EPT
.So looking at a more recent topic, Carriers were discussed and the general opinion was that they were subpar to their SC1 counterpart.
However, I have been messing around with carriers lately, and I've been trying out a 1-base carrier rush. And I mean rushing right to carriers.
I've only lost a single game to another player so far using it, but then again, I only have about ~9 tries vs Diamond ranked players (yet around 30-0 vs plat and below). However, the one game I lost I definitely still could have won, I was just caught with my pants down as two of my carriers were on the wrong side of hte map as a roach/hydra force crushed my natural, and I killed the roach warren stupidly in his base instead of the hydra den, and such. I'm still getting used to playing Protoss as a whole, as I've never played them in the beta really until the last week (Zerg is my main, I was rank 1 Plat in my division and ~1900-1950 before the reset).
The strategy goes...
9 pylon
13 gateway
14 assim
15 assim
17 pylon
18 zealot
get core as soon as minerals allow after zealot, and build a stargate in a remote location in your base you don't think they will scan. as the core finishes, your second unit is a sentry, and immediately after you lay down the stargate you start teching +1 air weapons. as soon as the stargate finishes, a fleet beacon, and then obviously a carrier right after. Chrono the carrier, and it should finish around the time +1 air weapons finishes. You're pumping zealots constantly from your gateway as this is occuring. Don't show the first carrier unless they are rushing and you need it. Also get +2 air weapons as soon as +1 finishes, and get carrier upgrade for fast deployment (almost kills a viking instantly with the first hits).
If you're playing vs Zerg, you get a forge with your excess minerals and expand to a natural with cannons while you move out with two carriers and your zealot/sentry force is to defend at home (the sentry is to FF early rushes and buy times, you'll usually have 2 FF and almost a third ready by the time a typical rush hits).
It works both in PvT and PvZ. Not at all PvP though for obvious reasons. I like to transition into zealot legs
http://www.2shared.com/file/BBsHgnRr/Lost_Temple__157_.html
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PvT vs a Diamond player on LT cross positions. Misses scouting carriers on his first scan. Goes rax with reactor -> factory with tech addon -> starport. Sends first dropship to my base to scout my build, sees carriers, immediately pushes out with 10 rines + 2 tanks before Carrier has finished. Immediately also builds a reactor on his starport to mass vikings. Hold off first push by delaying with FF and carrier mops up 10 marines and two tanks easily by itself.
http://www.2shared.com/file/oz192vID/Lost_Temple__156_.html
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PvZ vs a Diamond player on LT close positions. Goes 13 pool -> expand. After seeing me one base he builds two spine crawlers and has ling speed. Decides to tech to roaches -> roach speed upon lair tech, which is when my Carrier hits. Desperately tries to counter attack my natural with roaches and throw up an evo + hydra den but I easily crush him
http://www.2shared.com/file/xEInhr2r/Python.html
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Not the best player, but ranked Diamond nonetheless. Opens 2rax on Python, although his first rax is late, possibly due to my probe blocking, and transitions into a 4 rax MM combination where he attacks at 70 supply, killing my natural, but my 2 carriers easily mops up his units. I counter attack with now 3 carriers, owning his newly built natural (floated when he pushed out) and his desperately building turrets + viking while building not enough rines from 4 raxes. Easily beaten. As said, not the best play (I think he was rank 89 Diamond), but you can watch for some whiny bitching about it being a "super cheese."
http://www.2shared.com/file/pSXQ7K9o/Metalopolis__34_.html
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Found the guy who I played in this match and got him to make a post, which I'm quoting. He's rank 2 Diamond, and it was literally my FIRST time trying this strategy out on LADDER, as my main race is Zerg, and I was hesitant to try new strategies out as Protoss on a Zerg account. He has very solid play imo, with around 150 APM throughout the game according to the APM counter (although aren't you supposed to multiply it by like 1.3 or something to get the actual amount??). Most likely the most entertaining game, and although it isn't TOO useful the Mothership makes an appearance too! A macro game.
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On June 01 2010 14:48 never_Nal wrote:
I am the Terran on the game at question, I dunno if this build counters my type of fast expo, witch is meant to be somehow as the scbw siege expand, actually almost the same.
Here is my thought process on what I was able to scout, surely I was preparing for void rays, so i just got the engbay and got Hi-Sec auto tracking for the +1 range on my turrets, making my tanks safe to any type of voidray+4gate break, shortly after no attack coming I see Carriers, this is actually super problematic to my build, since I will focus on Factory not Starport, and we all know that Thors DO SUCK against carriers, so I had to change my tech path and game plan, witch affects my entire timings and unit structure, while I am aiming for a 3 fact timing push, where I have 1 tech lab and 2 reactors, and just leapfrog against Protoss ground army, this guy completely demolished my game plan just by going Carriers from 1 base. So since Thors suck against armored air units, Terran needs to get vikings, so this wouldn't be a problem in mid-late game, where I just add the structures pretty easily and quickly, but if the carrier comes as fast as it does on this build, I have to stop producing tanks/factories and star adding starports + viking+ lots of extra micro, not only that but I have to come up with some kind of unit composition to be ready or even have a slight timing against the CarrierBuild, and In fact i really thought I had one, when I was almost 1 shooting the carriers with my viking group, and so I did pushed, and kill a ton of his units, but his ground army owned mine since I was making sooo many Vikings my ground army lacked power and quantity.
