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![[image loading]](http://www.starcraft2tactics.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/protoss-carrier2.jpg)
This is only good against T. It's not countered by banshee rush (see replay 3034) because there is enough time to build a robo after phoenix scout
Latest update: 11/3
Most likely my last time updating with replays. I am a busy medical student and my level of play certainly isn't going to get much better than this (low-mid diamond)
Included are two replays played against the same opponent, which I lost to with a 2 gate robo build
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/3033
He laughed upon spotting the carrier. This is the usual first impression
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/3034
We decided to rm again, with him knowing me doing this build. Instead of more viking he opted for a banshee rush, which was scouted and failed.
Take home lesson: while many protoss claim that robo is a must, it's possible to scout banshee rush in time with phoenix.
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/2112
Blink stalker has map control and is an effective counter.
I am not doing this as a part of Day 9 exercise. In fact, I been doing this for a long time, ever since I first touched the control of a carrier 12 years ago, I could not stop. Today I am going to present you the very precise timing I've deduced, allowing a carrier push arrive at enemy base at approximately 8min well backed up by ground forces. I suscept this strategy is a good counter of the prevalent banshee raven marauder play seen in GSL lately.
This is a micro-intensive build
First off, replays.
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1524
This is a PVP game I played on scrap station. I have well abused the carrier mobility, shutting down a drop as well as reducing enemy stalker numbers.
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1525
This is a PvZ game, hydra does not work aainst carrier
More Replays
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1540
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1541
First game I lost to a Z
Second game I won a PvP on scrap station, demostrating that this build can hold off some aggression.
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1834
Against P with 3 gate robo
I made a few blunder in this build (blocking in my own sentry) and was behind from the get go. But I managed to pull back and won based on pure micro as well as a clutch forcefield that trapped his immortal.
Overall a very action filled game. Guy also left with GGing.
Part I
Build order (updated 10/4)
A game with the new BO
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1823
New BO (edited 10/13), this is the result of hundreds of games played. I don't think I can get more efficient than this.
- my most recent replay illustrate this BO
9 pylon
12 gate
14 gas
16 pylon
- save chronoboost at 18
Cyber as soon as mineral becomes available
2nd gas as soon as mineral becomes available
When cyber is done: get one zealot, research wrap gate, start saving up chronoboost
- do not research wrap gate yet!
- at this point you should be at 22 supply, build two more probes then stop probe production
- build one sentry after the zealot is out, chronoboost it. This is the only chronoboost you will use from this point on if not harassed, save all the rest for carrier
- continuously produce zealot after
Stargate as soon as resource is available
two more gate way as soon as resource is available, add pylon as needed
- continue to produce zealot
Produce a fleet beacon as soon as stargate is done.
Produce a phoenix to scout for banshee
Produce carrier as soon as resource is ready
- continue to produce zealot until 150 gas is saved up, at this point research graviton catapult
Carrier out at 8min with constant chronoboost. usually, select all gateway units and have them follow your carrier to maintain formation
- send out a probe to construct proxy pylon for reinforcement. Ideally below their ramp so you can reinforce right into their main
Note about viking: kill them first, and because carrier have 14 range after interceptors are launched (2 from interceptor, 8 from carrier, you can actually kite unmicroed vikings, as seen in replay)
Part II
Microing your units
Retreat your carrier as soon as it gets focus fired, and definitely retreat when your rush begin to lose steam.
Carrier micro
- Carrier has 8 range when releasing interceptors, and the range becomes 14 as the interceptors are out (against a single target, must move back into 8 range to release interceptor against another target).
- Sometimes letting your opponent to target fire carrier a bit can draw fire away from your ground troops, but don't over do it!
- It's possible to precharge void ray on your carrier. (no longer relevant in 1.1.2)
Part III
This is an all in timing attack. Not pushing up the ramp result in defeat.
What if I got rushed?
use force field to hold off.
Part IV
Why don't I just make a mothership?
This comes out earlier than mothership and has more direct assualt fire power than mothership. You can 1A most terran with it.
Also, in the end, I like to end with some terran tears.
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1526
QQing Terran.
EDITED: phoenix vs. void ray. I been modifying my build and build phoenix instead of void ray.
Reason 1: phoenix allow some scoutting, making your build more robost against other all-ins
Reason 2: phoneix can help defend by graviton beam earlier than v ray can come out. I imagine this can make a difference in some cases, especially my revision build has a cannon at ramp
Reason 3: main push comes out a bit faster
Reason 4: void ray is not cost effective if not charged.
9/29/10 EDIT:
Four Gate Domination Special!
Those are two replays, first one from laddering and second one from a 1000pt diamond, arguably not the best player, but so am I. On a similar skill level I was able to hold off their 4 gate.
Replay 1: PvP, metalpolis, 4 gate
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1625
I got a sentry as soon as I realized that 4 gate was coming. As you can see, one carrier literally held off the 4 gate rush. Speaking of hero carrier.
Lesson learned: 1 carrier + 2 cannon can defend against a 4 gate rush
Replay 2 PvP
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1626
This guy actually 5 gated me, and I got a sentry as soon as I realized what's going on. Some perfect sentry micro and some shitty carrier micro later (lost 2 carriers, including one with 15 kills on it)
I believe each of my carrier has at least 10 kills, more like 15. that's 1500+ mineral and 500+ gas for each of those carrier. Speaking of cost effectiveness.
10/13 EDIT
Updated with some of the finest terran tears.
So since I been having some really good results with this build against T I decided to off race as Z. I was of course rolled over by MMM because I was not experienced enough with fungal. I asked for a rematch, and my opponent simply went "nah". I explained that I was off racing and main P, then he proceeded to say "P is too easy try I only play TvT". He then explained that MMM is so good that there is no counter to it.
Well, I beg to differ, and told him I have a strat pretty much hard counter MMM. He of course laughed at this and said that tester got rolled by MMM. I replied that tester never did this build (why would a toss hero n00b cheese like this?)
He reluctantly agreed to a rematch, and I got to witness some of the finest terran QQ. He actually put me on ignored list after the match.
Guy's APM is roughly 3 times mine and he DID scout my stargate AND fleet beacon and laid down missile turrets. Unfortunately MMM just wasn't enough in his case. I imagine you have a very small timing window to scout and pump viking. I know that 2 viking isn't enough against this build.
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/2046
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For the record, this push A move roll over a terran force of 6 viking, 6 marauder and 16 marine (when both side A move).
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Good stuff
The very last replay you posted is the PvZ match you posted earlier.
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Pretty nice build, look forward to playing around with it 
What could be a major weakness is the possibility of banshee (or DT?) harassment fairly early on, but I suppose you can somewhat use the void ray to scout out for such a situation, and react appropriately.
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You have a very complete guide. What league is this viable up to?
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I am in diamond 950. I imagine this will not work too well if you don't have good forcefield and voidray micro. I wonder how would this work in very high level tournament but I don't see any obvious deficient.
So there are the timing gaps.
1. Before first stalker comes out
- not a big problem, 1 gate core is standard opening, I imagine facing ultra aggressive build you can wall in/get forge up.
2. Before void ray comes out (terran marauder timing push (the early kind))
- remember your first unit is a sentry and you should have extra gas left over before you get void ray? Get sentry. I think they spawn with enough energy to force field the ramp off long enough, not to mention you can cut the enemy force in half. You do have 2 gate worth of unit more or less in constant production.
3. Before carrier comes out
- not really a problem if you still have void ray, just forcefield ramp and charge void ray on your gateway. I imagine if you lost the void ray it would be more problematic, but enough forcefield might just tie you over. And remember, once your carrier is out you can really kite those marauders with it.
4. If you lost your first wave.
- If you lost your carrier, it's more or less GG since around 20-30% of DPS comes from the carrier. You go down with the ship unless you really hurt the enemy.
- fortunately carrier is big and buff and it should stay in the back. So if you realize your force is getting low, retreat and push when the second carrier comes out.
I guess my discovery is that instead of thinking carrier as something only good en-masse, understand their potential as "hero" of the force, and have a push each time one carrier comes out. Frequent pushes can really wear out the enemy.
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This thread is a complete joke.
In your first game. the pvp. Your opponent does 1 gate into robo, into a robobay(which he never used), odd enough, then he tries a really odd strat of a fast 2 immortal drop. Its not like its some crazy impossible build, but its the perfect build for you to see as you try to carrier rush. Did you try this build 40 times and post the one game where it worked?
For whatever reason you pylon 10 and waste chrono. but thats a whole other issue. Then you make your buildings exposed below your ramp(scrap station). Any 3-4 warpgate could easily kill you. I think even a 2 gate robo/immortal would take you down too. And its not like you "countered" his build, because you never even scouted past his 1 gate 1 robo build. What if he went 1 gate 1 robo+2 gates with heavy stalkers? How would u ever counter that?
The 2nd game is a little more believable, but your play and your opponents was pretty subpar. You lose your VR by trading it for 1 queen and killing 1 gas(which wasnt even being used). Then you get a carrier ground force at the zergs 2nd base(a gold) which did WAY more damage then it should have. The zerg just lets 10+ drones die for no reason The small hydra ling force ate your stalker force up, and your carrier really didn't do much, definitely not more than what a few more stalkers/zealots could have done. If you had the manpower to actually take out the hatchery, i'd give you some props to this build, but you literally just killed drones(which you shouldnt have) and a few units and a queen.
The zerg also gets his nat(his 3rd base) but literally has 1 drone mining the entire time. But by this point, his econ is so shot for needlessly losing drones its not worth discussing viability.
Do you win? Yes. Can this work against "standard" play? No.
On the other hand, your unit control was horrendous, losing your first VR in your PvZ and losing your first carrier doing little damage in your PvZ, maybe a more experienced player can make this work.
I think we need more refined guidelines for what players can be allowed to post as [G]'s. Because you have yet to prove how to utilize this build against at least a few of the standard builds you see today.
