UPDATE!!: Due to popular demand, tomorrow I will be releasing some strategic commentary VODs instead of FPVODs. I'll still do some FPVOD stuff though, and feel out what people like better to learn from. Also, I will release a replay pack when I get some time to play a bunch of games.
As I was coming up in SC1, I found First Person VODs to be a great resource for getting better. I'm going to go ahead and 1-up that, by posting FPVODs and also answering as many questions people have concerning my play as I can.
I'll update them in batches as I have time if people like the idea/thread.
Warning!: the first batch (and probably the second as well when I do that) won't be the absolute highest quality games you could hope for. My internet has been gross and I have about 30 disconnects from this weekend, thus wrecking my ladder standing. Infact, I think 2 of the games posted end in disconnects lol. This combined with being a bit rusty (been concentrating solely on commentating recently) makes it not the best or proudest games I've ever played.
I dont mean to derail this thread into a "buff Zerg" thread, but if Zerg wasnt so UP you wouldve won that first game(where you dc'ed) with just the first push. He didnt micro his stalkers at all and you had WAY more units. You outplayed that guy hardcore but he still mightve won with his death push even if you didnt DC.
I loved the game on Lost Temple where you sent your entire army to hold off his army while you made a gazillion mutas. That was awesome.
Also, the Zerg chick sounds awesome in Korean lol.
Rahlekk mass clicking does several things one of which is keep your apm high. Why is this important? While the exact reasons are heavily debated if nothing it makes sure you are always doing something. Whether its attacking. Moving out. Expanding. Or macroing units.
On September 27 2010 11:22 Kazeyonoma wrote: Rahlekk mass clicking does several things one of which is keep your apm high. Why is this important? While the exact reasons are heavily debated if nothing it makes sure you are always doing something. Whether its attacking. Moving out. Expanding. Or macroing units.
Yeah, I understand that. And I suppose high level players are so used to high APM after the first five minutes that the early game must me extremely boring, thus the mass clicking everywhere... It's hard to keep your 100+ APM average when you only can move an Overlord and a Drone, huh?
On September 27 2010 11:00 Rahlekk wrote: This is awesome, thanks a bunch. (Side note: I will never get why people mass click when it seems just one would suffice.)
There are a lot of reasons, but keeping your speed up is the most important. An absolute must for top players.
Oh man, the Ultralisk woulda done way better at 15:30 pre-nerf 1.1. Imagine the colossus dead in one less hit and half the stalkers dead from the aoe. Could have cleaned that up easy.
I love ya Artosis and love watching you play and watching your replays. But man I am spoiled by 720p vods. These low quality ones are hard to watch sometimes.
@Kazeyonoma Generally pros say it gets the warmed up and ready for the intense macro later in the game.
In the first game, you saw the collosi and used roach/hydra to kill them. Was holding off the collosi until you got ultras your game plan the whole time? If you skip the spire stage, is it a good idea to sort of sacrafice your early army to keep his collosi numbers down?
In the second game, you defended with mass speedlings. I've read some strats (originated from Dimaga?) that you expand, drone til about 32, then mass lings, sometimes with +1 melee. Does this work well against Protoss?
One last general question, when do you get your gas at your expansions. It seems that you only get them when your fully saturated on the minerals, looking for confirmation.
Thanks Mr. Artosis, great commentary on the GSL, maybe next time I go to Seoul I'll say hey
On September 27 2010 11:00 Rahlekk wrote: This is awesome, thanks a bunch. (Side note: I will never get why people mass click when it seems just one would suffice.)
There are a lot of reasons, but keeping your speed up is the most important. An absolute must for top players.
Thanks for the OP Artosis, you are a gentleman and a scholar.
@ Rahlekk - I played DotA competitively for a few years and the reasoning behind it was that the second you might see a unit that you need to navitage around, ie, either towards or away from, you can just slide the mouse the tiniest bit and you are already right-clicking. So in essence it just allows you to control your units a touch more quickly. And of course makes us look like the APM buffs we are!
On September 27 2010 12:12 Krayze wrote: No Game-clock?? L2p!! lol jk S2.
In the first game, you saw the collosi and used roach/hydra to kill them. Was holding off the collosi until you got ultras your game plan the whole time? If you skip the spire stage, is it a good idea to sort of sacrafice your early army to keep his collosi numbers down?
In the second game, you defended with mass speedlings. I've read some strats (originated from Dimaga?) that you expand, drone til about 32, then mass lings, sometimes with +1 melee. Does this work well against Protoss?
One last general question, when do you get your gas at your expansions. It seems that you only get them when your fully saturated on the minerals, looking for confirmation.
Thanks Mr. Artosis, great commentary on the GSL, maybe next time I go to Seoul I'll say hey
Q1. I felt like i had enough units at that time to hurt his army before he had the critical mass, so i hit while expanding to kill sentries, colos, and whatever else i could. That allows me to skip spire units while i am low econ, which is nice.
Q2. Speedlings are nice if you start to engage them near their base to use ffs. I dont like fast +1 tho, theres no great timing for it, prefer ranged up first.
Q3. When going muta i will get them fast. Otherwise i wait till sat yes.
I was interested in the ZvZ because I run into the same problem where my opponent has built 3+ spine crawlers in their base and my planned baneling/ling attack isn't going to work. I saw that you responded to his roaches with your own and that makes sense. Even the expansion makes sense since the rush distances on blistering sands are long and roaches are slow. Why did the game end when it did? Edit: Probably a d/c
If he was going for lair/spire, what would you have done instead?
First off thanks for the zerg fpvods, it will greatly help round out my zerg. And great job with the GSL commentary.
In the first game(terrible cliffhanger!): 1.Why did you opt for the double gas hydra build? Would you ever consider doing a speedling/or even modified oversky to follow up with the cannon break? I feel like it could be possible after seeing the 2 pylon+cannon commitment, and knowing xel has alot of ground to cover for the protoss, to safely cover his expo, and his ramp.
2. What was the point in the changeling drop in the middle of the micro battle at the P front door?
3. Do you think you were too aggressive with the last of your ultras in the tail end of battles? Would it have been a better decision of saving 1-2 ultras instead of hunting down the remaining units?
ZvP on Xel, in the first game you were forced to hydra, in the 2nd game you also choice hydra, is this a play style choice? Map dependent? Would muta openings be possible, and if so, why do you prefer hydras? Or was it just a "flavor of the day" sort of game.
In the ZvZ game, after seeing the roach warren, and no 2nd gas, and a spine, did you ever consider trying to open 1 base muta? Considering your map vision and 1 base mutas mineral-light build(meaning you could still have a roach warren just in case) What advantages or disadvantages did your choice to try to play mirror build but with an economy edge have?
Artosis, on your first video, at around 7:30, did you select all your mineral drones to get an idea of saturation level? I saw you changed your mineral rally point from the nat back to the main after eyeballing the # of drones
On September 27 2010 12:34 AnAngryDingo wrote: in the ZvP on temple, is it standard for you to get so many spine crawlers, or was it a response to a suspected 4 gate?
I did a very mineral heavy build, and thus wouldnt have speed in time to make p waste ffs near his base. This makes ling based defences useless. Thus spines.
On September 27 2010 13:29 ShaperofDreams wrote: Artosis was your nydus use on Lost Temple a standard, or were there specific things in-game that made you decide to do that?
If so, what?
He saw that his opponent was 1) opposite side of the map and 2) fast expanding. I'm 100% sure that his game plan was to abuse the high ground at the opponents natural with nydus hydra while safely taking the islands for himself to pull way ahead in the macro game.
