time to tech up. No, I don't think it will become standard. I played with it a lot, and its really difficult to pull off, and not as effective as I'd like my standard ZvP strategy to be. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
Don´t u think having only infestor as anti air units is dangerous, specially since you had 2 islands, even with nydus networks you would still be very harrassed ... Altho for what I saw in replays, koreans are pretty much attack centred and not harass ... Anyway Do you think it´s viable for infestor as unique AA defence ? | ||
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LittleqUeeNn
China9 Posts
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Ouga
Finland645 Posts
Again I keep seeing some very bad playing by opponents occasionally though. How is it possible the opponent goes forge+2pylon block, yet he's 0-0-0 ups @ 17min with full ground army? It's as if people have absolute no understanding how powerful upgrades can be :> | ||
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DownMaxX
Canada1311 Posts
Q1: Which P and T build(s) are you the most comfortable against, and why? Q2: Which P and T build(s) give you the most difficulty at the moment, and why? Q3(a): I haven't seen any void ray rushes in this rep pack yet, but I'm curious as to how you prefer to react to a (scouted) void ray opening. (b): You seem to prefer getting extra queens for spread in ZvT, but not ZvP. How do you react if you're expecting let's say a 4 gate based on your early scouting and he surprises you with a proxy void ray? Q4: How do you feel about Zerg's scouting options pre-Overseer? Let's say you attempt to sack your 2 slow overlords to see his tech against a 1-base P early game, and they both get sniped by a few stalkers. Let's say this example is on Metalopolis on close ground-distance positions. How would you play in the dark in this scenario? Q5: Do you currently use Brood Lords in any scenario, or are Ultralisks always your late game choice? | ||
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Cirqueenflex
499 Posts
Again I keep seeing some very bad playing by opponents occasionally though. How is it possible the opponent goes forge+2pylon block, yet he's 0-0-0 ups @ 17min with full ground army? It's as if people have absolute no understanding how powerful upgrades can be :> on the other hand, except for the game on steppes (replay pack 2) and maybe one that slipped through my attention Artosis didn't get much upgrades either, didn't he? (Upgrades, not abilities) i think he started them when he thought about going ultra (or before to counter the +1 attack on toss i guess) personally i feel like zerglings are the most cost-effective unit in the game if upgraded better than the opponent Not only do they get the most damage boost in % for the upgrades but also the result that they chew through enemies way faster gives them a) way more lifetime span (less enemies hitting them) and b) most importantly it allows them to surround other units way better (because of their higher damage output they create holes in the opponents ball faster). This often allows additional zerglings to attack compared to w/e upgrade. Early +1 zerglings can very well even do a cost-effective ramp break vs roaches/zealots and the likes (of course if there are 20+ roaches and hydras and zerglings never even reach the enemy is a different story :p)btw you played really like the current GSL champ in that Steppes game. Not only you got a lot of different tech (of which i liked the ovie transport most, saved you 8 drones at gold expo) but also you got 2 infestation pits and i was waiting for double upgrades for infestors :Dalso i felt like in this game you could get some corruptors vs those colossi who roasted your army badly multiple times (i think if your opponent was smarter in army control and not wasting his reinforcments he could have broken you right there when his army was in your former west expo) since you had hive tech anyway you could have gotten 2-3 brood lords out of those corruptors to add to your army/screw up his expo on high ground | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On October 07 2010 21:12 Artosis wrote: [about infestors] No, I don't think it will become standard. I played with it a lot, and its really difficult to pull off, and not as effective as I'd like my standard ZvP strategy to be. Given this I am wondering why you dislike the Korean style (roach heavy, especially roach burrow) versus protoss? Anything specific ? I have found myself always getting fast roaches (and their upgrades) against P and it seems to work very nicely and get me into the mid game much better than a muta opener. Just wondering what the issues are with it at a higher level. | ||
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DamageInq
United States283 Posts
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Overswarm
United States62 Posts
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strength
United States493 Posts
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Rikk
Bahrain31 Posts
You sir, are the Man | ||
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mangoloid
100 Posts
I watched all the zvts. Watching them, I wondered a couple of things: There were several games in which the opp was going mass bio and you had seemingly many opportunities to go baneling but didn't (opting instead for infester/hydra/ultra). Is this because you are just trying out the new infester/hydra strat and leaving banes out as an option or because you had good reasons not to go banes (reasons I am missing)? I felt you could have ended several games in a much more decisive way had you gone banes, so was curious about this. Also, I notice points in some games where your unit production is limited by larva #s, and it seemed like you had the money to build an in-base hatch and produce off it. I have not seen you build an in-base hatch in these replays yet and so I was wondering what reasons you had for this. It makes sense that with the mass expo/many queens you are going in these zvts, an in-base hatch is out of the question early-mid game, but it looked like one would help out a lot late game. Anyway, I think this is a cool zvt play style you are using right now. Good luck with GSL2. I look forward to watching you and Tasteless commentating. ( ^^)b | ||
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ScholarZero
14 Posts
I'm in gold and trying to work on my core before I get too fancy. You say practicing Banelings ZvZ is the best way to learn the ZvZ matchup, is there something you would say is the best learning path/opening for ZvT and ZvP? ZvT I try to go baneling/muta/Infestor/Ultra ZvP I try to go Roach/Hydra then... well, usually who knows. If you have an answer or links to what you would recommend, that would be great! The replay packs are awesome, thanks! | ||
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kerminator
Austria75 Posts
Q1 What do you think is the best ZvP response (except an very early pool) to an early cannon contain with expand or 4gate followup Q2 Will you upload any coverage/content on the GSL qualifiers again ? because that was so awesome | ||
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dj_lil_sloan
20 Posts
Q1: Could you elaborate on why you don't like the +1 lings in ZvP? I found some success with it against the increasingly common phoenixes -> force hydra -> stomp with collosus builds. Q2: Is there a reason you don't hatch first more often? At 1200 diamond I've found I can defend it pretty much everytime vs toss/terran. | ||
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