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On September 25 2010 15:08 zomgtossrush wrote:
I think we need more refined guidelines for what players can be allowed to post as [G]'s. Because you have yet to prove how to utilize this build against at least a few of the standard builds you see today.
The guidelines are there man, but it seems that very few people know of them ^^ And there's no topic closing anymore (hard to keep up with all the QQing and help me even though my question has been resolved 4 hundred thousand fucking times... Poor tl staff :'( )
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[G] Guides Know what you are talking about Guides are complete, detailed, and comprehensive advice for a specific strategy or tactic that can be generally executed and is not situational. Guides are held up against the highest standards of quality in this forum. They are the most valuable resource for the average player. Writing a good guide may yield you wide appreciation and e-fame, but comes with a lot of work and responsibility. Naturally, do not write a guide about something you are not experienced with. If you have come up with a new build and you just won 6 games in a row with it, do not start writing a guide. Play your build more, tweak it, find out it’s weaknesses and follow-ups and branches. A good rule of thumb is to play a strategy until you lose a couple of times with it against different counters, then modify it until you win most games again, then start to think about writing a guide. A good guide does not necessarily have to be written about a build in a specific matchup, although that is most common. If you have found a new, incredibly effective way to micro Helions you can write a generic Helion micro guide. Most of the time guides will introduce builds in specific matchups though. Look through our legacy Strategy forum to get an idea on how to write good matchup build guides. There is no perfect recipe, but a few things to take care of: State the goal of the build, strengths, weaknesses, possible follow-up, and adaptations to what the opponent does. Dedicate a chapter to scouting and how to react to what you see within your build. To give you an idea of the quality we are eventually aiming for have a look at this incredible SC:BW guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=89265
FYI
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On September 25 2010 15:08 zomgtossrush wrote:
This thread is a complete joke.
In your first game. the pvp. Your opponent does 1 gate into robo, into a robobay(which he never used), odd enough, then he tries a really odd strat of a fast 2 immortal drop. Its not like its some crazy impossible build, but its the perfect build for you to see as you try to carrier rush. Did you try this build 40 times and post the one game where it worked?
For whatever reason you pylon 10 and waste chrono. but thats a whole other issue. Then you make your buildings exposed below your ramp(scrap station). Any 3-4 warpgate could easily kill you. I think even a 2 gate robo/immortal would take you down too. And its not like you "countered" his build, because you never even scouted past his 1 gate 1 robo build. What if he went 1 gate 1 robo+2 gates with heavy stalkers? How would u ever counter that?
The 2nd game is a little more believable, but your play and your opponents was pretty subpar. You lose your VR by trading it for 1 queen and killing 1 gas(which wasnt even being used). Then you get a carrier ground force at the zergs 2nd base(a gold) which did WAY more damage then it should have. The zerg just lets 10+ drones die for no reason The small hydra ling force ate your stalker force up, and your carrier really didn't do much, definitely not more than what a few more stalkers/zealots could have done. If you had the manpower to actually take out the hatchery, i'd give you some props to this build, but you literally just killed drones(which you shouldnt have) and a few units and a queen.
The zerg also gets his nat(his 3rd base) but literally has 1 drone mining the entire time. But by this point, his econ is so shot for needlessly losing drones its not worth discussing viability.
Do you win? Yes. Can this work against "standard" play? No.
On the other hand, your unit control was horrendous, losing your first VR in your PvZ and losing your first carrier doing little damage in your PvZ, maybe a more experienced player can make this work.
I think we need more refined guidelines for what players can be allowed to post as [G]'s. Because you have yet to prove how to utilize this build against at least a few of the standard builds you see today.
First of all, I understand I am not very high level and have not used this consistently against high level players because I am quite busy in real life, so maybe a mod can change this from a guide to a discussion?
I imagine a player more experienced can make this work even better. I posted two replays where I lost units instead of just steam rolling over opponents, just to demostrate it can work even if things go wrong.
As for unit trading, I honestly always thought taking out a queen is good idea. I did not know that he was in fact, building another queen or that hydra was being morphed, but if I develop a superior game sense I would have been able to get it.
As for boosting at 10, I thought boosting to get 10th probe out faster would be able to gain an upper hand on economy, but I am all ears here and I am going to research if that's in fact not a standard opening.
Thank you for taking your time to critique my play
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On September 25 2010 15:21 Douillos wrote:
Naturally, do not write a guide about something you are not experienced with. If you have come up with a new build and you just won 6 games in a row with it, do not start writing a guide. Play your build more, tweak it, find out it’s weaknesses and follow-ups and branches. A good rule of thumb is to play a strategy until you lose a couple of times with it against different counters, then modify it until you win most games again, then start to think about writing a guide.
Just to be fair, I first posted this idea of one base carrier play a month ago under a different handle, but it was quite flimsy back then, so I been tweaking this build until I am winning pretty consistently against all match ups in a lower level (lower diamond level). I don't get matched against top diamonds and I do not know how this will work in upper leagues.
I find carrier to be horribly underused, yet have the potential to revolutionize at least PvT.
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On September 25 2010 13:38 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
Build order
10 pylon, probe scout, if no proxy then immediately return home (this is a fairly safe all in build against all races except 4 gate I imagine)
12 gateway
13 Refinery
- depends on whether rush coming, build another refinery or wait
15 refinery
- cut probe to get core out asap
16 Core
- if rush coming, build another gateway
17 pylon
-When Core done, build one sentry and research warp gate
- Build stalker as soon as sentry's out.
- build a stargate
Refinery?
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On September 25 2010 15:34 Soulish wrote:
Refinery?
Thanks, edited.
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On September 25 2010 15:24 Protoss_Carrier wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 15:08 zomgtossrush wrote:
This thread is a complete joke.
In your first game. the pvp. Your opponent does 1 gate into robo, into a robobay(which he never used), odd enough, then he tries a really odd strat of a fast 2 immortal drop. Its not like its some crazy impossible build, but its the perfect build for you to see as you try to carrier rush. Did you try this build 40 times and post the one game where it worked?
For whatever reason you pylon 10 and waste chrono. but thats a whole other issue. Then you make your buildings exposed below your ramp(scrap station). Any 3-4 warpgate could easily kill you. I think even a 2 gate robo/immortal would take you down too. And its not like you "countered" his build, because you never even scouted past his 1 gate 1 robo build. What if he went 1 gate 1 robo+2 gates with heavy stalkers? How would u ever counter that?
The 2nd game is a little more believable, but your play and your opponents was pretty subpar. You lose your VR by trading it for 1 queen and killing 1 gas(which wasnt even being used). Then you get a carrier ground force at the zergs 2nd base(a gold) which did WAY more damage then it should have. The zerg just lets 10+ drones die for no reason The small hydra ling force ate your stalker force up, and your carrier really didn't do much, definitely not more than what a few more stalkers/zealots could have done. If you had the manpower to actually take out the hatchery, i'd give you some props to this build, but you literally just killed drones(which you shouldnt have) and a few units and a queen.
The zerg also gets his nat(his 3rd base) but literally has 1 drone mining the entire time. But by this point, his econ is so shot for needlessly losing drones its not worth discussing viability.
Do you win? Yes. Can this work against "standard" play? No.
On the other hand, your unit control was horrendous, losing your first VR in your PvZ and losing your first carrier doing little damage in your PvZ, maybe a more experienced player can make this work.
I think we need more refined guidelines for what players can be allowed to post as [G]'s. Because you have yet to prove how to utilize this build against at least a few of the standard builds you see today. First of all, I understand I am not very high level and have not used this consistently against high level players because I am quite busy in real life, so maybe a mod can change this from a guide to a discussion? I imagine a player more experienced can make this work even better. I posted two replays where I lost units instead of just steam rolling over opponents, just to demostrate it can work even if things go wrong. As for unit trading, I honestly always thought taking out a queen is good idea. I did not know that he was in fact, building another queen or that hydra was being morphed, but if I develop a superior game sense I would have been able to get it. As for boosting at 10, I thought boosting to get 10th probe out faster would be able to gain an upper hand on economy, but I am all ears here and I am going to research if that's in fact not a standard opening. Thank you for taking your time to critique my play
I perfectly accept the fact that some guides are geared towards lower levels of play. But when writing a guide, you should have an opinion or suggestion of what to do against common builds. Like a 2 gate robo play from protoss.
On a brighter note, macro wise the replays look really solid, and this DOES have potential, but this is far from the ranks of being solid build advice.
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I don't remember who it was, but I somewhere (maybe a stream or youtube) I saw someone do a one base fast carrier push and it was executed very nicely, he actually added a mothership after 2-3 carriers. I tried it and won/lost a few games.
So, it can be viable but it's not a basic/solid build to counter everything, but this kind of build is hard to counter if not scouted.
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On September 25 2010 15:31 Protoss_Carrier wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 15:21 Douillos wrote:
Naturally, do not write a guide about something you are not experienced with. If you have come up with a new build and you just won 6 games in a row with it, do not start writing a guide. Play your build more, tweak it, find out it’s weaknesses and follow-ups and branches. A good rule of thumb is to play a strategy until you lose a couple of times with it against different counters, then modify it until you win most games again, then start to think about writing a guide.
Just to be fair, I first posted this idea of one base carrier play a month ago under a different handle, but it was quite flimsy back then, so I been tweaking this build until I am winning pretty consistently against all match ups in a lower level (lower diamond level). I don't get matched against top diamonds and I do not know how this will work in upper leagues. I find carrier to be horribly underused, yet have the potential to revolutionize at least PvT.
Then you should not be instructing others to follow in your mistakes. I been messing with fast carriers for the past week because of the funday monday, messing with alot of things and I can safely say this. Everything you have described in this "guide" of yours because all the units you have are a stalker / sentry. You will not live to see that carrier.