Anyways, I have my own question for you Artosis. In the ZvZ game you saw that he kinda sim city'd his base with a sunken and was going for roaches. At the time you were in his base you had a baneling nest but opted to cancel it. Is there any particular reason why you cancelled it instead of making 6 banelings on the spot and trying to micro them into his mineral line? Also, when is it a viable time to go roaches? I feel like whenever I open up with roaches, it just gives my opponent complete map control (like you had map control on bs). But then whenever I opt to speedling/baneling, I play against these roach users that hit some huge timed attack that own my speedlings even in huge numbers. Not sure if that last one was a question but would love to hear your insight on that.
Anyways, I have my own question for you Artosis. In the ZvZ game you saw that he kinda sim city'd his base with a sunken and was going for roaches. At the time you were in his base you had a baneling nest but opted to cancel it. Is there any particular reason why you cancelled it instead of making 6 banelings on the spot and trying to micro them into his mineral line? Also, when is it a viable time to go roaches? I feel like whenever I open up with roaches, it just gives my opponent complete map control (like you had map control on bs). But then whenever I opt to speedling/baneling, I play against these roach users that hit some huge timed attack that own my speedlings even in huge numbers. Not sure if that last one was a question but would love to hear your insight on that.
I imagine it's because throwing your Banelings at Drones is often a risky play, especially with the sim city. He canceled the Baneling Nest knowing that he was ahead in macro (pulling guys off of gas as well), and kept pumping Drones. He continued to scout with his lings for a Lair, and possible expo. Managing to get an expo up himself, he found that his opponents only option was a roach all-in, getting Roaches out himself to compliment the Lings.
Much fond thankings from a lowly ling. You are most certainly teh oarsome and the (insectoid denizens of the) internets bow(s) down in abject gratitude.
No seriously this is fantasic, at my level anyway this is definitely more helpful than just casts or bare replays. Thank you!
On September 27 2010 12:56 ShazbotZerg wrote: I was interested in the ZvZ because I run into the same problem where my opponent has built 3+ spine crawlers in their base and my planned baneling/ling attack isn't going to work. I saw that you responded to his roaches with your own and that makes sense. Even the expansion makes sense since the rush distances on blistering sands are long and roaches are slow. Why did the game end when it did? Edit: Probably a d/c
If he was going for lair/spire, what would you have done instead?
Yah it was a disc. Vs mutas i will o infestor or queens, depending on whats happened so far.
so the patch is coming by the end of year (in Blizzard time) And it will probably just be a small change like this one. Assuming it keeps going at this rate how long would you say until the game becomes balanced? Also why don't you switch to terran because you played terran in sc1 and I think you would be great. Now back to the games. Why did you cancel your hatch when you saw he got a cannon up? It seems that you held it off well enough so that the cannons couldnt even reach it.
On September 27 2010 12:56 zomgtossrush wrote: First off thanks for the zerg fpvods, it will greatly help round out my zerg. And great job with the GSL commentary.
In the first game(terrible cliffhanger!): 1.Why did you opt for the double gas hydra build? Would you ever consider doing a speedling/or even modified oversky to follow up with the cannon break? I feel like it could be possible after seeing the 2 pylon+cannon commitment, and knowing xel has alot of ground to cover for the protoss, to safely cover his expo, and his ramp.
2. What was the point in the changeling drop in the middle of the micro battle at the P front door?
3. Do you think you were too aggressive with the last of your ultras in the tail end of battles? Would it have been a better decision of saving 1-2 ultras instead of hunting down the remaining units?
ZvP on Xel, in the first game you were forced to hydra, in the 2nd game you also choice hydra, is this a play style choice? Map dependent? Would muta openings be possible, and if so, why do you prefer hydras? Or was it just a "flavor of the day" sort of game.
In the ZvZ game, after seeing the roach warren, and no 2nd gas, and a spine, did you ever consider trying to open 1 base muta? Considering your map vision and 1 base mutas mineral-light build(meaning you could still have a roach warren just in case) What advantages or disadvantages did your choice to try to play mirror build but with an economy edge have?
Thanks again!
Q1. Hydra is pretty safe as a followup. Lings get kinda owned by lots of sentries, so i sometimes avoid them. Im still trying out new stuff vs cannon tho. Hydra just seems safest atm.
Q2. If you put a changeling in at that time, he may not see it and u will be able to watch him after the battle.
Q3. Ya, retarded of me to chase there.
Q4. Hydra is really safe early, it stops anything. Muta openings are gamble gamble.
Q5. 1 base muta, and muta overall, is bad if countered correctly. Mirror build with better eco is free win if played correctly.
On September 27 2010 13:17 GaussWaffle wrote: Artosis, on your first video, at around 7:30, did you select all your mineral drones to get an idea of saturation level? I saw you changed your mineral rally point from the nat back to the main after eyeballing the # of drones
yes, i often check the saturation in that way at all my bases.
On September 27 2010 13:29 ShaperofDreams wrote: Artosis was your nydus use on Lost Temple a standard, or were there specific things in-game that made you decide to do that?
If so, what?
When i watched TheWinD and Zenio from oGs do this style in GSL, i saw a lot of good things about it, but also saw tons of things they did wrong in the follow ups, so i'm playing around with it now to make it into something really tight if possible.
On September 27 2010 13:29 ShaperofDreams wrote: Artosis was your nydus use on Lost Temple a standard, or were there specific things in-game that made you decide to do that?
If so, what?
He saw that his opponent was 1) opposite side of the map and 2) fast expanding. I'm 100% sure that his game plan was to abuse the high ground at the opponents natural with nydus hydra while safely taking the islands for himself to pull way ahead in the macro game.
Anyways, I have my own question for you Artosis. In the ZvZ game you saw that he kinda sim city'd his base with a sunken and was going for roaches. At the time you were in his base you had a baneling nest but opted to cancel it. Is there any particular reason why you cancelled it instead of making 6 banelings on the spot and trying to micro them into his mineral line? Also, when is it a viable time to go roaches? I feel like whenever I open up with roaches, it just gives my opponent complete map control (like you had map control on bs). But then whenever I opt to speedling/baneling, I play against these roach users that hit some huge timed attack that own my speedlings even in huge numbers. Not sure if that last one was a question but would love to hear your insight on that.
1 base roach openings are pretty random/allinish as they give up map control so harshly. if you continue on the baneling route vs this, it plays into the roach user's hands. they are going roach to beat ling/bane. instead, if you react like me, you will almost never lose to it. econ into roach after speedlings vs a 1 base roach user gives you map control, econ advantage, scouting advantage, etc.
On September 27 2010 15:18 illumination wrote: so the patch is coming by the end of year (in Blizzard time) And it will probably just be a small change like this one. Assuming it keeps going at this rate how long would you say until the game becomes balanced? Also why don't you switch to terran because you played terran in sc1 and I think you would be great. Now back to the games. Why did you cancel your hatch when you saw he got a cannon up? It seems that you held it off well enough so that the cannons couldnt even reach it.
I don't know how long until the game will be balanced. To be truthful, SC1 wasn't totally balanced, and also a lot of balance has to do with the maps. Most of our maps in SC2 right now are very imbalanced.
I don't want to play terran in this game. i like to play a reactive, macro based race. Terran was that in SC1 for the most part, in SC2 tho they play completely differently. zerg fits me better and i find it more fun.
i had to cancel the hatch, i didn't want to lose it. im also practicing followups to getting cannoned in right now, so it was a good opportunity.
This might be off topic, but seems like the correct place to ask.
How was the level of competition at the GSL qualifiers?Tlo is quoted as saying people were "fucking terrible" . is that because he is just that amazing and is putting people down, or were there really bad players?
I am currently a pretty good random player, being seduced into picking one race to get me to where you the big boys are, and it would be cool to know if i was at least within shot of playing in tournaments(and GSL).
