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On February 02 2013 09:35 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 08:00 RedDeathLiquid wrote:On February 02 2013 06:00 govie wrote:Well, i changed queen setup, thx for all ur advice here. All queens on 4 all hatcheries on 5. I just click on minimap for the cycles between hatcheries for now. I'll go slow, and try hatcheries hotkey, space, backspace thing later. Im a bit older so i have to progress slower then normal players^^ Even better: I just had my first ever zerg laddermatch against goldplayer and i won  I was really bad haha, @6min. i built 4 gasgeyser, i forgot too fill up 2^^ so i didnt have many roaches at 11 minutes. He attacked me with banshee, but that techchoice means he didnt have much defense against the roaches, so i counterattacked him, and won (although i lost half my drones). Roaches rule I tried all the inject methods, and for me personally hotkey'ing queens if the fastest and most reliable. I use 5 hotkeys for army and one for hatches, so it leaves 4 for the queens. Also notice that it's hard to hit the default far-away group hotkeys (7-0), so you might consider rebinding them. I have them on F G V B, it's much faster this way. Gonna try this. as i dont need to click anything to go to the next hatchery and i free up 1234567890
Yep that's the biggest advantage, you go to the hatch really fast and you have the queen already selected. But unfortunately you can have only 10 control groups (I actually sometimes feel that's not enough :D), so if you rebind 7-0 to F G V B for example, you can't use the 7-0 anymore .
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On February 02 2013 09:51 kuruptt wrote:Hi guys, After 3 weeks of playing between Protoss and Zerg I have finally concluded I am going to full time play Zerg from now on as its so much more fun and a tad bit easier in my league, Gold. It's also a lot more better to learn because of all the macro you have to do to become good. Anyways I got to gold mostly on protoss so I'm kind of stuck here until I can get my zerg skills up. I think I have a good macro then most players in this league right now as zerg but I just die because I either don't micro properly or I build the wrong units. I am using these strategys. If anyone has better please link! ZvT - Scarlett's Standard ZvTWhen should I be harassing? Is there any timings where I should be pushing? When should I be taking a 4th base, Macro hatch? Also what units should I be building against these? I really suck at using banelings, do I just a click or do I have to manually activate them to explode? I usually just build mass lings and banelings but I get rocked really hard. I don't even build roaches against terran, should I be diong so? Sometimes when I get to the ultralisk point I make about 4-6 and I still get rocked by them. I have no idea how to finish a terran player. I am thinking mass muta-lings is the best right now? ZvZ - Idra zvZAgain this matchup I have problems just like in ZvT. I don't know when should I be harassing, when to take a 3rd base, how to use banelings effectively. What units should I be focusing on building? Again I am seeing that ling-muta is very effective? Or roach hydra? I don't harass much as zerg, I know I should be but I don't know when is the best time. ZvP - Stephano zvP roach maxThis is my favorite matchup as I excel in it pretty well =D Very standard macro game and I love games like these. Anyways sorry for the long post but I would really like to improve in sc2!
A lot of these questions depend on the situation. "How to play a matchup" is a really complicated question. My advise is to watch tutorials/VODs and try to learn from that. For VODs just go to the live streams and check out the zergs, see what you like and try to copy that. As for tutorials dApollo series is a really good place to start:
Apollo's updated tutorials
Also you might want to focus mainly on macro, creep spread and such, as HotS is coming out pretty soon and good mechanics will transfer to the next game.
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anyone kind enough to give me 2-3 good all ins per MU?
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On February 02 2013 18:44 NotSoHappy wrote:anyone kind enough to give me 2-3 good all ins per MU?
zvz:
10 pool baneling all in
15 hatch (or 15 pool/16hatch doesn't matter) speed/bane all in
15 hatch (or 15 pool/16hatch doesn't matter) roach/ling/bane all in
ZvT:
Roach/ling/bane all in
1/1 Speed roach
ZvP:
roach/ling all in
3 hatch slow ling all in (so you get 3 bases but keep making slow lings then attack, have to make sure toss doesn't see it though).
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What would be considered the best all in against any matchup? like the 4 gate for protoss which can be used effectively against any race. Is there a similar all in for zerg as well? I am asking because when I was protoss I would use the 4 gate on any player choosing random and I will usually 90% of the time win the game.
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On February 02 2013 22:27 kuruptt wrote:
What would be considered the best all in against any matchup? like the 4 gate for protoss which can be used effectively against any race. Is there a similar all in for zerg as well? I am asking because when I was protoss I would use the 4 gate on any player choosing random and I will usually 90% of the time win the game.
roach/ling all in.
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After having searched around for this, I still can't see a comprehensive guide on the subject. I'm having trouble figuring out what P is doing alot of the time. Say I send my overlord into his base @6:30' and spot a robo for instance, I'm not sure if it's the Immo/Sentry all in or just robo tech into 3rd...
Anybody have a good grasp on this? I've heard some commentators point out that u can look for how many gasses P has on his nat + his probe count, but what specifically should I expect for the various things I spot?
