EPTHoping to see it in Funday Monday show
[G]One Base Carrier - Page 2
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
Hoping to see it in Funday Monday show | ||
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mskaa
Denmark155 Posts
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DocM
United States212 Posts
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TehForce
1072 Posts
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
On September 26 2010 02:01 mskaa wrote: +1 air gives interceptors 20% damage increase, is that not a significant effect? It does have a significant effect. However, my build's first push only has one carrier. One carrier's DPS = 26.67 Upgraded DPS = 32 So basically I gained 5.33 DPS for 100/100. Meanwhile, if I upgrade ground troops, for 8 stalker and 7 lots I've gained over 18 DPS for 100/100 (don't quote me on this, source is the DPS chart on TL and I just did a quick calculation in my head.) Or alternatively, for 100/100 (I am gas starved) I can get 2 stalkers out for a boost of 15.28 DPS and 160 hit point worth more of fodder. I understand that people have always advocated getting air weapon level 1, but for the first push it have not a whole lot of effect really and even for harassment it doesn't not kill probes faster. Therefore I recommend getting it if your first push fails. All told, this kind of mathematical refinement is needed to really make this a strong, viable build. | ||
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
On September 26 2010 02:46 TehForce wrote: this doesn't work on higher levels. i played about 10 games against 1300+ enemies trying to 1-base carrier rush but you have absolutely no chance against a good player. All I know is that against someone at my own level I can defeat them comfortably with this build. I imagine stronger timing pushes at higher level before completion of carrier will result in loss at higher level, but I really wish more protoss strategies are derived. At the moment, if opponent scout fleet beacon they assume speed void ray and counter accordingly. I hope to see one day that other races, upon discovery of fleet beacon, will have to consider countering all three tech unlocked by the beacon: MS, speed void and carrier. This game can use more diversity, especially in PvP. | ||
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DrGreen
Poland708 Posts
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
On September 26 2010 06:23 DrGreen wrote: Seems good in PvP (if you can defend 2 gate robo push), not sure about PvZ and probably useless in PvT(say hello to vikings, which counter every fleet beacon tech). viking does not hard counter carrier when she's properly supported, try it out. I must say the most success I have is actually in PvT because viking really is paper plane once you focus fire. | ||
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N3rV[Green]
United States1935 Posts
After my nexus is up I add to the gateway count (up to around 6) then throw down 2 stargates with my natural gases. First carrier normally helps with any kind of first push that comes from the T and after I have my 3rd and 4th making I start up the mothership xD then simply build carriers and zeals (charge is pretty good to have xD) and recall in the back of his main. Sooooo much fun xD | ||
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gr8ape
Canada302 Posts
more carriers than that is not worth the cost/wait however 3-4 carriers boost your ground army significantly | ||
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
I'd like to try this in PvP. But problem with PvT in my opinion here is that yes, carriers can trade 1:3 with vikings but terran can swap reactored starports and outproduce the carriers. Resource wise you can come out even but not in build time. | ||
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
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Roaming
United States239 Posts
Perhaps it would have done you some good to write something up in word, BEFORE deciding to post it on the forums. I get the feeling this was written in the post box for some reason. Hastily. At any rate.. I would highly suggest focusing on one match-up. I seriously doubt the same build order works for all match-ups. And if you read the other thread about carriers on from funday monday, you'll see someone had carriers out in 7 minutes, with a similar number of zealots. Aside from the early stalkers to defend reaper, deny scouting probe, stop roach, or whatever... why are you still building stalkers? Also the single phoenix is rather useless. I believe you would do better with a void ray before carrier. The combo of zealots, 1 or 2 stalkers and 1 void ray plus 1 carrier a full two minutes before you get your carrier out... makes me think you really should search the forums before posting a guide. Btw i have this awesome rush. I build a gateway. Then a gateway. Then a gateway. Then a gateway. And im pretty sure it kills you before 9 minutes. | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
Then again I have no experience with this, just a theory | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