On September 27 2010 16:20 zomgtossrush wrote: This might be off topic, but seems like the correct place to ask.
How was the level of competition at the GSL qualifiers?Tlo is quoted as saying people were "fucking terrible" . is that because he is just that amazing and is putting people down, or were there really bad players?
I am currently a pretty good random player, being seduced into picking one race to get me to where you the big boys are, and it would be cool to know if i was at least within shot of playing in tournaments(and GSL).
Q1. There were a lot of really bad players. With ~2,000 people entering, some brackets were easy as pie, others had multiple progamers in them. GSL will continue to get harder and harder, no doubt. But always, many players will be "bad" in a 2,000 person field.
How do you approach ZvT on Lost Temple? I do the standard opening with speedlings, but drone up and get a 2nd queen while expanding so i'm safe vs reapers or early hellions. However if he does a thor drop, you most times lose the hatch. Is leaving 1/2 drones in gas after 14 gas 14 pool -> speed good for getting a fast lair which leads to mutas to gain some semblence of map control? Like, you don't need to go all out gas, but just get the lair in case?
wait what I just realized watching this that zergs go 9 overlord? I've been going 10 ovie since no one went 8 overlord in bw...
This is like the time when I realized that in bw zvp you go 13 third hatch instead of 15 so you get up your gas up much quicker so you don't lose so many overlords to corsairs. >_<
On September 27 2010 16:35 Camlito wrote: How do you approach ZvT on Lost Temple? I do the standard opening with speedlings, but drone up and get a 2nd queen while expanding so i'm safe vs reapers or early hellions. However if he does a thor drop, you most times lose the hatch. Is leaving 1/2 drones in gas after 14 gas 14 pool -> speed good for getting a fast lair which leads to mutas to gain some semblence of map control? Like, you don't need to go all out gas, but just get the lair in case?
ZvT on LT is weird. Right now im toying with various 14 hatchery builds. Sometimes I go 1 base Mutalisk. No 100% plan on the map, as Terran should be able to crush whatever you do (tank drop vs fast expand, anti 1base muta vs non fast expand.)
I am SO happy to see this :D Thank you so much Artosis.
I have one question about they way that you macro though. When you go back to vomit larvae, how do you toggle between hatcheries? Do you press backspace (which I find extremely inconvenient because its on the other side of the keyboard, requiring me to reposition my hand). Do you? Use bindings only for the two hatches and then just manually go to the other two? I personally have my queens on "4" and then click on the minimap... which isn't fast enough. Please help me out with some pro tips :D
Thank you thank you thank you!!!! I have such a hard time with ZvP on X'NC specifically. The expo is so hard to defend!!! I'm going watch all these videos for sure.
Wow, game 2 shows how Ultralisks really are Dragoons with down syndrome.
In the last game you were going Brood Lords vs. the protoss ball, was that influenced by games 1 and 2? If not, what made you choose lords over ultras?
On September 27 2010 23:35 Whakkah wrote: I am SO happy to see this :D Thank you so much Artosis.
I have one question about they way that you macro though. When you go back to vomit larvae, how do you toggle between hatcheries? Do you press backspace (which I find extremely inconvenient because its on the other side of the keyboard, requiring me to reposition my hand). Do you? Use bindings only for the two hatches and then just manually go to the other two? I personally have my queens on "4" and then click on the minimap... which isn't fast enough. Please help me out with some pro tips :D
Personally, I have hatches on 4,5,6,7,8, and beyond that I always have them all hotkeyed to 0 (and also 9 if I'm not using multiple nydus worms.) I press 44, 55, 66, 77, 88, to center hatches, then inject.
My way isn't the best #1 way for fast macro, but it is very good for crisis management, and very comfortable for me.
On September 28 2010 05:14 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Wow, game 2 shows how Ultralisks really are Dragoons with down syndrome.
In the last game you were going Brood Lords vs. the protoss ball, was that influenced by games 1 and 2? If not, what made you choose lords over ultras?
I was just preparing to make Broods if needed. They definitely were not that game. Normally you will go Broods over ultras vs an Immortal/Zealot/HT/Stalker based army late game, which is the hardest composition to stop at that point. Ultras are better to break the first Colossus based army in the late game.
On September 27 2010 12:04 GeMan wrote: I love ya Artosis and love watching you play and watching your replays. But man I am spoiled by 720p vods. These low quality ones are hard to watch sometimes.
@Kazeyonoma Generally pros say it gets the warmed up and ready for the intense macro later in the game.
ditto.
thx for the vids, FOV and caliber of play is fantastic.
These are great. Thank you much Artosis. Please keep them coming, this is a great way to learn. It looks like people are super aggressive on the Asian server, do you have a US account?
Also, keep up the good work on the GLS commentating.
Thanks, Artosis. These are really good. Hope you keep doing them. Some questions:
- Is there a reason you favor ultralisks to counter colossi-centric builds instead of getting a handful of corruptors to deal with them? The hive+ultra den investment seem to give Protoss time to catch up in terms of number of units.
- On small maps/close positions vs a normal forge FE (without being pylon blocked at the ramp) or a 1 gate FE, I feel there is a timing window ripe for a 2 hatch hydra bust, but I haven't really seen this outside of Idra vs orb (Lost Temple) in HDH#1. Is there no merit to this strategy? A lot of times I will see zergs add a roach warren and build some roaches rather than teching straight to hydras. Are lings not enough to hold off a 1 gate FE?
- Wow thanks Artosis, the fact that your doing this without even being asked or anything. I simply cannot thank you enough. - The only thing that could make this any more awesome is if the VODs were a higher quality. :D
On September 28 2010 11:38 vakiha wrote: Thanks, Artosis. These are really good. Hope you keep doing them. Some questions:
- Is there a reason you favor ultralisks to counter colossi-centric builds instead of getting a handful of corruptors to deal with them? The hive+ultra den investment seem to give Protoss time to catch up in terms of number of units.
- On small maps/close positions vs a normal forge FE (without being pylon blocked at the ramp) or a 1 gate FE, I feel there is a timing window ripe for a 2 hatch hydra bust, but I haven't really seen this outside of Idra vs orb (Lost Temple) in HDH#1. Is there no merit to this strategy? A lot of times I will see zergs add a roach warren and build some roaches rather than teching straight to hydras. Are lings not enough to hold off a 1 gate FE?
Q1. Corrupters I do use sometimes vs Colossus builds. It can be quite hard to make the exact right amount, and they are pretty useless vs anything else. Definitely not a finisher, just a "keep me alive for now" unit. Vs Stalker/Colossus, Ultras are far more effective.
Q2. I almost feel like there is no timing to bust a protoss if he plays right. Starving seems to work far, far better. HDH#1 was during phase 1 of the beta, and early in phase 1 at that. Anythign seen there can't really be sited. Also, IdrA vs Orb is about the largest mismatch in skill possible. Lings are plenty to hold off 1 gate certainly.
Thanks Artosis! Great videos, these are really helpful because they give me a chance to self-analyze as I go. Also, I can't "cheat" and see what the other player is doing, so it feels more like playing than watching a replay.
Q about G1- Why no infestors to fungal and support the ultras? Not much of a zergling mix in either. Just not your favorite unit, or do you think the ultra/roach/hydra is a bit stronger vs P's mix in that game?
On September 28 2010 15:04 airety wrote: Thanks Artosis! Great videos, these are really helpful because they give me a chance to self-analyze as I go. Also, I can't "cheat" and see what the other player is doing, so it feels more like playing than watching a replay.
Q about G1- Why no infestors to fungal and support the ultras? Not much of a zergling mix in either. Just not your favorite unit, or do you think the ultra/roach/hydra is a bit stronger vs P's mix in that game?
its simply too gas intensive that early to go infestors with the ultras.