I don't think the build is SUPER STRONG, but the follow up is,he knew that I was heavy on vikings therefore my ground army was weak. As I Stated Before I don't know if this build was completely counter to my Siege expo, or if it actually does great against almost every Terran opening
.
If anything is misunderstood please quote and I will gladly explain.
I am the Terran on the game at question, I dunno if this build counters my type of fast expo, witch is meant to be somehow as the scbw siege expand, actually almost the same.
Here is my thought process on what I was able to scout, surely I was preparing for void rays, so i just got the engbay and got Hi-Sec auto tracking for the +1 range on my turrets, making my tanks safe to any type of voidray+4gate break, shortly after no attack coming I see Carriers, this is actually super problematic to my build, since I will focus on Factory not Starport, and we all know that Thors DO SUCK against carriers, so I had to change my tech path and game plan, witch affects my entire timings and unit structure, while I am aiming for a 3 fact timing push, where I have 1 tech lab and 2 reactors, and just leapfrog against Protoss ground army, this guy completely demolished my game plan just by going Carriers from 1 base. So since Thors suck against armored air units, Terran needs to get vikings, so this wouldn't be a problem in mid-late game, where I just add the structures pretty easily and quickly, but if the carrier comes as fast as it does on this build, I have to stop producing tanks/factories and star adding starports + viking+ lots of extra micro, not only that but I have to come up with some kind of unit composition to be ready or even have a slight timing against the CarrierBuild, and In fact i really thought I had one, when I was almost 1 shooting the carriers with my viking group, and so I did pushed, and kill a ton of his units, but his ground army owned mine since I was making sooo many Vikings my ground army lacked power and quantity.
I don't think the build is SUPER STRONG, but the follow up is,he knew that I was heavy on vikings therefore my ground army was weak. As I Stated Before I don't know if this build was completely counter to my Siege expo, or if it actually does great against almost every Terran opening
.If anything is misunderstood please quote and I will gladly explain.
http://www.2shared.com/file/gUEil80c/Lost_Temple__148_.html
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PvT vs a Diamond player on LT. I had already played this player before four games earlier, but didn't realize it at the time. As a result, he remembered my carrier strat and went for an all-in marine push as Terran, adding on up to four raxes on one base and attacking with pure marines before my carrier got out. FF is able to delay for a short timing, but I fuck up using it and I need zealots to buy time. He is able to take out the pylon powering my gateway and get some probe kills, but the first carrier easily wipes out all the remaining marines, and it's a downhill slope from there, where he continues pumping from 4-5 raxes pure marines with slight viking support on 1-base.
http://www.2shared.com/file/-eM1bsqG/Lost_Temple__147_.html
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PvZ vs a Diamond Player (I THINK, IF I recall correctly). He opens 14 pool -> 17 hatch (standard). Is able to scout that I am going fast air and thus drone whores insanely off having only about 4 lings, while getting a few spores for any Phoenix/Void ray he might expect. Transitions into Roach/Hydra (builds both buildings at the same time) and moves out to my natural to break it at the exact time my Carriers are hitting his natural. I do some dmg to him at the natural while I'm able to hold off his attack despite not having carriers there (had three photon cannons + FF usage moved him back). He immediately expands to the Gold afterwards and continues Roach/Hydra, which works fairly decently until I can build up my carrier numbers as well as simply just build up unit count. You really see my inexperience as Protoss as I try to use forcefields well and simply suck. I am barely able to expand to my third as I mine out my main and almost my natural, and he hits me with Roach/Hydra and mass corrupter (probably ~12). However, I've reached a high carrier count by now (12) and with blinking stalkers am able to demolish his push, counterattack, and win, when he is on 4 bases
http://www.2shared.com/file/MR2T8voF/Lost_Temple__146_.html
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PvT on LT. No idea what his rank. Merely posted to show how it played out vs a cloaked banshee rush when I didn't have any stalkers. Went to his base with carriers and completely owned it, as his starport could only produce one viking at a time (which 2 carriers with the fast deploy upgrade nearly instantly kill within a second) and raped anything he had. He could have done much more with his cloaked banshees admittedly, but he was going to lose in a base trade anyways simply because of the lack of banshees (only two), and the fact cloak will run out eventually. His defense was relatively weak because he had been counting on tanks as a major part of defense.
I don't know how to make the files uploaded show how other people are uploading them, with the matchup and everything, but I believe these are the diamond matches I've played using the strategy (with the exception of the last game, which is just vs a banshee rush. No idea his rank). I'll be back in a bit to specify a more specific BO please look more at the early game than my lategame because as said I just started Toss within ~1 week. My forcefields are generally awful and my macro using protoss isn't too impressive yet.
The reps include showing getting hit by all-in marines, viking transitions to counter, hydra/roach play, etc.
The [D] is more so discuss than me claiming it is a very viable strategy seeing as I have limited experience in Diamond playing as toss.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/JBenr.jpg)
