|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
On September 28 2010 22:53 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 22:38 Artosis wrote:On September 28 2010 21:30 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote:
So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings? Every zerg should practice 14gas 13pool every game zvz. It can deal with everything, and will teach u zvz eventually. I time things based on what i see in zvz, so id need more direct questions to fully explain anything. Also, just fyi, infestor roach hydra is the ultimate late-mid game army. Properly timed and controlled it beats all. 14gas 13 pool is my build for T and Z but against Zerg how do you deal with large amounts of early Zerglings? Are Baneling necessary or can they be skipped? Also, how are your mouse strokes so smooth and accurate?
Q1. Banes are the best way, by far.
Q2. 12 years of competitive RTS play.
|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:35 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 22:38 Artosis wrote:On September 28 2010 21:30 Thor-axe the Impaler wrote:
So being a Zerg player that favors Macro, and the fact that most of your ZvZ videos cut short before anything game changing could happen, do you recommend that build for all ZvZ?
When do you time things such as expansions, getting roaches, second gas, lair and such.
Assuming you can survive their Roach push and possibly mutalisk or mass ling support, what do you suggest as a next move? Expanding or counter attacking with mass ling?
For all Zerg players who cringe everytime they are faced with a ZvZ in ladder, what do you recommend Zerg do early game to both not die to mass ling or roach, but also not lose all their drones to banelings? Every zerg should practice 14gas 13pool every game zvz. It can deal with everything, and will teach u zvz eventually. I time things based on what i see in zvz, so id need more direct questions to fully explain anything. Also, just fyi, infestor roach hydra is the ultimate late-mid game army. Properly timed and controlled it beats all. How do you handle early (6 or 7) pools with this build? On some longer rush distances I know your lings will pop out right as their lings come in, but on say close position 4p maps (LT or DQ especially) they seem to arrive significantly sooner than your lings popping. Should I just be pulling my drones off creep and running them around since ling and drone speed is close to equal off creep? What about the spine crawler(s) on the 7 pool in that situation?
Early pools are only scary if they also use spine crawlers. In those situations you have to dance drones non-stop, alternating spines and lings. you win some and you lose some. once you become quite good at it, you will eventually win more than lose vs this strategy, in my experience.
|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:37 Laggy wrote:
This isn't much about the game, I posted it as a comment on Youtube but not sure you read those so I'm going to repost it here.
Hey Artosis, I've been wondering how well is yours/IdrA's/Tasteless' Korean? Do you guys just know the basics to get around or a bit more to have fluent conversations? I am wondering the progress of your years being there a little over 2 years.
Also thanks for being such a bad ass caster, I love all your jokes they make it hard to watch the game though ahaha! A fruit dealer has to sell more bananas to banana farmers!
Our Korean is enough to live here on and get around, but we can only have verrrrrry basic conversations.
|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
On September 29 2010 02:40 TheReward wrote:
Do you feel like 15 expand is doable versus T, even on maps with less exposed naturals? My reaction with drones to early T pressure when I do this is probably off, but sometimes it feels like I am just giving myself a BO loss if the opponent early raxs or does any kind of proxy play and I 15 hatch.
hatchery first is still risky. proxy rax or rax before depot will still kill it unless you way outmicro the guy. i'm doing it a lot right now just because i want to test how well i can defend these things, and what i can get away with fully.