I really liked your build on LT w the nydus cliff abuse. Can you go into more detail about the goals of that strategy and what do you do if the hydra/roach play doesnt work?
On September 28 2010 15:26 XXXSmOke wrote: I really liked your build on LT w the nydus cliff abuse. Can you go into more detail about the goals of that strategy and what do you do if the hydra/roach play doesnt work?
Its something new that I'm working on. Investing in a Nydus worm to control a couple mineral patches as well as stop a gyser is, in itself, worth it. Especially when you consider you can take a free 3rd base at the island with the worm. When you add in that sometimes you get some buildings from the cliff with your hydras, and they must invest in certain units to break your hold on their ledge, it just becomes a great deal. If you expand reasonably timed with this, as well as macro correctly, Roach/Hydra may be able to hold the counter almost no matter what, but I'm still testing that. I may switch it into Hydra/Corrupter/Ling as I get to practice it more and work out the kinks.
Just put up the second batch on the opening post. Had ridiculous amount of discs, but got internet fixed, so following batches will be much better, with a better choice of games put up, as opposed to just "whatever didn't disc for at least 7 minutes".
Loving the ZvZ vids i'm hoping learning from you will help me relieve my hate of the matchup.
What would you have done differently in the 2nd ZvZ did the failed muta tech mean you were too far behind ? I seem to always end up in this situation i've been trying banes instead of infestors but with the same effect of eventually getting overrun.
Hey Artosis, thanks for posting these videos, they are an extremely valuable learning tool for me, and I imagine others like me.
I have two questions, first.. In ZvT, Mutaling Baneling seems to be the best unit composition vs most T builds. What exceptions are there to this i.e. What tells you *not* to get mutaling/bling and what should you get instead?
Also, I've been trying to use a two-base muta build against my T opponents recently, but have been having trouble with knowing when to start making less drones and more Zerglings and have been roflstomped by 3rax builds a couple of times. This may be just because I am executing my build poorly and I should have mutas by then..? but even if I scout the 3rax when I sac my proverlord (I know witty right?) generally get steam-rolled before I can morph a bling nest and get out enough to defend.
I am like 1.1k Platinum or something, which I understand is a completely different world to diamond. If you answer is simply "better mechanics" I completely accept that. Thanks.
So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings?
On September 28 2010 21:03 Mbon wrote: Hey Artosis, thanks for posting these videos, they are an extremely valuable learning tool for me, and I imagine others like me.
I have two questions, first.. In ZvT, Mutaling Baneling seems to be the best unit composition vs most T builds. What exceptions are there to this i.e. What tells you *not* to get mutaling/bling and what should you get instead?
Also, I've been trying to use a two-base muta build against my T opponents recently, but have been having trouble with knowing when to start making less drones and more Zerglings and have been roflstomped by 3rax builds a couple of times. This may be just because I am executing my build poorly and I should have mutas by then..? but even if I scout the 3rax when I sac my proverlord (I know witty right?) generally get steam-rolled before I can morph a bling nest and get out enough to defend.
I am like 1.1k Platinum or something, which I understand is a completely different world to diamond. If you answer is simply "better mechanics" I completely accept that. Thanks.
Q1. Thor timing pushes and mech are both bad choices for muta ling bane.
Q2. Vs 3 rax timing, u do need ling bane instead of mutas. If its 1 base just make a ridiculous amnt of lings, dont even think about drones. Threaten runbyes to stall t while you make ur force.
On September 28 2010 17:32 Paddywan wrote: Loving the ZvZ vids i'm hoping learning from you will help me relieve my hate of the matchup.
What would you have done differently in the 2nd ZvZ did the failed muta tech mean you were too far behind ? I seem to always end up in this situation i've been trying banes instead of infestors but with the same effect of eventually getting overrun.
I messed up a bit in that game tbh... Banes arent needed. If u go mutas u simply must do more with them.
On September 28 2010 21:30 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote: So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings?
Every zerg should practice 14gas 13pool every game zvz. It can deal with everything, and will teach u zvz eventually.
I time things based on what i see in zvz, so id need more direct questions to fully explain anything.
Also, just fyi, infestor roach hydra is the ultimate late-mid game army. Properly timed and controlled it beats all.
On September 28 2010 21:30 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote: So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings?
Every zerg should practice 14gas 13pool every game zvz. It can deal with everything, and will teach u zvz eventually.
I time things based on what i see in zvz, so id need more direct questions to fully explain anything.
Also, just fyi, infestor roach hydra is the ultimate late-mid game army. Properly timed and controlled it beats all.
14gas 13 pool is my build for T and Z but against Zerg how do you deal with large amounts of early Zerglings? Are Baneling necessary or can they be skipped?
Also, how are your mouse strokes so smooth and accurate?
On September 27 2010 11:00 Rahlekk wrote: This is awesome, thanks a bunch. (Side note: I will never get why people mass click when it seems just one would suffice.)
Sometimes its done to make sure a command gets through as you switch between things so fast the better you get that single click commands might get missed due to you switching between groups of things so fast.
Also to keep your apm up to be used to high apm requirements of later game.
Hey Artosis, hope you don't mind a suggestion: Record a "commentary" over your own vods. That way you won't have to answer so many damn questions, and you get to practice commentating (not that you need it but you said you were focusing on it). It's a win-win the only downside is that it would take longer of course.
On September 28 2010 21:30 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote: So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings?
Every zerg should practice 14gas 13pool every game zvz. It can deal with everything, and will teach u zvz eventually.
I time things based on what i see in zvz, so id need more direct questions to fully explain anything.
Also, just fyi, infestor roach hydra is the ultimate late-mid game army. Properly timed and controlled it beats all.
How do you handle early (6 or 7) pools with this build? On some longer rush distances I know your lings will pop out right as their lings come in, but on say close position 4p maps (LT or DQ especially) they seem to arrive significantly sooner than your lings popping. Should I just be pulling my drones off creep and running them around since ling and drone speed is close to equal off creep? What about the spine crawler(s) on the 7 pool in that situation?
This isn't much about the game, I posted it as a comment on Youtube but not sure you read those so I'm going to repost it here.
Hey Artosis, I've been wondering how well is yours/IdrA's/Tasteless' Korean? Do you guys just know the basics to get around or a bit more to have fluent conversations? I am wondering the progress of your years being there a little over 2 years.
Also thanks for being such a bad ass caster, I love all your jokes they make it hard to watch the game though ahaha! A fruit dealer has to sell more bananas to banana farmers!
On September 28 2010 21:03 Mbon wrote: Hey Artosis, thanks for posting these videos, they are an extremely valuable learning tool for me, and I imagine others like me.
I have two questions, first.. In ZvT, Mutaling Baneling seems to be the best unit composition vs most T builds. What exceptions are there to this i.e. What tells you *not* to get mutaling/bling and what should you get instead?
Also, I've been trying to use a two-base muta build against my T opponents recently, but have been having trouble with knowing when to start making less drones and more Zerglings and have been roflstomped by 3rax builds a couple of times. This may be just because I am executing my build poorly and I should have mutas by then..? but even if I scout the 3rax when I sac my proverlord (I know witty right?) generally get steam-rolled before I can morph a bling nest and get out enough to defend.
I am like 1.1k Platinum or something, which I understand is a completely different world to diamond. If you answer is simply "better mechanics" I completely accept that. Thanks.
Q1. Thor timing pushes and mech are both bad choices for muta ling bane.
Q2. Vs 3 rax timing, u do need ling bane instead of mutas. If its 1 base just make a ridiculous amnt of lings, dont even think about drones. Threaten runbyes to stall t while you make ur force.
