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On September 28 2010 22:38 Artosis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 21:30 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote:
So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings? Every zerg should practice 14gas 13pool every game zvz. It can deal with everything, and will teach u zvz eventually. I time things based on what i see in zvz, so id need more direct questions to fully explain anything. Also, just fyi, infestor roach hydra is the ultimate late-mid game army. Properly timed and controlled it beats all.
How do you handle early (6 or 7) pools with this build? On some longer rush distances I know your lings will pop out right as their lings come in, but on say close position 4p maps (LT or DQ especially) they seem to arrive significantly sooner than your lings popping. Should I just be pulling my drones off creep and running them around since ling and drone speed is close to equal off creep? What about the spine crawler(s) on the 7 pool in that situation?
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This isn't much about the game, I posted it as a comment on Youtube but not sure you read those so I'm going to repost it here.
Hey Artosis, I've been wondering how well is yours/IdrA's/Tasteless' Korean? Do you guys just know the basics to get around or a bit more to have fluent conversations? I am wondering the progress of your years being there a little over 2 years.
Also thanks for being such a bad ass caster, I love all your jokes they make it hard to watch the game though ahaha! A fruit dealer has to sell more bananas to banana farmers!
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On September 28 2010 22:28 Artosis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 21:03 Mbon wrote:
Hey Artosis, thanks for posting these videos, they are an extremely valuable learning tool for me, and I imagine others like me.
I have two questions, first.. In ZvT, Mutaling Baneling seems to be the best unit composition vs most T builds. What exceptions are there to this i.e. What tells you *not* to get mutaling/bling and what should you get instead?
Also, I've been trying to use a two-base muta build against my T opponents recently, but have been having trouble with knowing when to start making less drones and more Zerglings and have been roflstomped by 3rax builds a couple of times. This may be just because I am executing my build poorly and I should have mutas by then..? but even if I scout the 3rax when I sac my proverlord (I know witty right?) generally get steam-rolled before I can morph a bling nest and get out enough to defend.
I am like 1.1k Platinum or something, which I understand is a completely different world to diamond. If you answer is simply "better mechanics" I completely accept that. Thanks. Q1. Thor timing pushes and mech are both bad choices for muta ling bane. Q2. Vs 3 rax timing, u do need ling bane instead of mutas. If its 1 base just make a ridiculous amnt of lings, dont even think about drones. Threaten runbyes to stall t while you make ur force.
Thanks very much. I will put this into practice.
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On September 28 2010 23:35 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 22:38 Artosis wrote:On September 28 2010 21:30 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote:
So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings? Every zerg should practice 14gas 13pool every game zvz. It can deal with everything, and will teach u zvz eventually. I time things based on what i see in zvz, so id need more direct questions to fully explain anything. Also, just fyi, infestor roach hydra is the ultimate late-mid game army. Properly timed and controlled it beats all. How do you handle early (6 or 7) pools with this build? On some longer rush distances I know your lings will pop out right as their lings come in, but on say close position 4p maps they seem to arrive significantly sooner. Should I just be pulling my drones off creep and running them around since ling and drone speed is close to equal off creep? What about the spine crawler(s) on the 7 pool in that situation?
Disclaimer: I'm not actually Artosis.
Dance your drones until lings pop. If you build is good you'll have lings and a queen on the way. Use the gaps in the mineral lines as funnels while you're waiting for your own lings. Oh and don't bother with gas. Hell cancle the extractor if you can to get an extra drone to fight with.
If he builds a spine crawler pre-emptively (while his lings are still eggs), send 2 drones to attack it, this'll keep the spines health at almost the exact health it was when you started attacking it, so with good reaction time it'll stay at like 50 hp.
When your lings pop bring every single drone and you'll be fine.
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what the hell is this graphics.. looks like supermario on nintendo 64
User was warned for this post
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@artosis: could you please post the replays of these games as well?
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Do you feel like 15 expand is doable versus T, even on maps with less exposed naturals? My reaction with drones to early T pressure when I do this is probably off, but sometimes it feels like I am just giving myself a BO loss if the opponent early raxs or does any kind of proxy play and I 15 hatch.