|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:05 Eazypeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 02:40 TheReward wrote:
Do you feel like 15 expand is doable versus T, even on maps with less exposed naturals? My reaction with drones to early T pressure when I do this is probably off, but sometimes it feels like I am just giving myself a BO loss if the opponent early raxs or does any kind of proxy play and I 15 hatch. Artosis, cant thank you enough. Im a huge fan keep up the good work. I just wanted to re-point out this question because I also seek the answer to this. Ive noticed that a 15hatch into 14pool has been popular with the Koreans even before the latest patch. I noticed players like Cella going for a 15 hatch vs both T and P. Another example was Cool/Fruitdealer the other day in his 2nd game vs maka he went 15hatch and was able to stop the 2gate. Do you think 15 hatch is alot more viable now against both T and P? Could you give a general guideline to help in deciding wether or not to go for a 15 hatch. Obviously vs Proxy or close rush positions on maps it becomes bad. And my last question is about another Korean style. This isnt so much vs Protoss but when against terran and they go 15hatch, I notice alot of times they will skip ling speed untill later and just tech to roaches. What are your thoughts on this style? Thank you 
Q1. Going for hatch first, especially before the patch, is just a risky percentage play. Its definitely more doable right now than before, but again, if they chose the right build order, you lose. Choosing it is just like any other strategy you might choose in a tournament. Do you feel the rewards outweigh the risks? Unless you scout very fast, or luckily see him with your overlord in close positions, its just a blind choice.
Q2. I don't really care for roach play early on, it costs a ridiculous amount of minerals to do. The reasoning behind it pre-patch was definitely because ling speed would be too slow to stop reapers with. Now I'm unsure if its something people want to do anymore.
|
did you really break 10kminerals on the zvt batch 2?
sorry, i cant see it well.
Ok, also on the ZvT batch 2, if he doesn't push out, would you attack him at one point, or just sit back with banlings and expand?
|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:50 Pandain wrote:
Hey Artosis, just wanted to first say your absolutely amazing and I'm going to learn so much from this so thank you so much. <3
But I also had some questions if you feel like answering.
1..From what I saw in your zvz's, you didn't really get in a drone scout to see if they did a really early pool(etc. 6 pool). I've been doing 14 gas 14 pool, does 14 pool 13 gas manage to defend it well?
2.I saw you going ling baneling in those two-three zvz replays(I've been struggling very much with zvz recently :p), yet have noticed an increasing trend in roach-hydra-infestor. I really dislike the 'randomness' of ling banelings, and have been seeking a new build. Do you believe the fast roach into roach hydra infestor is the way to go? If you could make a new video of you doing it against ling bling that would be super nice too, but you don't have to.
Q1. I go 14gas 13pool, and its pretty defendable if you control right. 14pool 13gas would definitely defend it.
Q2. Ling/Baneling becomes much less random at high levels. Its the best opening and can transition into anything you want normally. roach/hydra/infestor is the best unit composition (aside from ridiculous hive based comps..). i don't suggest going roach into it, you lose complete mobility and have no real good way to scout.
|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:33 DocNapps wrote:
Around what supply did you get lair tech in the ZvT video? i couldnt really see the supply count.
normally i just get it with my 200th gas.
|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:03 Apexplayer wrote:
did you really break 10kminerals on the zvt batch 2?
sorry, i cant see it well.
Ok, also on the ZvT batch 2, if he doesn't push out, would you attack him at one point, or just sit back with banlings and expand?
Q1. ofcourse not?
Q2. the only z unit that can truly attack into terran is the brood lord. unless you hit some weird brood lord timing, sit back and expand.
|
I know this is a really general question, but what would be your "cookie cutter" build against all the three races, when they go just a normal build? (If you have those.)
|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:51 Rahlekk wrote:
I know this is a really general question, but what would be your "cookie cutter" build against all the three races, when they go just a normal build? (If you have those.)
atm i like muta opening vs terran, hydra into roach/hydra/corrupter into ultra vs protoss, and banelings into countering my opponents ridiculously retarded strategy vs zerg.
|
I just want to say that these are just beautiful. I found so educational and entretaining to see how you deal preventively in every game with several (if not all) of the cheeses that I've suffered so far. It's fun to see the scars on your gameplay. The practice time and emotional memory ( In my case it's emotional because, dear god if it hurts to get your lategame tackled by a hidden pylon) are really self-evident.
And this brings me to my question. It's quite easy to see that Zerg has large back. It's a great surface of weakpoints. Behind us, where is hard to see and feel. A surface that each game we must cover trough scouting, neat timings and solid buildorders and good and quick responses. If you agree with the previous statement:
Which abnromalities ( beeing a strange push timming, a picky unit comp, a hidden structure, a particular cheese ) are the ones that really worry you, and if forgotten pretty much guarantee that you'll loose the game? Im reffering to the kind of smelly things that when you do scout but a little late, make you really feel: "Ok, I'm pretty much f'cked up."