On September 28 2010 21:30 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote: So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings?
Every zerg should practice 14gas 13pool every game zvz. It can deal with everything, and will teach u zvz eventually.
I time things based on what i see in zvz, so id need more direct questions to fully explain anything.
Also, just fyi, infestor roach hydra is the ultimate late-mid game army. Properly timed and controlled it beats all.
How do you handle early (6 or 7) pools with this build? On some longer rush distances I know your lings will pop out right as their lings come in, but on say close position 4p maps they seem to arrive significantly sooner. Should I just be pulling my drones off creep and running them around since ling and drone speed is close to equal off creep? What about the spine crawler(s) on the 7 pool in that situation?
Disclaimer: I'm not actually Artosis.
Dance your drones until lings pop. If you build is good you'll have lings and a queen on the way. Use the gaps in the mineral lines as funnels while you're waiting for your own lings. Oh and don't bother with gas. Hell cancle the extractor if you can to get an extra drone to fight with.
If he builds a spine crawler pre-emptively (while his lings are still eggs), send 2 drones to attack it, this'll keep the spines health at almost the exact health it was when you started attacking it, so with good reaction time it'll stay at like 50 hp.
When your lings pop bring every single drone and you'll be fine.
Do you feel like 15 expand is doable versus T, even on maps with less exposed naturals? My reaction with drones to early T pressure when I do this is probably off, but sometimes it feels like I am just giving myself a BO loss if the opponent early raxs or does any kind of proxy play and I 15 hatch.
Sick juke at 10:46 on ZvP vs 재즈 2 - batch 1. He still blocked you with a forcefield with his ninja Korean reflexes but against my scrubby opponents that will do wonders.
On September 29 2010 02:40 TheReward wrote: Do you feel like 15 expand is doable versus T, even on maps with less exposed naturals? My reaction with drones to early T pressure when I do this is probably off, but sometimes it feels like I am just giving myself a BO loss if the opponent early raxs or does any kind of proxy play and I 15 hatch.
Artosis, cant thank you enough. Im a huge fan keep up the good work. I just wanted to re-point out this question because I also seek the answer to this. Ive noticed that a 15hatch into 14pool has been popular with the Koreans even before the latest patch. I noticed players like Cella going for a 15 hatch vs both T and P. Another example was Cool/Fruitdealer the other day in his 2nd game vs maka he went 15hatch and was able to stop the 2gate. Do you think 15 hatch is alot more viable now against both T and P? Could you give a general guideline to help in deciding wether or not to go for a 15 hatch. Obviously vs Proxy or close rush positions on maps it becomes bad.
And my last question is about another Korean style. This isnt so much vs Protoss but when against terran and they go 15hatch, I notice alot of times they will skip ling speed untill later and just tech to roaches. What are your thoughts on this style?
Hey Artosis, just wanted to first say your absolutely amazing and I'm going to learn so much from this so thank you so much. <3
But I also had some questions if you feel like answering. 1..From what I saw in your zvz's, you didn't really get in a drone scout to see if they did a really early pool(etc. 6 pool). I've been doing 14 gas 14 pool, does 14 pool 13 gas manage to defend it well? 2.I saw you going ling baneling in those two-three zvz replays(I've been struggling very much with zvz recently :p), yet have noticed an increasing trend in roach-hydra-infestor. I really dislike the 'randomness' of ling banelings, and have been seeking a new build. Do you believe the fast roach into roach hydra infestor is the way to go? If you could make a new video of you doing it against ling bling that would be super nice too, but you don't have to.
Thank you for the iniatiative. It's funny, Zergs really like to stick together and seem like some sort of support group, as seem here and at the "Zerg help me thread".
However, unless you're commentating your matches or offering insight on your actions by explaining here, I see little point on doing this, instead of just providing a replay pack as you did at the end of beta. With the new feature of player view through replays, I can get an instant FP"Vod" of FruitSeller, or anyone for that matter, and also have the advantage of being able to compare timings, and other cool stuff through the spectator tools. Also, this would stop this senseless QQ on graphics settings.
I actually prefer the FPVODs over replays (both would probably be the best).
The main thing is you don't need SC2 to watch a youtube video and while replays are nice, seeing a game played from the ingame player perspective without the replay interface really makes a difference to me. Dunno why, it just seems that way.
Anyways, who does it really hurt? I like the variation from the usual replay packs that get posted (which I hardly ever get to watch as you need SC2 on the computer to actually watch them).
On September 29 2010 08:18 phfantunes wrote: Thank you for the iniatiative. It's funny, Zergs really like to stick together and seem like some sort of support group, as seem here and at the "Zerg help me thread".
Obviously the hive mentality, duh.
Anyhow, it would be beneficial to make the videos have higher resoloution, just so we can see resource and supply counts D: but I don't really want to look the horse in the mouth, these are awesome already.
On September 29 2010 02:36 wrags wrote: @artosis: could you please post the replays of these games as well?
I feel like i have been handed a piece of cake in one hand but still am wanting some icecream in the other but i would really love another rep pack soon ( i believe you gave one not to long ago if i am not mistaken)
On September 28 2010 21:30 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote: So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings?
Every zerg should practice 14gas 13pool every game zvz. It can deal with everything, and will teach u zvz eventually.
I time things based on what i see in zvz, so id need more direct questions to fully explain anything.
Also, just fyi, infestor roach hydra is the ultimate late-mid game army. Properly timed and controlled it beats all.
14gas 13 pool is my build for T and Z but against Zerg how do you deal with large amounts of early Zerglings? Are Baneling necessary or can they be skipped?
Also, how are your mouse strokes so smooth and accurate?
On September 28 2010 21:30 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote: So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings?
Every zerg should practice 14gas 13pool every game zvz. It can deal with everything, and will teach u zvz eventually.
I time things based on what i see in zvz, so id need more direct questions to fully explain anything.
Also, just fyi, infestor roach hydra is the ultimate late-mid game army. Properly timed and controlled it beats all.
How do you handle early (6 or 7) pools with this build? On some longer rush distances I know your lings will pop out right as their lings come in, but on say close position 4p maps (LT or DQ especially) they seem to arrive significantly sooner than your lings popping. Should I just be pulling my drones off creep and running them around since ling and drone speed is close to equal off creep? What about the spine crawler(s) on the 7 pool in that situation?
Early pools are only scary if they also use spine crawlers. In those situations you have to dance drones non-stop, alternating spines and lings. you win some and you lose some. once you become quite good at it, you will eventually win more than lose vs this strategy, in my experience.
On September 28 2010 23:37 Laggy wrote: This isn't much about the game, I posted it as a comment on Youtube but not sure you read those so I'm going to repost it here.
Hey Artosis, I've been wondering how well is yours/IdrA's/Tasteless' Korean? Do you guys just know the basics to get around or a bit more to have fluent conversations? I am wondering the progress of your years being there a little over 2 years.
Also thanks for being such a bad ass caster, I love all your jokes they make it hard to watch the game though ahaha! A fruit dealer has to sell more bananas to banana farmers!
Our Korean is enough to live here on and get around, but we can only have verrrrrry basic conversations.
On September 29 2010 02:40 TheReward wrote: Do you feel like 15 expand is doable versus T, even on maps with less exposed naturals? My reaction with drones to early T pressure when I do this is probably off, but sometimes it feels like I am just giving myself a BO loss if the opponent early raxs or does any kind of proxy play and I 15 hatch.
hatchery first is still risky. proxy rax or rax before depot will still kill it unless you way outmicro the guy. i'm doing it a lot right now just because i want to test how well i can defend these things, and what i can get away with fully.