I spent around 30 games or so in a row perfecting rushing a carrier at the 1K diamond area, before I got it working and nothing in this "guide" match's any of that. Not 1 thing.
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Well, I play zerg low-diamond, but I am interested in this build somehow. I believe it has a good sense. In execution there might have been problems (in replays) especially in your opponent's parts, but may I humbly advice you post more replays, whether you have won or lost?
A little bit more work on it, a little bit shining up and it would be a viable guide, methinks.
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On September 25 2010 15:08 zomgtossrush wrote:
This thread is a complete joke.
In your first game. the pvp. Your opponent does 1 gate into robo, into a robobay(which he never used), odd enough, then he tries a really odd strat of a fast 2 immortal drop. Its not like its some crazy impossible build, but its the perfect build for you to see as you try to carrier rush. Did you try this build 40 times and post the one game where it worked?
He used the robo bay to make a Colossus.
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So an update, I modified my build a little bit, incoporating the 9 probe 12 gate starter and throw a forge first instead of second gate way to make my build a little bit more robost. I also been reconsidering the value of void ray because it's not super cost effective in the main army.
I also been getting upgrade from the forge. Against P and Z = attack +1, against T = defense + 1, I been forgoing air upgrade (get it later than ground) because your ground is the main DPS output where as your carrier is a distraction
Here are two more games I played, both in ladder and against 1000+ diamond opponents.
First game, I lost to Z who greedy expanded and I failed to scout out his hidden base. I also lost that void ray which pretty much cost me the game.
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1540
Second game, P actually wrap gate rushed (not 4 gate though) so my additional photon cannon really shined here. I think I will be building one photon cannon and use forge upgrade as standard. My army was caught out of position once yet it still cleaned up, pretty much, showing how important early upgrade is
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1541
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Just looked around in the upgrade spread sheet. It seems that upgrading air weapon lvl 1 does not have significant effect on my build, and therefore it can be put off till later. I am going to experiment with a build where graviton catapault is not upgraded until my units are on the field to squeeze out one more stalker.
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I have lost to a carrier rush. The game was quite long on 3-4 bases each. Lots of nice micro from P on Xelnaga Caverns.
Hoping to see it in Funday Monday show
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+1 air gives interceptors 20% damage increase, is that not a significant effect?
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I think carriers can be effective if you can stay alive long enough to get +3 attack upgrade. (not often honestly). you have to really turtle effectively and/or be aggressive with your first few carriers to survive that long.
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this doesn't work on higher levels. i played about 10 games against 1300+ enemies trying to 1-base carrier rush but you have absolutely no chance against a good player.
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On September 26 2010 02:01 mskaa wrote:
+1 air gives interceptors 20% damage increase, is that not a significant effect?
It does have a significant effect. However, my build's first push only has one carrier.
One carrier's DPS = 26.67
Upgraded DPS = 32
So basically I gained 5.33 DPS for 100/100.
Meanwhile, if I upgrade ground troops, for 8 stalker and 7 lots I've gained over 18 DPS for 100/100 (don't quote me on this, source is the DPS chart on TL and I just did a quick calculation in my head.)
Or alternatively, for 100/100 (I am gas starved) I can get 2 stalkers out for a boost of 15.28 DPS and 160 hit point worth more of fodder.
I understand that people have always advocated getting air weapon level 1, but for the first push it have not a whole lot of effect really and even for harassment it doesn't not kill probes faster. Therefore I recommend getting it if your first push fails.
All told, this kind of mathematical refinement is needed to really make this a strong, viable build.
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On September 26 2010 02:46 TehForce wrote:
this doesn't work on higher levels. i played about 10 games against 1300+ enemies trying to 1-base carrier rush but you have absolutely no chance against a good player.
All I know is that against someone at my own level I can defeat them comfortably with this build. I imagine stronger timing pushes at higher level before completion of carrier will result in loss at higher level, but I really wish more protoss strategies are derived.
At the moment, if opponent scout fleet beacon they assume speed void ray and counter accordingly. I hope to see one day that other races, upon discovery of fleet beacon, will have to consider countering all three tech unlocked by the beacon: MS, speed void and carrier.
This game can use more diversity, especially in PvP.
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Seems good in PvP (if you can defend 2 gate robo push), not sure about PvZ and probably useless in PvT(say hello to vikings, which counter every fleet beacon tech).
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On September 26 2010 06:23 DrGreen wrote:
Seems good in PvP (if you can defend 2 gate robo push), not sure about PvZ and probably useless in PvT(say hello to vikings, which counter every fleet beacon tech).
viking does not hard counter carrier when she's properly supported, try it out. I must say the most success I have is actually in PvT because viking really is paper plane once you focus fire.
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My personal preference for carrier play stems off of a 1-gate FE. (only vs T really)
After my nexus is up I add to the gateway count (up to around 6) then throw down 2 stargates with my natural gases.
First carrier normally helps with any kind of first push that comes from the T and after I have my 3rd and 4th making I start up the mothership xD
then simply build carriers and zeals (charge is pretty good to have xD) and recall in the back of his main. Sooooo much fun xD
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Ive played a bit with carriers and the most effective use of them was +1 or +2 attack with 3-4 carriers max, and a very healthy gateway army
more carriers than that is not worth the cost/wait
however 3-4 carriers boost your ground army significantly
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Just went home and did some test, it seems like air weapon +1 and ground weapon both are must, because doesn't matter what the math says, it's still important to have it.
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I been trying another variation where I show this strat to the opponent, but if I scout a lack of expansion and full turtling mode for terran, I just stop producing any combat unit for 3 minute and do some crazy expand, and by the time t realized the crazy all in never came hes already way behind
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I've lost to a 1 base carrier as zerg where I just massed pure hydra. His attacks never went anywhere since hydras can kite on creep and can quickly kill interceptors en masse but I forgot to keep droning and I eventually lost 2base to 2 base. It was mostly the surprise.
I'd like to try this in PvP. But problem with PvT in my opinion here is that yes, carriers can trade 1:3 with vikings but terran can swap reactored starports and outproduce the carriers. Resource wise you can come out even but not in build time.
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oh yeah, does anyone know if the interceptors still get autorepaired when they go back to fighter bay like in BW?
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First off, if you're going to post a guide, realize that it will be read as is. You shouldn't have to edit basic things, you should just be adding more content.
Perhaps it would have done you some good to write something up in word, BEFORE deciding to post it on the forums. I get the feeling this was written in the post box for some reason. Hastily.
At any rate.. I would highly suggest focusing on one match-up. I seriously doubt the same build order works for all match-ups.
And if you read the other thread about carriers on from funday monday, you'll see someone had carriers out in 7 minutes, with a similar number of zealots.
Aside from the early stalkers to defend reaper, deny scouting probe, stop roach, or whatever... why are you still building stalkers? Also the single phoenix is rather useless. I believe you would do better with a void ray before carrier. The combo of zealots, 1 or 2 stalkers and 1 void ray plus 1 carrier a full two minutes before you get your carrier out... makes me think you really should search the forums before posting a guide.
Btw i have this awesome rush. I build a gateway. Then a gateway. Then a gateway. Then a gateway. And im pretty sure it kills you before 9 minutes.
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Often times the carrier is the last man standing, especially if he fights with workers etc... That's when the 1+ does it business...
Then again I have no experience with this, just a theory
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wait... interceptors get repaired in bw? I never knew that and I thought I knew everything about that game when it comes to mechanics.
I actually have trouble believing this even though I just read it in lp
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On September 30 2010 06:19 Roaming wrote:
First off, if you're going to post a guide, realize that it will be read as is. You shouldn't have to edit basic things, you should just be adding more content.
Perhaps it would have done you some good to write something up in word, BEFORE deciding to post it on the forums. I get the feeling this was written in the post box for some reason. Hastily.
At any rate.. I would highly suggest focusing on one match-up. I seriously doubt the same build order works for all match-ups.
And if you read the other thread about carriers on from funday monday, you'll see someone had carriers out in 7 minutes, with a similar number of zealots.
Aside from the early stalkers to defend reaper, deny scouting probe, stop roach, or whatever... why are you still building stalkers? Also the single phoenix is rather useless. I believe you would do better with a void ray before carrier. The combo of zealots, 1 or 2 stalkers and 1 void ray plus 1 carrier a full two minutes before you get your carrier out... makes me think you really should search the forums before posting a guide.
Btw i have this awesome rush. I build a gateway. Then a gateway. Then a gateway. Then a gateway. And im pretty sure it kills you before 9 minutes.
I dunno if quoting the daily thread lends much credence to your perspective. Great you can get a carrier in 7 minutes, but since you have 5 zealots and 1 stalker or whatever you get crapped on by literally everything else. I think he wanted an army that can hold off pushes while getting to a carrier, so his aim was probably quite a bit higher than the funday monday goons. I'm not saying its a perfect guide or anything, but I think if you're going to bother criticizing someone that has put some effort into sharing his ideas with the community that you do it with a little more tact and actually put some thought into your own post. Zealot/carrier is more annoying than powerful while zealot/stalker/carrier with a sentry for guardian shield might actually be powerful at that juncture. Try to think outside of the box a bit and ditch that X > Z mentality.
Ill use PvT as a main example
I think its crucial to the idea behind this build to get a phoenix as your first unit out of your stargate unless you're absolutely sure a push is coming that you might need a VR for. 1) Phoenix is the best unit for getting information from terran in the protoss arsenal, it will see before any other unit whether or not you can continue with the carrier or if there is a threat that stargate tech can't deal with. 2) A scouting phoenix isn't enough of a threat to justify a switch to vikings from a terran player... a void ray CAN be, but still might not even prompt that response. The drawback to the void ray is its slow movement makes it a shitty scout. Unless you have a great plan for some early aggression involving a void ray its better used as a defensive unit...AND, unless you have some reason to believe that you will need a void ray to defend against some threat, you wont need it. The phoenix scout will answer the question of whether or not you need a void ray and since phoenix openers are safe against all the terran openers. You're essentially telling him to build a more expensive unit that is worse at fulfilling the purpose of the quick stargate. You will have time to build a void ray if you need it unless the push is already on its way, in which case I dont see how this differs from a normal phoenix opener.