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Sick juke at 10:46 on ZvP vs 재즈 2 - batch 1. He still blocked you with a forcefield with his ninja Korean reflexes but against my scrubby opponents that will do wonders.
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Thank you very much for doing this, Artosis  Very helpful indeed.
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On September 29 2010 02:40 TheReward wrote:
Do you feel like 15 expand is doable versus T, even on maps with less exposed naturals? My reaction with drones to early T pressure when I do this is probably off, but sometimes it feels like I am just giving myself a BO loss if the opponent early raxs or does any kind of proxy play and I 15 hatch.
Artosis, cant thank you enough. Im a huge fan keep up the good work. I just wanted to re-point out this question because I also seek the answer to this. Ive noticed that a 15hatch into 14pool has been popular with the Koreans even before the latest patch. I noticed players like Cella going for a 15 hatch vs both T and P. Another example was Cool/Fruitdealer the other day in his 2nd game vs maka he went 15hatch and was able to stop the 2gate. Do you think 15 hatch is alot more viable now against both T and P? Could you give a general guideline to help in deciding wether or not to go for a 15 hatch. Obviously vs Proxy or close rush positions on maps it becomes bad.
And my last question is about another Korean style. This isnt so much vs Protoss but when against terran and they go 15hatch, I notice alot of times they will skip ling speed untill later and just tech to roaches. What are your thoughts on this style?
Thank you
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What a quick second batch, awesome!
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Good initiative!
What are you're general starts against each race?
And you should higher the quality you can't see minerals or supply on such a low quality...
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Hey Artosis, just wanted to first say your absolutely amazing and I'm going to learn so much from this so thank you so much. <3
But I also had some questions if you feel like answering.
1..From what I saw in your zvz's, you didn't really get in a drone scout to see if they did a really early pool(etc. 6 pool). I've been doing 14 gas 14 pool, does 14 pool 13 gas manage to defend it well?
2.I saw you going ling baneling in those two-three zvz replays(I've been struggling very much with zvz recently :p), yet have noticed an increasing trend in roach-hydra-infestor. I really dislike the 'randomness' of ling banelings, and have been seeking a new build. Do you believe the fast roach into roach hydra infestor is the way to go? If you could make a new video of you doing it against ling bling that would be super nice too, but you don't have to.
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thx a lot for posting these fpvods =) keep up the good work
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Around what supply did you get lair tech in the ZvT video? i couldnt really see the supply count.
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Thank you for the iniatiative. It's funny, Zergs really like to stick together and seem like some sort of support group, as seem here and at the "Zerg help me thread".
However, unless you're commentating your matches or offering insight on your actions by explaining here, I see little point on doing this, instead of just providing a replay pack as you did at the end of beta. With the new feature of player view through replays, I can get an instant FP"Vod" of FruitSeller, or anyone for that matter, and also have the advantage of being able to compare timings, and other cool stuff through the spectator tools. Also, this would stop this senseless QQ on graphics settings.
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I actually prefer the FPVODs over replays (both would probably be the best).
The main thing is you don't need SC2 to watch a youtube video and while replays are nice, seeing a game played from the ingame player perspective without the replay interface really makes a difference to me. Dunno why, it just seems that way.
Anyways, who does it really hurt? I like the variation from the usual replay packs that get posted (which I hardly ever get to watch as you need SC2 on the computer to actually watch them).
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On September 29 2010 08:18 phfantunes wrote:
Thank you for the iniatiative. It's funny, Zergs really like to stick together and seem like some sort of support group, as seem here and at the "Zerg help me thread".
Obviously the hive mentality, duh. 
Anyhow, it would be beneficial to make the videos have higher resoloution, just so we can see resource and supply counts D: but I don't really want to look the horse in the mouth, these are awesome already.
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On September 29 2010 02:36 wrags wrote:
@artosis: could you please post the replays of these games as well?
I feel like i have been handed a piece of cake in one hand but still am wanting some icecream in the other but i would really love another rep pack soon ( i believe you gave one not to long ago if i am not mistaken)
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EPT