On September 29 2010 02:40 TheReward wrote: Do you feel like 15 expand is doable versus T, even on maps with less exposed naturals? My reaction with drones to early T pressure when I do this is probably off, but sometimes it feels like I am just giving myself a BO loss if the opponent early raxs or does any kind of proxy play and I 15 hatch.
Artosis, cant thank you enough. Im a huge fan keep up the good work. I just wanted to re-point out this question because I also seek the answer to this. Ive noticed that a 15hatch into 14pool has been popular with the Koreans even before the latest patch. I noticed players like Cella going for a 15 hatch vs both T and P. Another example was Cool/Fruitdealer the other day in his 2nd game vs maka he went 15hatch and was able to stop the 2gate. Do you think 15 hatch is alot more viable now against both T and P? Could you give a general guideline to help in deciding wether or not to go for a 15 hatch. Obviously vs Proxy or close rush positions on maps it becomes bad.
And my last question is about another Korean style. This isnt so much vs Protoss but when against terran and they go 15hatch, I notice alot of times they will skip ling speed untill later and just tech to roaches. What are your thoughts on this style?
Thank you
Q1. Going for hatch first, especially before the patch, is just a risky percentage play. Its definitely more doable right now than before, but again, if they chose the right build order, you lose. Choosing it is just like any other strategy you might choose in a tournament. Do you feel the rewards outweigh the risks? Unless you scout very fast, or luckily see him with your overlord in close positions, its just a blind choice.
Q2. I don't really care for roach play early on, it costs a ridiculous amount of minerals to do. The reasoning behind it pre-patch was definitely because ling speed would be too slow to stop reapers with. Now I'm unsure if its something people want to do anymore.
On September 29 2010 05:50 Pandain wrote: Hey Artosis, just wanted to first say your absolutely amazing and I'm going to learn so much from this so thank you so much. <3
But I also had some questions if you feel like answering. 1..From what I saw in your zvz's, you didn't really get in a drone scout to see if they did a really early pool(etc. 6 pool). I've been doing 14 gas 14 pool, does 14 pool 13 gas manage to defend it well? 2.I saw you going ling baneling in those two-three zvz replays(I've been struggling very much with zvz recently :p), yet have noticed an increasing trend in roach-hydra-infestor. I really dislike the 'randomness' of ling banelings, and have been seeking a new build. Do you believe the fast roach into roach hydra infestor is the way to go? If you could make a new video of you doing it against ling bling that would be super nice too, but you don't have to.
Q1. I go 14gas 13pool, and its pretty defendable if you control right. 14pool 13gas would definitely defend it.
Q2. Ling/Baneling becomes much less random at high levels. Its the best opening and can transition into anything you want normally. roach/hydra/infestor is the best unit composition (aside from ridiculous hive based comps..). i don't suggest going roach into it, you lose complete mobility and have no real good way to scout.
I know this is a really general question, but what would be your "cookie cutter" build against all the three races, when they go just a normal build? (If you have those.)
On September 29 2010 12:51 Rahlekk wrote: I know this is a really general question, but what would be your "cookie cutter" build against all the three races, when they go just a normal build? (If you have those.)
atm i like muta opening vs terran, hydra into roach/hydra/corrupter into ultra vs protoss, and banelings into countering my opponents ridiculously retarded strategy vs zerg.
I just want to say that these are just beautiful. I found so educational and entretaining to see how you deal preventively in every game with several (if not all) of the cheeses that I've suffered so far. It's fun to see the scars on your gameplay. The practice time and emotional memory ( In my case it's emotional because, dear god if it hurts to get your lategame tackled by a hidden pylon) are really self-evident.
And this brings me to my question. It's quite easy to see that Zerg has large back. It's a great surface of weakpoints. Behind us, where is hard to see and feel. A surface that each game we must cover trough scouting, neat timings and solid buildorders and good and quick responses. If you agree with the previous statement:
Which abnromalities ( beeing a strange push timming, a picky unit comp, a hidden structure, a particular cheese ) are the ones that really worry you, and if forgotten pretty much guarantee that you'll loose the game? Im reffering to the kind of smelly things that when you do scout but a little late, make you really feel: "Ok, I'm pretty much f'cked up."
I think it would really help everyone to see your opinion on what things are game changing. Probably seeing your opinion is enough to have something to remember. It's even a memotechnique in itself.
On September 29 2010 13:03 gREIFOCs wrote: I just want to say that these are just beautiful. I found so educational and entretaining to see how you deal preventively in every game with several (if not all) of the cheeses that I've suffered so far. It's fun to see the scars on your gameplay. The practice time and emotional memory ( In my case it's emotional because, dear god if it hurts to get your lategame tackled by a hidden pylon) are really self-evident.
And this brings me to my question. It's quite easy to see that Zerg has large back. It's a great surface of weakpoints. Behind us, where is hard to see and feel. A surface that each game we must cover trough scouting, neat timings and solid buildorders and good and quick responses. If you agree with the previous statement:
Which abnromalities ( beeing a strange push timming, a picky unit comp, a hidden structure, a particular cheese ) are the ones that really worry you, and if forgotten pretty much guarantee that you'll loose the game? Im reffering to the kind of smelly things that when you do scout but a little late, make you really feel: "Ok, I'm pretty much f'cked up."
I think it would really help everyone to see your opinion on what things are game changing. Probably seeing your opinion is enough to have something to remember. It's even a memotechnique in itself.
Cloaked banshees. They are the ultimate wrench which can be thrown into your game plan.
UPDATE!!: Due to popular demand, tomorrow I will be releasing some strategic commentary VODs instead of FPVODs. I'll still do some FPVOD stuff though, and feel out what people like better to learn from. Also, I will release a replay pack when I get some time to play a bunch of games.
On September 29 2010 15:35 Artosis wrote: UPDATE!!: Due to popular demand, tomorrow I will be releasing some strategic commentary VODs instead of FPVODs. I'll still do some FPVOD stuff though, and feel out what people like better to learn from. Also, I will release a replay pack when I get some time to play a bunch of games.
On September 29 2010 15:35 Artosis wrote: UPDATE!!: Due to popular demand, tomorrow I will be releasing some strategic commentary VODs instead of FPVODs. I'll still do some FPVOD stuff though, and feel out what people like better to learn from. Also, I will release a replay pack when I get some time to play a bunch of games.
Against the protoss army in game 3 of batch 3 on DQ do you think there is any other way to engage that could have been better? What is the general strategy you try to follow while engaging a colossi/ gateway army mid-late game?
In regards to a couple of the unit-specific upgrades:
I've noticed you often delay hydra range, is there a particular trigger for when this is important (possibly extent of creep spread and area you're defending) or done more by feel?
Also, seems you rarely get the energy upgrade for infestors early. I'm curious about weighing the gas cost to get them energy faster for faster fungals vs getting additional units produced (since, with practice, you can get your first few infestors 'ready' to fungal more quickly by timing them to hit right as the upgrade finishes rather than building them and waiting for the energy to charge).
Edit: Additional random thought: is there a place for baneling speed in ZvZ or do you consider banes (mostly) exclusive to the early game and ineffective later?
Hi, Artosis, I loved your first strategic commentary video, and that video actually helped me out a ton when i was starting out, cant wait for more of those , i was wondering about a game from batch 3 against chief on delta quadrant PvZ, you chose to expand to the far away 8 oclock expansion instead of your backdoor expansion, is this because pylon warp ins in the back of the base are so problematic? or did you just hope to keep it hidden from him?
On September 29 2010 16:43 ProperOne wrote: Against the protoss army in game 3 of batch 3 on DQ do you think there is any other way to engage that could have been better? What is the general strategy you try to follow while engaging a colossi/ gateway army mid-late game?