I too, want to know how this would hold a 4-gate and the answer might simply be that it cant. If it can't, the OPs ideas MIGHT work in the other MUs. Even with the 4 gate issue my question is thus: Even if it can't hold a 4-gate how is it ANY different than a phoenix opener against that threat? Can a phoenix opener old a 4-gate? Can the scouting you get from the first phoenix give you the information you need to respond to the 4-gate you see? I just feel like this build looks very standard except for a couple things... 1) Obviously you're getting a fleet beacon and 2) you stop workers at 26, which actually probably protects you more against 1 base aggression than a standard build with a midgame outlook. Cutting probes is my biggest problem with the OP's build, but the ideas behind the build makes sense.
@OP... can you make it work without probe cutting... so you can expand with your push? Up until what point is this build standard stargate play? In other words, maybe you should just start with the phoenix scout and decide if the carrier push will be optimal based on what you see. If not optimal, will you be able to do some other type of play? Maybe stick to phoenix and throw down a 3rd gateway to defend against 4-gate pushes?
I dont like any builds that try to skip straight to tier 3. I think they assume alot, but why not just say "I like stargate openers and understand the power of an early carrier" From there its all adaptation. Carrier might not be optimal, but if you can recognize when it is then you have a tool to add to your arsenal.
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On September 26 2010 02:46 TehForce wrote:
this doesn't work on higher levels. i played about 10 games against 1300+ enemies trying to 1-base carrier rush but you have absolutely no chance against a good player.
eat your words :D
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Great you can get a carrier in 7 minutes, but since you have 5 zealots and 1 stalker or whatever you get crapped on by literally everything else. You obviously didn't read too far into my post before you got wood and starting replying. As i said he had a similar number of zealots (around 10 with a couple stalkers).
Furthermore, I believe both builds were played in 1000+ diamond. Please explain to me how suggesting the OP search out a build which is a full 2 minutes faster with similar results is a problem in your eyes? I'd go on but your post is epic and wrong.
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On September 30 2010 06:19 Roaming wrote:
First off, if you're going to post a guide, realize that it will be read as is. You shouldn't have to edit basic things, you should just be adding more content.
Perhaps it would have done you some good to write something up in word, BEFORE deciding to post it on the forums. I get the feeling this was written in the post box for some reason. Hastily.
At any rate.. I would highly suggest focusing on one match-up. I seriously doubt the same build order works for all match-ups.
And if you read the other thread about carriers on from funday monday, you'll see someone had carriers out in 7 minutes, with a similar number of zealots.
Aside from the early stalkers to defend reaper, deny scouting probe, stop roach, or whatever... why are you still building stalkers? Also the single phoenix is rather useless. I believe you would do better with a void ray before carrier. The combo of zealots, 1 or 2 stalkers and 1 void ray plus 1 carrier a full two minutes before you get your carrier out... makes me think you really should search the forums before posting a guide.
Btw i have this awesome rush. I build a gateway. Then a gateway. Then a gateway. Then a gateway. And im pretty sure it kills you before 9 minutes.
The reason why I edited is because I've been continuously experimenting with this build and actually tried void ray opener, and it does not work.
void ray does not win me game that I would have won, but costed me game that if scouted, I would not have lost.
I don't know how well this would hold up as a standard build (most likely not, because anything slower than fast colossus gets rofl stomped in pro tournment as standard play, but on the other hand this isn't too slow comparing to standard build).
I do intend for this to be a pretty solid build that lower league player can use. The combo of fairly standard stalker and cannon make it not so bad against early aggression (I definitely held off the 2 marauder 1 rine 1 SCV rush with cannon + 1 goon), it all comes down to cannon placement and micro, really. Availability of phoenix (which gets to the opponent base faster than OB I have a feeling) make scouting a breeze and graviton beam help a lot while void ray can be non-cost effective if focus fired upon. Basically I feel this is a pretty solid build if executed properly for bronze to low-mid diamond.
I mean, as for bronze, I actually taught my gf this build and she rofled stomped through. She never played sc before.
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On September 30 2010 07:25 aqui wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 02:46 TehForce wrote:
this doesn't work on higher levels. i played about 10 games against 1300+ enemies trying to 1-base carrier rush but you have absolutely no chance against a good player. eat your words :D
What, Huk only did it against Tarson and Brat_ok, how good are they 
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though i dislike this kind of plain vanilla build (i play zerg ^^), this is an interesting post including detailed timings etc. .. no need for the "super pros" to march in and mob the OP.
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I like that you have your cool little strategy, but it's a 1 base all in and I don't like that.
People should focus on learning the game and not using these strategies that will eventually become useless once everyone is prepared for them.
If you don't suprise your opponent with this, he will be prepared and you won't do much.
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This is like a voidray build but worse.
This may be the best strat for what you want, but this can't win above low diamond with micro alone.
There's only one viable advantage for knowing this build. If you are ahead early-ish and are put into a situation where he wont let you convert your lead (& he's also sitting in his base), you could go this route (but also others).
You are basically crippling yourself for a fun and singular unit, so it better be focking good by itself. Carriers are not supposed to be by themselves. Sure it's nice to have a carrier against a lot of other protoss units but you lose more than you gain from an additional carrier or two because of all the map control and teching.
The same that applies for a voidray does not apply for carrier. SC2 voidray is like a beefed-up wraith in BW TvT. SC2 carrier is like a beefed up battlecruiser in BW TvT. Tech switching to carrier with that intent shows a lack of familiarity with sc2, but that's understandable given the age of the game. Use voidrays and convert your advantage into something else.
If you want to improve your game instantly, approach matches with the greatest hesitation to tech and an even greater desire to win. You will learn so much.
Ask Stork about carrier teching
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On September 30 2010 09:14 StimCraft wrote:
This is like a voidray build but worse.
This may be the best strat for what you want, but this can't win above low diamond with micro alone.
There's only one viable advantage for knowing this build. If you are ahead early-ish and are put into a situation where he wont let you convert your lead (& he's also sitting in his base), you could go this route (but also others).
You are basically crippling yourself for a fun and singular unit, so it better be focking good by itself. Carriers are not supposed to be by themselves. Sure it's nice to have a carrier against a lot of other protoss units but you lose more than you gain from an additional carrier or two because of all the map control and teching.
The same that applies for a voidray does not apply for carrier. SC2 voidray is like a beefed-up wraith in BW TvT. SC2 carrier is like a beefed up battlecruiser in BW TvT. Tech switching to carrier with that intent shows a lack of familiarity with sc2, but that's understandable given the age of the game. Use voidrays and convert your advantage into something else.
If you want to improve your game instantly, approach matches with the greatest hesitation to tech and an even greater desire to win. You will learn so much.
Ask Stork about carrier teching
So I been using this as a standard build, and I present you with......
Four Gate Domination Special!
Those are two replays, first one from laddering and second one from a 1000pt diamond, arguably not the best player, but so am I. On a similar skill level I was able to hold off their 4 gate.
Replay 1: PvP, metalpolis, 4 gate
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1625
I got a sentry as soon as I realized that 4 gate was coming. As you can see, one carrier literally held off the 4 gate rush. Speaking of hero carrier.
Lesson learned: 1 carrier + 2 cannon can defend against a 4 gate rush
Also this is a pretty crazy come back game.
Replay 2 PvP
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1626
This guy actually 5 gated me, and I got a sentry as soon as I realized what's going on. Some perfect sentry micro and some shitty carrier micro later (lost 2 carriers, including one with 15 kills on it)
I believe each of my carrier has at least 10 kills, more like 15. that's 1500+ mineral and 500+ gas for each of those carrier. Speaking of cost effectiveness.
Reason why I think this works ESPECIALLY well against 4 gate (not as well as robo)
1. Your fodder unit (stalkers) don't die as fast
2. Stalkers are terrible against carriers.
3. PvP build wise, your carrier can come out even faster because scouting is not needed. Carrier + stalker + sentry + cannon can handle pretty much anything P has before 8 minutes. Besides initial scouting to make sure your opponent aren't proxying, that's pretty much it.
The only PvP build I have trouble with is fast colossus into blink stalkers.
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Refallen (1400~P) pulled something like this off in a custom game vT yesterday. 1base carrier -> 2 base carrier/mothership.
I'm not sure if T just played awful but it was pretty hilarious all the same.
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Just did another test in the unit tester. I let the carrier attack a mothership without autobuilding interceptors (interceptor die in two attack from mothership, 8 attack from stalker. Interceptor DO NOT have shields.
Now, If I do the interceptors recall trick by pressing S and move away, interceptor still die in 8 shot even after going back to drone bay. However, if I recall and wait for 10 minutes, interceptors seem to be repaired.
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Ya I did this twice last night vs. Terran and then zerg. Terran went tank/marine zerg tried for mutaling... crushed both... the terran push came a bit late but he was already in my base before my carrier came out. However, my build was all kinds of messed up and the carrier came out almost a full minute after it did in the zerg game. Vs. Terran my first carrier had 38 kills, vs. zerg the first one had 61 kills. Its definitely fun, but it doesnt feel like it could transition smoothly into midgame. I think on the right maps (Meta, DO, LT, Delta) it would be incredibly difficult to stop this build without playing defensively (like building some counter to carriers). On the right maps, the carrier player has a big micro advantage because... well... they can fly.