I think it would really help everyone to see your opinion on what things are game changing. Probably seeing your opinion is enough to have something to remember. It's even a memotechnique in itself.
|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
On September 29 2010 13:03 gREIFOCs wrote:
I just want to say that these are just beautiful. I found so educational and entretaining to see how you deal preventively in every game with several (if not all) of the cheeses that I've suffered so far. It's fun to see the scars on your gameplay. The practice time and emotional memory ( In my case it's emotional because, dear god if it hurts to get your lategame tackled by a hidden pylon) are really self-evident.
And this brings me to my question. It's quite easy to see that Zerg has large back. It's a great surface of weakpoints. Behind us, where is hard to see and feel. A surface that each game we must cover trough scouting, neat timings and solid buildorders and good and quick responses. If you agree with the previous statement:
Which abnromalities ( beeing a strange push timming, a picky unit comp, a hidden structure, a particular cheese ) are the ones that really worry you, and if forgotten pretty much guarantee that you'll loose the game? Im reffering to the kind of smelly things that when you do scout but a little late, make you really feel: "Ok, I'm pretty much f'cked up."
I think it would really help everyone to see your opinion on what things are game changing. Probably seeing your opinion is enough to have something to remember. It's even a memotechnique in itself.
Cloaked banshees. They are the ultimate wrench which can be thrown into your game plan.
|
Artosis
United States2138 Posts
UPDATE!!:
Due to popular demand, tomorrow I will be releasing some strategic commentary VODs instead of FPVODs. I'll still do some FPVOD stuff though, and feel out what people like better to learn from. Also, I will release a replay pack when I get some time to play a bunch of games.
Batch 3 also up!
|
On September 29 2010 15:35 Artosis wrote:
UPDATE!!:
Due to popular demand, tomorrow I will be releasing some strategic commentary VODs instead of FPVODs. I'll still do some FPVOD stuff though, and feel out what people like better to learn from. Also, I will release a replay pack when I get some time to play a bunch of games.
Batch 3 also up!
You my freind are a god among zergs =]
|
On September 29 2010 15:35 Artosis wrote:
UPDATE!!:
Due to popular demand, tomorrow I will be releasing some strategic commentary VODs instead of FPVODs. I'll still do some FPVOD stuff though, and feel out what people like better to learn from. Also, I will release a replay pack when I get some time to play a bunch of games.
Batch 3 also up!
You're awesome, man. 'Nuff said.
|
Against the protoss army in game 3 of batch 3 on DQ do you think there is any other way to engage that could have been better?
What is the general strategy you try to follow while engaging a colossi/ gateway army mid-late game?
|
Yo art, what do you use to record as you play? I'm thinking of doing a similar thing for protoss =]
|
In regards to a couple of the unit-specific upgrades:
I've noticed you often delay hydra range, is there a particular trigger for when this is important (possibly extent of creep spread and area you're defending) or done more by feel?
Also, seems you rarely get the energy upgrade for infestors early. I'm curious about weighing the gas cost to get them energy faster for faster fungals vs getting additional units produced (since, with practice, you can get your first few infestors 'ready' to fungal more quickly by timing them to hit right as the upgrade finishes rather than building them and waiting for the energy to charge).
Edit: Additional random thought: is there a place for baneling speed in ZvZ or do you consider banes (mostly) exclusive to the early game and ineffective later?
|
Hi, Artosis, I loved your first strategic commentary video, and that video actually helped me out a ton when i was starting out, cant wait for more of those , i was wondering about a game from batch 3 against chief on delta quadrant PvZ, you chose to expand to the far away 8 oclock expansion instead of your backdoor expansion, is this because pylon warp ins in the back of the base are so problematic? or did you just hope to keep it hidden from him?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