Q1. On the Delta Quadrant game, I was actually trying to bust him with Hydra, but was then forced into Roach. It wasn't strong strategical play from me, so I lost. Just kinda testing some various stuff.
Q2. Gotta spread stuff out. Also have to engage them 3-4 fake times before the real battle if possible, to use up FFs.
On September 29 2010 16:55 Everhate wrote: In regards to a couple of the unit-specific upgrades:
I've noticed you often delay hydra range, is there a particular trigger for when this is important (possibly extent of creep spread and area you're defending) or done more by feel?
Also, seems you rarely get the energy upgrade for infestors early. I'm curious about weighing the gas cost to get them energy faster for faster fungals vs getting additional units produced (since, with practice, you can get your first few infestors 'ready' to fungal more quickly by timing them to hit right as the upgrade finishes rather than building them and waiting for the energy to charge).
Edit: Additional random thought: is there a place for baneling speed in ZvZ or do you consider banes (mostly) exclusive to the early game and ineffective later?
Q1. The Hydra range upgrade I base upon when I think there will be an engagement. If its soon, I don't get it so that I can have more hydras. If I have time, I get it.
Q2. If I'm planning on going Infestors, I will always get the energy upgrade before the Infestors. 9 times out of 10 when I go infestors i will do that.
Q3. Yes, absolutely. If you actually decide to go Ling/Bane/Muta vs a ground based army, you need bane speed. Also, I've used it when I overextend with ling/bane vs someone going mutalisk, as a last resort allin. Its surprisingly effective in that way.
On September 29 2010 17:41 RedHelix wrote: Hi, Artosis, I loved your first strategic commentary video, and that video actually helped me out a ton when i was starting out, cant wait for more of those , i was wondering about a game from batch 3 against chief on delta quadrant PvZ, you chose to expand to the far away 8 oclock expansion instead of your backdoor expansion, is this because pylon warp ins in the back of the base are so problematic? or did you just hope to keep it hidden from him?
My original plan was to bust him before a 3rd base. When that didn't work, I was still constantly pressuring, so I didn't have time to go back and kill the rocks. Thus, I expanded to another main. That game was more me testing stuff, and shouldn't really be followed strategically.
Wowow sir, this was my first time seeing such great Zerg micro ^^ watching you survive this 4gate just barely and then pull back very well..awesome.
e-- oh man, if you do strategic commentaries that would be sick. I do love FPVod just to watch micro and speed/accuracy though, so I can see what to shoot for =]]]
I have more a general question: do you really think it's worth it to switch to roaches really late? I mean, in all games v P you have started off with a FE, took 2 gas, got lair and then went ling/hydra. Once you see colossi you then add roaches, but I feel that roaches don'T really work well vs colossi, because their range is simply to small.
Do you think sticking to T1 units is good in this situation, or do you think it's better to go spire tech or hive& ultras?
I have a question, not regarding the VODs, hope that's ok. Since you're casting the GSL and have a much better understanding of the game, I was hoping if you could share some insight on whatthefuck makes Cool such a great player. Each of his game is just better than the previous one, he's crushing people with ease and no matter what you throw at him, he deflects it and is still ages ahead.
Why is this? He has regular APM, ranging the 100, he labels himself lazy and even left oGs due to the training routine, and he also says his micro is poor. Why is he so much more successful than everyone, even people who probably practice twice as hard? Is there some fundamental game mechanic or Zerg element I'm missing and should focus on? Do you label his skills as gamesense, macro, decision making, wtf do you call that!?
I hope some of this post made sense, I'm shaky because of several Zerggasms.
I'm having some trouble in ZvZ when my opponent does hatch before his pool and defends with spine crawlers. The thing is that if I try to go and kill him, he just makes some more defence and wins. Also if I try to go for economy then his ahead because of his fast hatch. If I do fast mutas I will lose because he just makes few spores. I really don't know what I should do. What you do when you see fast hatch?
Thanks a ton for the videos Artosis. I prefer watching vods in full screen and could not help but wonder something. Do you have any way to upload at a higher resolution? 720 or 1080p? Makes everything a lot easier to follow along in full screen. I'm sure you've been asked before and it's just an issue of not wanting to wait for such high resolution videos to render and upload. But just in case, I'm sure someone here would be able to hook you up with software or ideas for the higher resolutions.
Thanks so much Artosis! I love hearing your commentary in the GSL!
I've been watching the FPVODs and they are very helpful. I'm new to RTS games (I played SCBW but not competitively), and I never realized how helpful watching from first-person was.
Best of luck to you in Korea, and I hope we see you in GSL 2 =)
This is really almost stupidly technical, but in many of my openings in ZvT, after zergling speed I pull 2 guys off of gas, this does help me with my timings because when I get 100 gas this way, it's normally a good time for lair for fast banshees, but is this approach just lazy? Should I in theory be pulling all guys off and then putting 3 on such that I get 100 gas at the same time for lair? Theoretically this would be better as I will get minerals which I can invest to grow my economy whereas gas can't be invested like this, the loss is pretty small, but is this something that changes at the upper, upper, levels?
On September 29 2010 15:35 Artosis wrote: UPDATE!!: Due to popular demand, tomorrow I will be releasing some strategic commentary VODs instead of FPVODs. I'll still do some FPVOD stuff though, and feel out what people like better to learn from. Also, I will release a replay pack when I get some time to play a bunch of games.
Great series, I learn so much just watching. I particularly like using the spawn creep ability to jump creep tumors down cliffs.
In the first batch you showed off a tech switch to mutas to punish a colossus heavy army, but in the last batch you stuck with hydra roach and got melted by a similar composition. Why the change? Was that your "trying new things" game?
I tlooks like you use 4 for main hatch 5 for expo hatch, could you explain why you do this as most people advice the all hatch = 4 and then single queens for 5 and up. Maybe I shouldn't even be worrying about those things at my level (900 diamond;p) but i'd love to know what hotkey setup you'd advice me to use.
Thanks again Artosis, Its generosity like this that makes me super happy to be zerg . Just a few quick questions
Q1: Vs Protoss do you Have a specific timing for your lair and therefore transition into hydra ? or do you go by feel in game.
Q2: I like sling/hydra to fend off 4 gates as well. However, if you notice your Protoss going Heavy zeal/sentry will you make a tech switch to roaches?
Q3: in you 2nd game of Batch 3 on Blistering sands you make an awsome comeback vs the Toss 4gate. The protoss seemed really late on getting his expo and you almost seemed to recover easily. Was this a blunder by the protoss player or just a display of ur sick talent ? lol
Last question: This goes along with Q3, What was your thought process for making the switch to Spire tech instead of roach play?
When do you put your guys back on gas? when would you put you guys back on gas to use for banelings? how long should i go without gas if i know they are going MMM? i always feel like if im not using gas that my zerglings will ultra fail alone.
On September 29 2010 12:55 Artosis wrote: and banelings into countering my opponents ridiculously retarded strategy vs zerg.
God this just sums up like every ZvZ I've ever made it past expanding in.
Because of these videos, I now know how to say several things in Korean, including Not Enough Minerals, Not Enough Vespene Gas and Your Forces Are Under Attack
Thanks Artosis, for teaching us both Starcraft and Korean
On September 29 2010 18:57 mathemagician1986 wrote: thx artosis! great help for us zergies
I have more a general question: do you really think it's worth it to switch to roaches really late? I mean, in all games v P you have started off with a FE, took 2 gas, got lair and then went ling/hydra. Once you see colossi you then add roaches, but I feel that roaches don'T really work well vs colossi, because their range is simply to small.
Do you think sticking to T1 units is good in this situation, or do you think it's better to go spire tech or hive& ultras?