In YABOT afterwards I did a weird variation that seemed to make all the gas fit perfectly once the first carrier went out. I went 9 pylon 10 gas 13 or 14 gate (cant remember) and 13 or 14 gas
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Another unit tester investigation on phoenix vs. viking
I always gets one phoneix agaisnt viking (phx = 150-100, viking = 150-75)
1v1, phoneix actually defeat viking with 20 hp left, and if 1+ weapon upgrade is used, with 60hp left.
Therefore, I recommend a phoenix to be built for scouting in PvT.
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This is so amateur. Vikings out range phoenix and out micro them rather easily. Phoenix are much better scouts and shouldn't try to fight Vikings. And its so funny you're fighting so hard to be right.
VR > Phoenix
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On October 01 2010 15:23 Roaming wrote:
This is so amateur. Vikings out range phoenix and out micro them rather easily. Phoenix are much better scouts and shouldn't try to fight Vikings. And its so funny you're fighting so hard to be right.
VR > Phoenix
Try it in the unit tester. You may be surprised. Also phoenix can outrun viking, which means viking cannot kite phoenix if you commit an attack. This is of course assume there's no ground forces supporting each unit.
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Some new observations
1. My original build is too much on the safe side and may not hit a good timing window. I been experimenting with opting for a sentry first instead of stalker and lay down a cannon at the same time. Sentry + cannon is effective against very early pushes (like the 3 marauder + 4 marines push).
Additionally, I also get wrap gate after stargate, as a result my carrier now comes out at 8:30 instead of 9:30, I will play around more and post an updated BO. Of course this now requires pretty good force field and is not good for novice.
2. Nydus worm is all the rage now. I used to not build anything against Z and just head straight to carrier, but now I would get a phoenix first so you can get rid of the spotting overlords.
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Hey,
I have read this topic 2 weeks ago and was using this carrier strat for that time, started from costume up to some diamond league.
I must say, that i have a high sucess rate with it in 1000 diamond, espacilly in PVZ and PVT, i find it extremly usefull against hydralisks build or even early muta, not talking about early MM builds which it rapes very easily.
The carrier just rip everything with those low hp pretty fast, and my micro does the rest.
Only problem im realy having is in PVP, since its much harder to take down P units due to their high ammount of HP & shields.
and hes ground army is usually bigger in terms of stalkers or zealots, which take mine before the carrier get much kills.
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dude I dont mean to be a dick or anything but I played against a guy only yesterday who tried this build and since I only read this thread today I find it funny that i was able to beat this guy so easily.
I dont know maybe that guy just wasnt doing it right or something but I owned him pretty hard. I hellion harassed him early on with okay micro and by the time he came with his push i had 10-12 marines 8 hellions 2 banshees and 2 vikings on the way.
Banshees owned stalkers.
Hellions owned zealots
rines held of carrier until vikings arived.
At that point it was pretty much gg. I still had both banshees 3 hellions and a few marines + new units that had been waiting + a near suturated expansion and minerals to spare.
I dont even play toss and I dont think this is very effective. Not against terran anyway. Too many things have to go right and too much resources get spent early on to get only 1 unit. Im not at home right now but i can post a replay later if you want
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On October 04 2010 16:22 eu.exodus wrote:
dude I dont mean to be a dick or anything but I played against a guy only yesterday who tried this build and since I only read this thread today I find it funny that i was able to beat this guy so easily.
I dont know maybe that guy just wasnt doing it right or something but I owned him pretty hard. I hellion harassed him early on with okay micro and by the time he came with his push i had 10-12 marines 8 hellions 2 banshees and 2 vikings on the way.
Banshees owned stalkers.
Hellions owned zealots
rines held of carrier until vikings arived.
At that point it was pretty much gg. I still had both banshees 3 hellions and a few marines + new units that had been waiting + a near suturated expansion and minerals to spare.
I dont even play toss and I dont think this is very effective. Not against terran anyway. Too many things have to go right and too much resources get spent early on to get only 1 unit. Im not at home right now but i can post a replay later if you want
replay would be nice. I never faced anything like that, and a lot of people make the mistake of overbuilding stalkers. I can't emphasis how important it is to mass zealots.
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I updated with one new replay and some new info I've gathered from play with this build all day everyday. Also, carrier sucks against zerg now that I am playing better Zs, so don't use this build against Z!
Zerg can actually do a wall in with 3 evo + queen and spine crawler that completely nullify this build, not to mention the mutalisks.
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One more rep added
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1834
This is another replay of my one base carrier beating a diamond 1100pt opponent. As you can see he went with 3 gate robo.
I made a few blunder in this build (blocking in my own sentry) and was behind from the get go. But I managed to pull back and won based on pure micro as well as a clutch forcefield that trapped his immortal.
Overall a very action filled game. Guy also left with GGing.
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Updated with some of the finest terran tears.
So since I been having some really good results with this build against T I decided to off race as Z. I was of course rolled over by MMM because I was not experienced enough with fungal. I asked for a rematch, and my opponent simply went "nah". I explained that I was off racing and main P, then he proceeded to say "P is too easy try I only play TvT". He then explained that MMM is so good that there is no counter to it.
Well, I beg to differ, and told him I have a strat pretty much hard counter MMM. He of course laughed at this and said that tester got rolled by MMM. I replied that tester never did this build (why would a toss hero n00b cheese like this?)
He reluctantly agreed to a rematch, and I got to witness some of the finest terran QQ. He actually put me on ignored list after the match.
Guy's APM is roughly 3 times mine and he DID scout my stargate AND fleet beacon and laid down missile turrets. Unfortunately MMM just wasn't enough in his case. I imagine you have a very small timing window to scout and pump viking. I know that 2 viking isn't enough against this build.
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/2046
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Well played, but I want to bring up some concerns with your replay against the Terran. It was a blind build order win because he went 1 rax FE. You didn't even scout him once in which case a simple cloaked banshee would've man handled your econ maybe to make halt carrier (or at least graviton) production.
He didn't even get medivacs out so it's not a win against MMM, but against MM. Also, close positions helped incredibly as close air or cross spawns would've slowed down your push enough for him to get more units out.
Also, ATo doesn't play TvT...its his worst match up. He was obvi trolling you, but it's not like you would know otherwise.
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On November 03 2010 08:26 FrodaN wrote:
Well played, but I want to bring up some concerns with your replay against the Terran. It was a blind build order win because he went 1 rax FE. You didn't even scout him once in which case a simple cloaked banshee would've man handled your econ maybe to make halt carrier (or at least graviton) production.
He didn't even get medivacs out so it's not a win against MMM, but against MM. Also, close positions helped incredibly as close air or cross spawns would've slowed down your push enough for him to get more units out.
Also, ATo doesn't play TvT...its his worst match up. He was obvi trolling you, but it's not like you would know otherwise.
Whoever this ATo guy is, he's got some manner issues.
Also, this build is cheese, plain and simple. It's very all in, but a good one. I also have a replay in the thread against a terran player with cloaked banshee + viking + marine (he knew it was coming because it was our second rematch)
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Bahaha I never saw this. I had a 1 base carrier strat in the beta that was much stronger than what you listed now (technically then). Should have just searched for other one base carrier topics^^.
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On November 03 2010 08:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
Bahaha I never saw this. I had a 1 base carrier strat in the beta that was much stronger than what you listed now (technically then). Should have just searched for other one base carrier topics^^.
enlighten me. My way is not the fastest way to get carrier but it let you have a sentry and some gateway units to hold out.
No offense, but I honestly don't think there is much more potential in improving a one base carrier build. If carrier comes out later you will be pwned by vikings on one base, if it comes out earlier you would be pwned by early bio pushes.
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On November 03 2010 09:01 Protoss_Carrier wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 08:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
Bahaha I never saw this. I had a 1 base carrier strat in the beta that was much stronger than what you listed now (technically then). Should have just searched for other one base carrier topics^^. enlighten me. My way is not the fastest way to get carrier but it let you have a sentry and some gateway units to hold out. No offense, but I honestly don't think there is much more potential in improving a one base carrier build. If carrier comes out later you will be pwned by vikings on one base, if it comes out earlier you would be pwned by early bio pushes.
No offense? You seem pretty damn sure of yourself. I already know the timings, I played it at the top of the ladder and made a topic on it already, but thanks your highness.
If you must know, it starts off as well with Zealot then sentry. However, you don't get warp gate tech, as there is literally utterly no reason for you to be getting them. It also recommends you proxy it in a corner of your base. You get a fast second gas and by the time your carrier pops it coincides with +2 air attacks, yet all the timings are nearly the same as yours. You have two sentries to hold off bio attacks. You carrier has 32 dmg more firepower and comes out nearly identical times, making it much more viable at fighting vikings.
Thx. No offense, but your build is subpar to mine.
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On November 03 2010 09:09 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 09:01 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 08:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
Bahaha I never saw this. I had a 1 base carrier strat in the beta that was much stronger than what you listed now (technically then). Should have just searched for other one base carrier topics^^. enlighten me. My way is not the fastest way to get carrier but it let you have a sentry and some gateway units to hold out. No offense, but I honestly don't think there is much more potential in improving a one base carrier build. If carrier comes out later you will be pwned by vikings on one base, if it comes out earlier you would be pwned by early bio pushes. No offense? You seem pretty damn sure of yourself. I already know the timings, I played it at the top of the ladder and made a topic on it already, but thanks your highness.
So why not link him to the topic instead of being a dick about it?