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On February 03 2013 00:35 koOma wrote:
After having searched around for this, I still can't see a comprehensive guide on the subject. I'm having trouble figuring out what P is doing alot of the time. Say I send my overlord into his base @6:30' and spot a robo for instance, I'm not sure if it's the Immo/Sentry all in or just robo tech into 3rd...
Anybody have a good grasp on this? I've heard some commentators point out that u can look for how many gasses P has on his nat + his probe count, but what specifically should I expect for the various things I spot?
Try to catch what the robo is making that would be top priority. Then the gateway count. This branches into
a) Immortal + alot of gates(5+) + no probes beeing made -> immo allin
b) Obsever + alot of gates + no probes beeing made -> prism(if you dont see it directly its safe to assume) - keep his third on check and army split in main/third if he takes third just go attack.
Also this could mean the Blink with prism from AcE
c) Immortal + few gates (max 4) + probes beeing made -> third
d) Nothing from robo beeing made and 4gates -> possibly the "new-style" 4gate prism poke
The gate count include the one in wall.
EDIT: The probes beeing made/not beeing made is spotted on nexus with that white ligthings
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On February 03 2013 01:11 Veriol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 00:35 koOma wrote:
After having searched around for this, I still can't see a comprehensive guide on the subject. I'm having trouble figuring out what P is doing alot of the time. Say I send my overlord into his base @6:30' and spot a robo for instance, I'm not sure if it's the Immo/Sentry all in or just robo tech into 3rd...
Anybody have a good grasp on this? I've heard some commentators point out that u can look for how many gasses P has on his nat + his probe count, but what specifically should I expect for the various things I spot? Try to catch what the robo is making that would be top priority. Then the gateway count. This branches into a) Immortal + alot of gates(5+) + no probes beeing made -> immo allin b) Obsever + alot of gates + no probes beeing made -> prism(if you dont see it directly its safe to assume) - keep his third on check and army split in main/third if he takes third just go attack. Also this could mean the Blink with prism from AcE c) Immortal + few gates (max 4) + probes beeing made -> third d) Nothing from robo beeing made and 4gates -> possibly the "new-style" 4gate prism poke The gate count include the one in wall. EDIT: The probes beeing made/not beeing made is spotted on nexus with that white ligthings
Ok thx. What about gasses on nat? + When does probe production stop when doing the Immo/Sentry all in?
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On February 03 2013 01:47 koOma wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 01:11 Veriol wrote:On February 03 2013 00:35 koOma wrote:
After having searched around for this, I still can't see a comprehensive guide on the subject. I'm having trouble figuring out what P is doing alot of the time. Say I send my overlord into his base @6:30' and spot a robo for instance, I'm not sure if it's the Immo/Sentry all in or just robo tech into 3rd...
Anybody have a good grasp on this? I've heard some commentators point out that u can look for how many gasses P has on his nat + his probe count, but what specifically should I expect for the various things I spot? Try to catch what the robo is making that would be top priority. Then the gateway count. This branches into a) Immortal + alot of gates(5+) + no probes beeing made -> immo allin b) Obsever + alot of gates + no probes beeing made -> prism(if you dont see it directly its safe to assume) - keep his third on check and army split in main/third if he takes third just go attack. Also this could mean the Blink with prism from AcE c) Immortal + few gates (max 4) + probes beeing made -> third d) Nothing from robo beeing made and 4gates -> possibly the "new-style" 4gate prism poke The gate count include the one in wall. EDIT: The probes beeing made/not beeing made is spotted on nexus with that white ligthings Ok thx. What about gasses on nat? + When does probe production stop when doing the Immo/Sentry all in?
If not taken by 6:30 its fishy. When i dont know but generally when you scout with ovie at 6:45 .. He just doesnt make past 42.
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On February 03 2013 00:35 koOma wrote:
After having searched around for this, I still can't see a comprehensive guide on the subject. I'm having trouble figuring out what P is doing alot of the time. Say I send my overlord into his base @6:30' and spot a robo for instance, I'm not sure if it's the Immo/Sentry all in or just robo tech into 3rd...
Anybody have a good grasp on this? I've heard some commentators point out that u can look for how many gasses P has on his nat + his probe count, but what specifically should I expect for the various things I spot?
Dont worry, i'm on the same boat and i'm Mid master... T_T
I feel like even if I scout what the P is doing they can always change a little their build order (say you spot lots of gates and robo, yet they didn't make a single unit from the gate and went for 3rd instaed because he knows I'd expect that allin to come...)
This is really a pain in the ass. What's good is that you can still use your army for poking his third. If not, then go mass drones like a mad man and transfer them to your fourth while adding lots of spines etc etc.
I assume it's pretty safe to say that if the gates are nearly completed, the push may be coming soon. If not, then probably they're taking their third ?