I actually have trouble believing this even though I just read it in lp | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:19 Roaming wrote: First off, if you're going to post a guide, realize that it will be read as is. You shouldn't have to edit basic things, you should just be adding more content. Perhaps it would have done you some good to write something up in word, BEFORE deciding to post it on the forums. I get the feeling this was written in the post box for some reason. Hastily. At any rate.. I would highly suggest focusing on one match-up. I seriously doubt the same build order works for all match-ups. And if you read the other thread about carriers on from funday monday, you'll see someone had carriers out in 7 minutes, with a similar number of zealots. Aside from the early stalkers to defend reaper, deny scouting probe, stop roach, or whatever... why are you still building stalkers? Also the single phoenix is rather useless. I believe you would do better with a void ray before carrier. The combo of zealots, 1 or 2 stalkers and 1 void ray plus 1 carrier a full two minutes before you get your carrier out... makes me think you really should search the forums before posting a guide. Btw i have this awesome rush. I build a gateway. Then a gateway. Then a gateway. Then a gateway. And im pretty sure it kills you before 9 minutes. I dunno if quoting the daily thread lends much credence to your perspective. Great you can get a carrier in 7 minutes, but since you have 5 zealots and 1 stalker or whatever you get crapped on by literally everything else. I think he wanted an army that can hold off pushes while getting to a carrier, so his aim was probably quite a bit higher than the funday monday goons. I'm not saying its a perfect guide or anything, but I think if you're going to bother criticizing someone that has put some effort into sharing his ideas with the community that you do it with a little more tact and actually put some thought into your own post. Zealot/carrier is more annoying than powerful while zealot/stalker/carrier with a sentry for guardian shield might actually be powerful at that juncture. Try to think outside of the box a bit and ditch that X > Z mentality. Ill use PvT as a main example I think its crucial to the idea behind this build to get a phoenix as your first unit out of your stargate unless you're absolutely sure a push is coming that you might need a VR for. 1) Phoenix is the best unit for getting information from terran in the protoss arsenal, it will see before any other unit whether or not you can continue with the carrier or if there is a threat that stargate tech can't deal with. 2) A scouting phoenix isn't enough of a threat to justify a switch to vikings from a terran player... a void ray CAN be, but still might not even prompt that response. The drawback to the void ray is its slow movement makes it a shitty scout. Unless you have a great plan for some early aggression involving a void ray its better used as a defensive unit...AND, unless you have some reason to believe that you will need a void ray to defend against some threat, you wont need it. The phoenix scout will answer the question of whether or not you need a void ray and since phoenix openers are safe against all the terran openers. You're essentially telling him to build a more expensive unit that is worse at fulfilling the purpose of the quick stargate. You will have time to build a void ray if you need it unless the push is already on its way, in which case I dont see how this differs from a normal phoenix opener. I too, want to know how this would hold a 4-gate and the answer might simply be that it cant. If it can't, the OPs ideas MIGHT work in the other MUs. Even with the 4 gate issue my question is thus: Even if it can't hold a 4-gate how is it ANY different than a phoenix opener against that threat? Can a phoenix opener old a 4-gate? Can the scouting you get from the first phoenix give you the information you need to respond to the 4-gate you see? I just feel like this build looks very standard except for a couple things... 1) Obviously you're getting a fleet beacon and 2) you stop workers at 26, which actually probably protects you more against 1 base aggression than a standard build with a midgame outlook. Cutting probes is my biggest problem with the OP's build, but the ideas behind the build makes sense. @OP... can you make it work without probe cutting... so you can expand with your push? Up until what point is this build standard stargate play? In other words, maybe you should just start with the phoenix scout and decide if the carrier push will be optimal based on what you see. If not optimal, will you be able to do some other type of play? Maybe stick to phoenix and throw down a 3rd gateway to defend against 4-gate pushes? I dont like any builds that try to skip straight to tier 3. I think they assume alot, but why not just say "I like stargate openers and understand the power of an early carrier" From there its all adaptation. Carrier might not be optimal, but if you can recognize when it is then you have a tool to add to your arsenal. | ||
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aqui
Germany1023 Posts
On September 26 2010 02:46 TehForce wrote: this doesn't work on higher levels. i played about 10 games against 1300+ enemies trying to 1-base carrier rush but you have absolutely no chance against a good player. eat your words :D | ||
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Roaming
United States239 Posts
Great you can get a carrier in 7 minutes, but since you have 5 zealots and 1 stalker or whatever you get crapped on by literally everything else. You obviously didn't read too far into my post before you got wood and starting replying. As i said he had a similar number of zealots (around 10 with a couple stalkers). Furthermore, I believe both builds were played in 1000+ diamond. Please explain to me how suggesting the OP search out a build which is a full 2 minutes faster with similar results is a problem in your eyes? I'd go on but your post is epic and wrong. | ||
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