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On November 03 2010 09:09 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 09:01 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 08:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
Bahaha I never saw this. I had a 1 base carrier strat in the beta that was much stronger than what you listed now (technically then). Should have just searched for other one base carrier topics^^. enlighten me. My way is not the fastest way to get carrier but it let you have a sentry and some gateway units to hold out. No offense, but I honestly don't think there is much more potential in improving a one base carrier build. If carrier comes out later you will be pwned by vikings on one base, if it comes out earlier you would be pwned by early bio pushes. No offense? You seem pretty damn sure of yourself. I already know the timings, I played it at the top of the ladder and made a topic on it already, but thanks your highness. If you must know, it starts off as well with Zealot then sentry. However, you don't get warp gate tech, as there is literally utterly no reason for you to be getting them. It also recommends you proxy it in a corner of your base. You get a fast second gas and by the time your carrier pops it coincides with +2 air attacks, yet all the timings are nearly the same as yours. You have two sentries to hold off bio attacks. You carrier has 32 dmg more firepower and comes out nearly identical times, making it much more viable at fighting vikings. Thx. No offense, but your build is subpar to mine.
sounds like a good build, except that you rely a bit too much on carrier. I often use wrap gate to reinforce my gateway army. Carrier merely act as a spotter for me to wrap on to high ground.
I have some doubt about the stability of a build with no wrap gate and putting all egg into one basket. Plus you gain more DPS by building gate way unit rather than air attack level 2.
I've experimented with air attacks and realized that it doesn't work.
A little bit of humbleness instead of attitude may have helped your case, as well as an actual build orders with replays.
Here is the thing, you use that one carrier to bust your way into the terran base. Its DPS doesn't really matter.
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On November 03 2010 09:21 Protoss_Carrier wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 09:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 03 2010 09:01 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 08:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
Bahaha I never saw this. I had a 1 base carrier strat in the beta that was much stronger than what you listed now (technically then). Should have just searched for other one base carrier topics^^. enlighten me. My way is not the fastest way to get carrier but it let you have a sentry and some gateway units to hold out. No offense, but I honestly don't think there is much more potential in improving a one base carrier build. If carrier comes out later you will be pwned by vikings on one base, if it comes out earlier you would be pwned by early bio pushes. No offense? You seem pretty damn sure of yourself. I already know the timings, I played it at the top of the ladder and made a topic on it already, but thanks your highness. If you must know, it starts off as well with Zealot then sentry. However, you don't get warp gate tech, as there is literally utterly no reason for you to be getting them. It also recommends you proxy it in a corner of your base. You get a fast second gas and by the time your carrier pops it coincides with +2 air attacks, yet all the timings are nearly the same as yours. You have two sentries to hold off bio attacks. You carrier has 32 dmg more firepower and comes out nearly identical times, making it much more viable at fighting vikings. Thx. No offense, but your build is subpar to mine. sounds like a good build, except that you rely a bit too much on carrier. I often use wrap gate to reinforce my gateway army. Carrier merely act as a spotter for me to wrap on to high ground. I have some doubt about the stability of a build with no wrap gate and putting all egg into one basket. Plus you gain more DPS by building gate way unit rather than air attack level 2. I've experimented with air attacks and realized that it doesn't work. A little bit of humbleness instead of attitude may have helped your case, as well as an actual build orders with replays. Here is the thing, you use that one carrier to bust your way into the terran base. Its DPS doesn't really matter.
I don't know why you're even trying a bust is the problem. You don't need a bust to win, if you've experimented with the build at all. The few seconds shaved off gateway units is completely irrelevant when your carrier is killing it's enemies much faster, and you're using a continual carrier pump. It's not exactly hard to search "1 base carrier" to find my topic, which I already claimed I had made, quite a bit before you in fact. I believe it's your fault for not searching before creating a topic, not my fault for not providing you with the link. And I've used this build on at least 3 Terrans that are consistently in the top 200, two of which are consistently between 75-100.
I'd say you're build is far more risky, promoting a bust and not upgrading air weapons when you are IN FACT completely reliant on the carrier. My build expands nearly as soon as the carrier pops out. The entire "all-in" relies in the fact they don't scout the carrier. You easily transition into a macro game following it.
And the lack of humility was only in your blind refusal to accept a build could be better than yours. "No offense."
Here's your link as you've failed to search still
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128716
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When cyber is done: get one zealot, research wrap gate, start saving up chronoboost
- do not research wrap gate yet!
/facepalm
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On November 03 2010 10:49 shammythefox wrote:
When cyber is done: get one zealot, research wrap gate, start saving up chronoboost
- do not research wrap gate yet!
/facepalm
you don't need wrap gate at that moment since you are relying on sentry.
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On November 03 2010 10:46 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 09:21 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 09:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 03 2010 09:01 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 08:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
Bahaha I never saw this. I had a 1 base carrier strat in the beta that was much stronger than what you listed now (technically then). Should have just searched for other one base carrier topics^^. enlighten me. My way is not the fastest way to get carrier but it let you have a sentry and some gateway units to hold out. No offense, but I honestly don't think there is much more potential in improving a one base carrier build. If carrier comes out later you will be pwned by vikings on one base, if it comes out earlier you would be pwned by early bio pushes. No offense? You seem pretty damn sure of yourself. I already know the timings, I played it at the top of the ladder and made a topic on it already, but thanks your highness. If you must know, it starts off as well with Zealot then sentry. However, you don't get warp gate tech, as there is literally utterly no reason for you to be getting them. It also recommends you proxy it in a corner of your base. You get a fast second gas and by the time your carrier pops it coincides with +2 air attacks, yet all the timings are nearly the same as yours. You have two sentries to hold off bio attacks. You carrier has 32 dmg more firepower and comes out nearly identical times, making it much more viable at fighting vikings. Thx. No offense, but your build is subpar to mine. sounds like a good build, except that you rely a bit too much on carrier. I often use wrap gate to reinforce my gateway army. Carrier merely act as a spotter for me to wrap on to high ground. I have some doubt about the stability of a build with no wrap gate and putting all egg into one basket. Plus you gain more DPS by building gate way unit rather than air attack level 2. I've experimented with air attacks and realized that it doesn't work. A little bit of humbleness instead of attitude may have helped your case, as well as an actual build orders with replays. Here is the thing, you use that one carrier to bust your way into the terran base. Its DPS doesn't really matter. I don't know why you're even trying a bust is the problem. You don't need a bust to win, if you've experimented with the build at all. The few seconds shaved off gateway units is completely irrelevant when your carrier is killing it's enemies much faster, and you're using a continual carrier pump. It's not exactly hard to search "1 base carrier" to find my topic, which I already claimed I had made, quite a bit before you in fact. I believe it's your fault for not searching before creating a topic, not my fault for not providing you with the link. And I've used this build on at least 3 Terrans that are consistently in the top 200, two of which are consistently between 75-100. I'd say you're build is far more risky, promoting a bust and not upgrading air weapons when you are IN FACT completely reliant on the carrier. My build expands nearly as soon as the carrier pops out. The entire "all-in" relies in the fact they don't scout the carrier. You easily transition into a macro game following it. And the lack of humility was only in your blind refusal to accept a build could be better than yours. "No offense." Here's your link as you've failed to search still http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128716
congrats at being able to be at top of the ladder.
Each build has pros and cons and are completely different. I failed to see why I must post under your thread, especially since my strategy is completely different.
I am sure you can have many different builds all centered around reaver, that doesn't mean no one should make a new post about it.
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why don't we let the mods handle this issue guys... either way he spent the time to write this no need to bash even if it's not a great strategy.
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I would just like to point out how the OP is crying for someone to notice him and give him some recognition for ANYTHING. You can't disagree with him without being wrong. And he acts like he's doing nothing but carrier rushes, which isn't true. I doubt he even played BW 12 years ago. He's just some kid who stops posting on a handle when he gets busted out too much for not knowing anything, who obviously spends more time here posting about carriers and trying to prove that his wins are valid.
One base carrier, fine. But take all the garbage lies out and clean up your thread. Your build order isn't even able to be digested quickly. You have to read two paragraphs to figure it out and at the end of the day, if you actually watched the day9 special on carriers (which came before your posts... interesting) you'd get more advice than this entire thread^2.
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On November 03 2010 10:46 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 09:21 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 09:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 03 2010 09:01 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 08:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
Bahaha I never saw this. I had a 1 base carrier strat in the beta that was much stronger than what you listed now (technically then). Should have just searched for other one base carrier topics^^. enlighten me. My way is not the fastest way to get carrier but it let you have a sentry and some gateway units to hold out. No offense, but I honestly don't think there is much more potential in improving a one base carrier build. If carrier comes out later you will be pwned by vikings on one base, if it comes out earlier you would be pwned by early bio pushes. No offense? You seem pretty damn sure of yourself. I already know the timings, I played it at the top of the ladder and made a topic on it already, but thanks your highness. If you must know, it starts off as well with Zealot then sentry. However, you don't get warp gate tech, as there is literally utterly no reason for you to be getting them. It also recommends you proxy it in a corner of your base. You get a fast second gas and by the time your carrier pops it coincides with +2 air attacks, yet all the timings are nearly the same as yours. You have two sentries to hold off bio attacks. You carrier has 32 dmg more firepower and comes out nearly identical times, making it much more viable at fighting vikings. Thx. No offense, but your build is subpar to mine. sounds like a good build, except that you rely a bit too much on carrier. I often use wrap gate to reinforce my gateway army. Carrier merely act as a spotter for me to wrap on to high ground. I have some doubt about the stability of a build with no wrap gate and putting all egg into one basket. Plus you gain more DPS by building gate way unit rather than air attack level 2. I've experimented with air attacks and realized that it doesn't work. A little bit of humbleness instead of attitude may have helped your case, as well as an actual build orders with replays. Here is the thing, you use that one carrier to bust your way into the terran base. Its DPS doesn't really matter. I don't know why you're even trying a bust is the problem. You don't need a bust to win, if you've experimented with the build at all. The few seconds shaved off gateway units is completely irrelevant when your carrier is killing it's enemies much faster, and you're using a continual carrier pump. It's not exactly hard to search "1 base carrier" to find my topic, which I already claimed I had made, quite a bit before you in fact. I believe it's your fault for not searching before creating a topic, not my fault for not providing you with the link. And I've used this build on at least 3 Terrans that are consistently in the top 200, two of which are consistently between 75-100. I'd say you're build is far more risky, promoting a bust and not upgrading air weapons when you are IN FACT completely reliant on the carrier. My build expands nearly as soon as the carrier pops out. The entire "all-in" relies in the fact they don't scout the carrier. You easily transition into a macro game following it. And the lack of humility was only in your blind refusal to accept a build could be better than yours. "No offense." Here's your link as you've failed to search still http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128716
There is so much BM in all your posts it makes me weep. That post is so old that it's completely understandable that he made a new one. No need to be such a raging bitch about something so trivial.