Spire tech and Ultras are better choices if you can get them. The problem is, it takes a lot of time and resources to get those techs out. Sometimes, when you have no time, you have to get roaches.
On September 29 2010 19:02 phfantunes wrote: I have a question, not regarding the VODs, hope that's ok. Since you're casting the GSL and have a much better understanding of the game, I was hoping if you could share some insight on whatthefuck makes Cool such a great player. Each of his game is just better than the previous one, he's crushing people with ease and no matter what you throw at him, he deflects it and is still ages ahead.
Why is this? He has regular APM, ranging the 100, he labels himself lazy and even left oGs due to the training routine, and he also says his micro is poor. Why is he so much more successful than everyone, even people who probably practice twice as hard? Is there some fundamental game mechanic or Zerg element I'm missing and should focus on? Do you label his skills as gamesense, macro, decision making, wtf do you call that!?
I hope some of this post made sense, I'm shaky because of several Zerggasms.
I could write for days on what fruitdealer does right, but it boils down to a few different things. He's a very old school player, so can play reactively quite well. He doesn't rely on mass practice, which means in such a fast paced tournament, he won't be at a disadvantage. He's an ex-proleague player from SC1, which means he has tons of experience playing the hardest, most skilled game in the world. Of course it will take a ridiculously good player to take him down.
Will you please discuss your hatch/queen hotkeys and the advantages/disadvantages of that setup. I tend to 4-all hatch, 5-queen1/hatch1, 6-queen2/hatch2..... I would really appreciate your 2 cents on this.
Artosis, how do you build so many drones at once? I notice you get a 3rd and rally all hatches to it, and I see you build something like 15 drones in <1 second. I tried mashing D very fast but I get no where near these speeds.
On September 30 2010 17:56 Culture wrote: Artosis, how do you build so many drones at once? I notice you get a 3rd and rally all hatches to it, and I see you build something like 15 drones in <1 second. I tried mashing D very fast but I get no where near these speeds.
Artosis: What are your thoughts on roach burrow movement? I find that unburrowing under their army makes a huuuge difference and can easily win the battle/game for you. However, if you are "unlucky" (or they are just good) and they have an observer/scan you., you lose everything (see vs chief), and often lose the game.
So is it worth actually attempting to burrow underneath their army knowing that you might lose the game because of it? Should you only do it when you are behind? Is it actually safer to not attempt this high risk high reward maneuver or should i make it part of my everyday play?
I like your 2 hatch 2 queen style. Watching the replays I'm trying to figure out why/when you spawn tumors vs. injections. With reapers scouted, looked like tumors asap with both queens. Do you generally open with 2 tumors, or are there some opposing openings that let you feel safe with inject with 1 or 2 queens?
why didn't you sneak an overseer to take out his obs that he kept using to pick off units with forcefields after about 9 mins? it also seemed to me like you got your 3rd a little late or is that your standard timing with this build also why did you switch to roach and not spire hive was probably even more far fetched but it seems like spire wouldn't have been completely out of the question timing wise anyway.
vs: 소중해 why did the protoss have his zealots chasing your queens endlessly leaving his stalkers stranded was he literally just a moving? cause if so that's pathetically sad nvm new question how was he at the top of the ladder...
vs 비겐후: why were you not afraid of Vrays after the 2 gate now personally i haven't tried that build but it seemed like it would have been a good transition or can your hydra timing hold 2 gate >vrays i don't actually know if he would have had the gas to support but i woulda thought something was up all i saw was zealots or is that play so boringly standard that you expected it to be a gateway push without a doubt
sorry if these questions are unorganized i typed them as i was watching
thanks for these fpvods keep it up artosis love your casting in the GSL Cool all day
I've noticed in most of your videos (if not all, I don't remember all of them) you do not send an early drone to scout. In a ZvP game you scouted only with your overlord then later with a drone AFTER your overlord got there. Your oppenent 2 gated while you 15 pool 14 hatch. I was quite surprised that you held off the early zealot aggression. The protoss was careless in the first engagement and did no damage but that is beside the point. How is it that you feel comfortable enough with that build to only scout with an overlord early on? This is not only against toss but in all your match ups. I play zerg as well and these VODs help ALOT but I guess my question is why do you opt out of scouting early with say.. the 10th drone?
On October 01 2010 07:24 Elevenst wrote: for batch 3
vs 비겐후: why were you not afraid of Vrays after the 2 gate now personally i haven't tried that build but it seemed like it would have been a good transition or can your hydra timing hold 2 gate >vrays
I'm surely not artosis and i can't remember that exact video, but from experience i can say that void rays are easy to defend as Zerg. Queens can easily take out an equal amount of charged void rays, so there is no real reason to be scared of them. I usually get 2 Queens per hatch just to be safe if i suspect void rays or other air units. If the bases are connected by creep you can easily get 4-6 queens to defend before the void rays can kill anything expensive.
How come you opt not to go for the early drone scout? And how do you decide when to spawn larva and when to spread creep? I noticed in one of your ZvPs that you spread creep with both of your queens before spawning any larva. Was this reactionary or part of the build order?
1. Why you play mutas vs terra ? turrets/marines always devastate my mutas so im currently playing ling/bling/infestor. 2. in ZvZ; how can i defend vs mutas when im a little bit slower with the tech (because i made too many units since i get rushed alot lately or lose alot of drones when i dont make enough units)? it seems that the one who survives earlygame and has a faster lair wins, since he can keep the enemy under pressure and expand. Even if i have way more units than he does i cant finish him off due to 2 spine crawler or smth like that.
p.s. UPDATE!!: Due to popular demand, tomorrow I will be releasing some strategic commentary VODs instead of FPVODs
where can i find those? ._.
p.p.s. in this forum is such a spam... there should be strategy forum for each race and threads like this one should become "sticky" (1 day no post and its on page 4 or 5 ._.)
2. in ZvZ; how can i defend vs mutas when im a little bit slower with the tech (because i made too many units since i get rushed alot lately or lose alot of drones when i dont make enough units)? it seems that the one who survives earlygame and has a faster lair wins, since he can keep the enemy under pressure and expand. Even if i have way more units than he does i cant finish him off due to 2 spine crawler or smth like that.
1. Why you play mutas vs terra ? turrets/marines always devastate my mutas so im currently playing ling/bling/infestor.
These vods are from september. Right after the patch. Back then muta/ling was quite popular, but after reaper nerf infestors became popular. Don't know why.
in the ZvP why didnt you tech to hive? it seemed that protoss was playing very conservative. What was you're thought process, and how were u planning on winning that match, (you weren't too hot on the upgrades and drone count would of been very similiar also)?
2. in ZvZ; how can i defend vs mutas when im a little bit slower with the tech (because i made too many units since i get rushed alot lately or lose alot of drones when i dont make enough units)? it seems that the one who survives earlygame and has a faster lair wins, since he can keep the enemy under pressure and expand. Even if i have way more units than he does i cant finish him off due to 2 spine crawler or smth like that.
1 or 2 extra queens into hydra's, it cant hurt to have an early evo chamber so you have the option to get +1 armor(i always get this nowadays) or put down 1 or 2 spores, i know theyre shit but they should ward off your opponent.
On October 10 2010 20:24 Minzy wrote:1 or 2 extra queens into hydra's, it cant hurt to have an early evo chamber so you have the option to get +1 armor(i always get this nowadays) or put down 1 or 2 spores, i know theyre shit but they should ward off your opponent.
Yes, if you are behind, you just have to assume that. Hydra den builds much faster than the Spire, and Hydras are violently cost effective against mutas, so, if you go Hydras, you wont win right away and you concede him the map control, but if you manage to catch his mutas you'll just break a over 1000/1000 mineral gas inversion.
EPT
. Thanks Artosis!