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Just looking through this, a question comes to mind:
you say that you can hold off a banshee rush, yet there's not a hint of detection in your build. What do you do when those banshees cloak?
(I know whenever I rush banshees V toss, I get cloak, then double pump them)
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On November 03 2010 12:24 Selkie wrote:
Just looking through this, a question comes to mind:
you say that you can hold off a banshee rush, yet there's not a hint of detection in your build. What do you do when those banshees cloak?
(I know whenever I rush banshees V toss, I get cloak, then double pump them)
He builds a robo in 1 out of 4 games at random to stop this.
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I must be a genius because I just randomly build robo whenever my opponent goes banshee! Mind blown...
No, I build a phoenix every game and rally it straight toward terran's base and then fly around map. If I scout a banshee I just lay down a robo right the way. The timing is such that the observer will just pop out when the banshee comes out.
Also, roaming, you seem to have a very personal issue against me. We can resolve this via PM, no need to have personal attacks.
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Notice he didn't say I was incorrect about any of it. And I have problems with people who lie about credentials and try to give bad advice.
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On November 03 2010 12:46 Roaming wrote:
Notice he didn't say I was incorrect about any of it. And I have problems with people who lie about credentials and try to give bad advice.
You were indeed incorrect. Throwing down a robo was not random but result of scouting.
Please, why don't you quote stuff I got wrong here, and I'll change them so TL community will no longer get bad advice? If not, we can resolve this over PM.
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How does this build hold off any early terran aggression? it seems like you will die to any 1 marine 1/2/3 marauder push.
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Please explain to me to advantage to possessing warp technology in the build order. Are we building proxy pylons to warp in reinforcements? No? Are we churning a lot of gateway units? No?
The dumb/simple answer is just "oh, warpgate or way better than gateways, duh," but what exactly are we truly gaining from it?
I suggest you research +1 air weapons BEFORE warp gate, I know it sounds absolutely ridiculous, but +1 upgrades makes the carrier exponentially more powerful. Seeing how each carrier has 8 intercepters, each doing 2 attacks, a +1 air upgrade will give +16 damage for a carrier.
Given that this is such a micro intensive build, I don't see how a 16 health swing WON'T be of utmost importance. It could be the difference between sniping a single anti air ground unit, or not. And I'm not suggesting you skip out warp gate entirely, however, if you were to revise your "timing push" to include +1 air weapons instead of warp gate, then my god that will be extremely potent.
The idea comes to me when I saw a PvP game where one player didn't research warp gate technology in favor of getting colo thermal lancing range faster, so with carriers why can't we do the same thing?
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On November 03 2010 13:07 Zvendetta wrote:
Please explain to me to advantage to possessing warp technology in the build order. Are we building proxy pylons to warp in reinforcements? No? Are we churning a lot of gateway units? No?
The dumb/simple answer is just "oh, warpgate or way better than gateways, duh," but what exactly are we truly gaining from it?
I suggest you research +1 air weapons BEFORE warp gate, I know it sounds absolutely ridiculous, but +1 upgrades makes the carrier exponentially more powerful. Seeing how each carrier has 8 intercepters, each doing 2 attacks, a +1 air upgrade will give +16 damage for a carrier.
Given that this is such a micro intensive build, I don't see how a 16 health swing WON'T be of utmost importance. It could be the difference between sniping a single anti air ground unit, or not. And I'm not suggesting you skip out warp gate entirely, however, if you were to revise your "timing push" to include +1 air weapons instead of warp gate, then my god that will be extremely potent.
The idea comes to me when I saw a PvP game where one player didn't research warp gate technology in favor of getting colo thermal lancing range faster, so with carriers why can't we do the same thing?
Actually I build pylon right below their ramp and wrap into their main with carrier provide vision. It's quite handy for zealot to close in on them!
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On November 03 2010 13:05 stink123 wrote:
How does this build hold off any early terran aggression? it seems like you will die to any 1 marine 1/2/3 marauder push.
there are replays where I've suffered this but turned it around. There are definitely timing window that can be exploited (I think actually around 7min ish, carrier isn't coming out yet and not enough gateway unit around.
But for 1 marine + 2 marauder push Usually sentry and zealot will be able to hold that off.
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On November 03 2010 12:18 Killerbot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 10:46 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 03 2010 09:21 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 09:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 03 2010 09:01 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 08:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
Bahaha I never saw this. I had a 1 base carrier strat in the beta that was much stronger than what you listed now (technically then). Should have just searched for other one base carrier topics^^. enlighten me. My way is not the fastest way to get carrier but it let you have a sentry and some gateway units to hold out. No offense, but I honestly don't think there is much more potential in improving a one base carrier build. If carrier comes out later you will be pwned by vikings on one base, if it comes out earlier you would be pwned by early bio pushes. No offense? You seem pretty damn sure of yourself. I already know the timings, I played it at the top of the ladder and made a topic on it already, but thanks your highness. If you must know, it starts off as well with Zealot then sentry. However, you don't get warp gate tech, as there is literally utterly no reason for you to be getting them. It also recommends you proxy it in a corner of your base. You get a fast second gas and by the time your carrier pops it coincides with +2 air attacks, yet all the timings are nearly the same as yours. You have two sentries to hold off bio attacks. You carrier has 32 dmg more firepower and comes out nearly identical times, making it much more viable at fighting vikings. Thx. No offense, but your build is subpar to mine. sounds like a good build, except that you rely a bit too much on carrier. I often use wrap gate to reinforce my gateway army. Carrier merely act as a spotter for me to wrap on to high ground. I have some doubt about the stability of a build with no wrap gate and putting all egg into one basket. Plus you gain more DPS by building gate way unit rather than air attack level 2. I've experimented with air attacks and realized that it doesn't work. A little bit of humbleness instead of attitude may have helped your case, as well as an actual build orders with replays. Here is the thing, you use that one carrier to bust your way into the terran base. Its DPS doesn't really matter. I don't know why you're even trying a bust is the problem. You don't need a bust to win, if you've experimented with the build at all. The few seconds shaved off gateway units is completely irrelevant when your carrier is killing it's enemies much faster, and you're using a continual carrier pump. It's not exactly hard to search "1 base carrier" to find my topic, which I already claimed I had made, quite a bit before you in fact. I believe it's your fault for not searching before creating a topic, not my fault for not providing you with the link. And I've used this build on at least 3 Terrans that are consistently in the top 200, two of which are consistently between 75-100. I'd say you're build is far more risky, promoting a bust and not upgrading air weapons when you are IN FACT completely reliant on the carrier. My build expands nearly as soon as the carrier pops out. The entire "all-in" relies in the fact they don't scout the carrier. You easily transition into a macro game following it. And the lack of humility was only in your blind refusal to accept a build could be better than yours. "No offense." Here's your link as you've failed to search still http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128716 There is so much BM in all your posts it makes me weep. That post is so old that it's completely understandable that he made a new one. No need to be such a raging bitch about something so trivial.
its a one base carrier build, and so is the other, if the other ones so old he can add his to that thread and start testing both to see strengths and weaknesses
as for upgrades, id suggest a shields +1 instead of a air/ground attack +1 because it benefits both the carrier and the army
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On November 03 2010 13:01 Protoss_Carrier wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 12:46 Roaming wrote:
Notice he didn't say I was incorrect about any of it. And I have problems with people who lie about credentials and try to give bad advice. Please, why don't you quote stuff I got wrong here
On September 25 2010 13:38 Protoss_Carrier wrote: This is only good against T
Latest update: 10/17 http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/2112This is a replay of me against a player who has much higher points than me on the ladder. As you can see blink stalker has map control and is an effective counter. I am not doing this as a part of Day 9 exercise. In fact, I been doing this for a long time, ever since I first touched the control of a carrier 12 years ago, I could not stop. Today I am going to present you the very precise timing I've deduced, allowing a carrier push arrive at enemy base at approximately 10 min well backed up by ground forces. I suscept this strategy is a good counter of the prevalent banshee raven marauder play seen in GSL lately. This is a micro-intensive build First off, replays. http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1524This is a PVP game I played on scrap station. I have well abused the carrier mobility, shutting down a drop as well as reducing enemy stalker numbers. http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1525This is a PvZ game I played against a 1100 diamond player (I am 952 myself). He even took a super early greedy gold expansion (before pool), and went hydra, but was not able to stop the push. Mass hydra is not the answer to this strategy. More Replays http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1540http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1541First game I lost to a Z Second game I won a PvP on scrap station, demostrating that this build can hold off some aggression. http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1834This is another replay of my one base carrier beating a diamond 1100pt opponent. As you can see he went with 3 gate robo. I made a few blunder in this build (blocking in my own sentry) and was behind from the get go. But I managed to pull back and won based on pure micro as well as a clutch forcefield that trapped his immortal. Overall a very action filled game. Guy also left with GGing. Part I Build order (updated 10/4) A game with the new BO http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1823I opted for a fast stalker so I don't die against reaper. But reaper now have really fallen out of favor and you should most likely get a sentry first. Why I updated it: I been opting for an even earlier push as I became a better player micro-wise. A lot of my previous build have unnecessary safe redundancy. I also opted out against phoenix scouting because a faster carrier will defeat banshee harass anyway (if you can stall that long) New BO (edited 10/13), this is the result of hundreds of games played. I don't think I can get more efficient than this. - my most recent replay illustrate this BO
9 pylon
12 gate
14 gas
16 pylon
- save chronoboost at 18
Cyber as soon as mineral becomes available
2nd gas as soon as mineral becomes available
When cyber is done: get one zealot, research wrap gate, start saving up chronoboost
- do not research wrap gate yet!
- at this point you should be at 22 supply, build two more probes then stop probe production
- build one sentry after the zealot is out, chronoboost it. This is the only chronoboost you will use from this point on if not harassed, save all the rest for carrier
- continuously produce zealot after
Stargate as soon as resource is available
two more gate way as soon as resource is available, add pylon as needed
- continue to produce zealot
Produce a fleet beacon as soon as stargate is done.
Produce a phoenix to scout for banshee
Produce carrier as soon as resource is ready
- continue to produce zealot until 150 gas is saved up, at this point research graviton catapult
Carrier out at 8:30 (with my new perfected BO carrier is out at 8 min) usually, select all gateway units and have them follow your carrier to maintain formation - send out a probe to construct proxy pylon for reinforcement. Ideally below their ramp so you can reinforce right into their main Note about viking: kill them first, and because carrier have 14 range after interceptors are launched (2 from interceptor, 8 from carrier, you can actually kite unmicroed vikings, as seen in replay) Part II Microing your units Retreat your carrier as soon as it gets focus fired, and definitely retreat when your rush begin to lose steam. Carrier micro - Carrier has 8 range when releasing interceptors, and the range becomes 14 as the interceptors are out. Move the carrier back as soon as interceptors have been released, and they will continue to acquire new targets - Sometimes letting your opponent to target fire carrier a bit can draw fire away from your ground troops, but don't over do it! - It's possible to precharge void ray on your carrier. Part III What if my rush failed? This is extremely all in, BTW, it's hard to come back if your carrier is shot down. Regroup and retreat right the way. You should have excess mineral, so throw down some forge right the way and park carrier above cannons. Continue to make ground force or transition into high temp + carrier. Immediately commence a second push when your second carrier is out. As long as you managed to keep your first carrier (and sometimes even if you didn't), your rush will still be successful. What if I got rushed? use force field to hold off. Part IV Why don't I just make a mothership? This comes out earlier than mothership and has more direct assualt fire power than mothership. You can 1A most terran with it. Also, in the end, I like to end with some terran tears. http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1526QQing Terran. EDITED: update last replay EDITED: so I understand my basic built was not optimal and from now on I will adapt the 9 pylon 12 gate basic build and chronoboost after 9 pylon is done. EDITED: phoenix vs. void ray. I been modifying my build and build phoenix instead of void ray. Reason 1: phoenix allow some scoutting, making your build more robost against other all-ins Reason 2: phoneix can help defend by graviton beam earlier than v ray can come out. I imagine this can make a difference in some cases, especially my revision build has a cannon at ramp Reason 3: main push comes out a bit faster Reason 4: void ray is not cost effective if not charged. 9/29/10 EDIT: Four Gate Domination Special!Those are two replays, first one from laddering and second one from a 1000pt diamond, arguably not the best player, but so am I. On a similar skill level I was able to hold off their 4 gate. Replay 1: PvP, metalpolis, 4 gate http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1625I got a sentry as soon as I realized that 4 gate was coming. As you can see, one carrier literally held off the 4 gate rush. Speaking of hero carrier. Lesson learned: 1 carrier + 2 cannon can defend against a 4 gate rush Replay 2 PvP http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/1626This guy actually 5 gated me, and I got a sentry as soon as I realized what's going on. Some perfect sentry micro and some shitty carrier micro later (lost 2 carriers, including one with 15 kills on it) I believe each of my carrier has at least 10 kills, more like 15. that's 1500+ mineral and 500+ gas for each of those carrier. Speaking of cost effectiveness. 10/13 EDIT Updated with some of the finest terran tears. So since I been having some really good results with this build against T I decided to off race as Z. I was of course rolled over by MMM because I was not experienced enough with fungal. I asked for a rematch, and my opponent simply went "nah". I explained that I was off racing and main P, then he proceeded to say "P is too easy try I only play TvT". He then explained that MMM is so good that there is no counter to it. Well, I beg to differ, and told him I have a strat pretty much hard counter MMM. He of course laughed at this and said that tester got rolled by MMM. I replied that tester never did this build (why would a toss hero n00b cheese like this?) He reluctantly agreed to a rematch, and I got to witness some of the finest terran QQ. He actually put me on ignored list after the match. Guy's APM is roughly 3 times mine and he DID scout my stargate AND fleet beacon and laid down missile turrets. Unfortunately MMM just wasn't enough in his case. I imagine you have a very small timing window to scout and pump viking. I know that 2 viking isn't enough against this build. http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/2046
That pretty much sums it up. Its just newbiefest of a 10th grader posting about his hero games when he first got into diamond. You're talking about the kill count of your units and how you school people on b.net who are hurt so bad by you they put you on ignore, in your replay descriptions. How is this anything but a massive narcissistic rant by a child? Post the other 50% of your games where you get stompped if you want to actually engage in something other than "LOOK HOW AWESOME, I BEAT SOMEONE 200 POINTS ABOVE ME". Post something constructive that's not lost in a flood of garbage.
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Thanks for the suggestion, I have edited the text to make it more professional. I would also appreciate if mod can step in and stop the repeated personal attack.
Most likely my last time updating with replays. I am a busy medical student and my level of play certainly isn't going to get much better than this.
Included are two replays played against the same opponent, which I lost to with a 2 gate robo build
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/3033
He laughed upon spotting the carrier. This is the usual first impression
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/3034
We decided to rm again, with him knowing me doing this build. Instead of more viking he opted for a banshee rush, which was scouted and failed.
Take home lesson: while many protoss claim that robo is a must, it's possible to scout banshee rush in time with phoenix.
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Dear Protoss_Carrier pls post a replay with this biuld that u beat IA terran on very hard, it doesnt work on AI i guess lol.
if u block ramp with zealot when he tries to scout he will come with 5-6-7 reapers, if he scoutes he will make 3rax timing push, since i find out this, my first gateway unit was senty to be abble to collect energy for dbl FF then zealot then 1 more sentry, i cut the phoenix since i dont need it to scout i know he will go 3rax timing push.
my carrier arrived at 8:18 game time then he had 9 marrines+6marrauders at my base and 5more marrines+2marrouders coming to my base.
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This strat auto loses 3 times out of every 10 games due to cloak banshee opening. Other than that, it seems to be a pretty valid strat.
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On November 03 2010 12:18 Killerbot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 10:46 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 03 2010 09:21 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 09:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 03 2010 09:01 Protoss_Carrier wrote:On November 03 2010 08:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
Bahaha I never saw this. I had a 1 base carrier strat in the beta that was much stronger than what you listed now (technically then). Should have just searched for other one base carrier topics^^. enlighten me. My way is not the fastest way to get carrier but it let you have a sentry and some gateway units to hold out. No offense, but I honestly don't think there is much more potential in improving a one base carrier build. If carrier comes out later you will be pwned by vikings on one base, if it comes out earlier you would be pwned by early bio pushes. No offense? You seem pretty damn sure of yourself. I already know the timings, I played it at the top of the ladder and made a topic on it already, but thanks your highness. If you must know, it starts off as well with Zealot then sentry. However, you don't get warp gate tech, as there is literally utterly no reason for you to be getting them. It also recommends you proxy it in a corner of your base. You get a fast second gas and by the time your carrier pops it coincides with +2 air attacks, yet all the timings are nearly the same as yours. You have two sentries to hold off bio attacks. You carrier has 32 dmg more firepower and comes out nearly identical times, making it much more viable at fighting vikings. Thx. No offense, but your build is subpar to mine. sounds like a good build, except that you rely a bit too much on carrier. I often use wrap gate to reinforce my gateway army. Carrier merely act as a spotter for me to wrap on to high ground. I have some doubt about the stability of a build with no wrap gate and putting all egg into one basket. Plus you gain more DPS by building gate way unit rather than air attack level 2. I've experimented with air attacks and realized that it doesn't work. A little bit of humbleness instead of attitude may have helped your case, as well as an actual build orders with replays. Here is the thing, you use that one carrier to bust your way into the terran base. Its DPS doesn't really matter. I don't know why you're even trying a bust is the problem. You don't need a bust to win, if you've experimented with the build at all. The few seconds shaved off gateway units is completely irrelevant when your carrier is killing it's enemies much faster, and you're using a continual carrier pump. It's not exactly hard to search "1 base carrier" to find my topic, which I already claimed I had made, quite a bit before you in fact. I believe it's your fault for not searching before creating a topic, not my fault for not providing you with the link. And I've used this build on at least 3 Terrans that are consistently in the top 200, two of which are consistently between 75-100. I'd say you're build is far more risky, promoting a bust and not upgrading air weapons when you are IN FACT completely reliant on the carrier. My build expands nearly as soon as the carrier pops out. The entire "all-in" relies in the fact they don't scout the carrier. You easily transition into a macro game following it. And the lack of humility was only in your blind refusal to accept a build could be better than yours. "No offense." Here's your link as you've failed to search still http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128716 There is so much BM in all your posts it makes me weep. That post is so old that it's completely understandable that he made a new one. No need to be such a raging bitch about something so trivial.
No, actually, the date of the topic, only a few months prior, has absolutely nothing to do with it being understandable. In short, you're wrong.
Concerning BM, it was a bout with a poster who kept posting theorycraft with absolutely incorrect timings, and he completely refused to watch the replays. He would say something like "4 rax marine would own this" while I had a rep of it working vs 4 rax marines. But really, your post, while debatably GM, is wrong, so I'm not sure who's even better. I'd sooner pick a retaliatory (as in, I didn't randomly start it) slightly BM accurate poster.
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EPT