It's just hard, because there's no predefinite build order from P unlike stephano's build which is roughly the same from one zerg to another (expand @ 2:40-3:00, 2nd expand @ 3:50-4:20, 2 gaz @ 6:00, overlord scout @ 6:30-7:00, roach warren @ ~7:00, 4th hatch @8:30 etc etc)
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On February 03 2013 00:35 koOma wrote:
After having searched around for this, I still can't see a comprehensive guide on the subject. I'm having trouble figuring out what P is doing alot of the time. Say I send my overlord into his base @6:30' and spot a robo for instance, I'm not sure if it's the Immo/Sentry all in or just robo tech into 3rd...
Anybody have a good grasp on this? I've heard some commentators point out that u can look for how many gasses P has on his nat + his probe count, but what specifically should I expect for the various things I spot?
If you see a robo, just drone and start making units as if he was immortal all-ining then if you see him moving to take a third, resume droning, take a 4rth and 5th. That way you cant get caught offguard with too few units and you wont get behind in macro. Trying to guess what he's doing with overlord scouting and droning while he didnt put a 3rd nexus is a death wish according to me. Those units you've made, you can still try to deny his third with it or something, or you can stop warp prism harass, etc. I mean, they're not totally useless either. You can scout his army composition with them to see if he adds collossus etc.
On February 03 2013 03:09 obis wrote:
you get larva every 15 seconds, so how do pros spend the larva as soon as possible? do they just spam SD? how do they know when 1 larva pops out? is there a sound played? what is the correct way of spamming sd? so your macro is on point.
My macro improved immensely the day i let go the old hotkeys for a personal version of grid. I think every pro use grid or a slightly modified version of it. With grid, your left hand does not have to move from its standard position, which makes macroing more comfortable, and thus makes your macro better. With grid, you'll have "select larva" as "a ('q' if you've qwerty keyboard)" and 'make a drone" as "a", so what you do is hold "a" all the time. If you have no more larvae selected because they've all turned to eggs, you press your hatcherty hotkey. Next thing you need to do is go to the options and set the "delay before repeating (or something like that)" at something low. So you only need to hold your "a" key half a second to make drones. It seems to be no big deal when explained like that but the difference is huge, believe me. It's common thing now i even make drones when controlling muta (like stacking and sniping drones) because it goes so fast.
So when you're in "droning" mode, you should have always "a" held down while from time to time hitting your hotkey for all hatcheries. It's pretty important to spend your larvae AT ALL TIMES and not only when an inject hits. It makes the difference between ok-ish and good macro. For your second question, yes, you should be making drones when injects hit. That's also why pro have so high apm. Every time you make a drone 5 second later than you should, you lose 5-ish minerals. In the end it stacks up and become huge, believe me.
Hope it helps
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Hey guys. I just played a game on which I did the 8 muta into roach-infestor in ZvZ, I know it's quite a common build but I'm unsure on how to execute it. I just randomly throw down my lair/gases and then end up with too little drones and minerals. I uploaded a game on which I tried it- I wanted to cancel his third with some lings, then when my mutas pop clean up overlord/ chase back roaches, but he just pushed and killed me with roaches due to me not having enough mins to make my own. I'd love if someone could point out on which timings I should throw down my stuff and how my early game zvz looks generally. Master league, by the way, although my lair/gas timings probably looked plat-ish.
http://drop.sc/301613
Also - I just played a game in which I LOST vs muta into roaches. He had a 'ton' of lings which scared me to push with my roaches, and honestly I had missplaced my spines and lost queens due to stupid mistakes. How are you supposed to deal with it? Throw down a quick third, turtle up and just push at max army with hydras? Or what. I'm confused ;( Thanks for any help I get in advance!
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On February 02 2013 23:05 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 22:27 kuruptt wrote:
What would be considered the best all in against any matchup? like the 4 gate for protoss which can be used effectively against any race. Is there a similar all in for zerg as well? I am asking because when I was protoss I would use the 4 gate on any player choosing random and I will usually 90% of the time win the game. roach/ling all in.
Bro, I think the Roach/Ling/Bane "Big Bust" can be used in all MU's. Its just that versus Protoss your execution needs to be extremely precise.. And obviously you can't use it on maps with tiny natural ramps otherwise 1 Sentry will stop it 
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What is the current ZvZ standard BO opening? I see 15H/15P/17G, 14P/15H, 15P/16H. I used to do 15H/15P/15G just to get gas early but I've recently changed to 15P/16H because I heard its about economically similar to 15H but safer to early pools.
Also, what's the exact BO of the 15P/16H? From what I can think out, its like:
15 pool
16 hatch
15 ovie
15 gas?
@pool finishing-> Queen
@Queen finishing-> walk Queen to nat and make 2nd Queen at main
Is that correct or have I completely butchered the build 
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On February 02 2013 19:26 blade55555 wrote:
zvz:
10 pool baneling all in
15 hatch (or 15 pool/16hatch doesn't matter) speed/bane all in
15 hatch (or 15 pool/16hatch doesn't matter) roach/ling/bane all in
ZvT:
Roach/ling/bane all in
1/1 Speed roach
ZvP:
roach/ling all in
3 hatch slow ling all in (so you get 3 bases but keep making slow lings then attack, have to make sure toss doesn't see it though).
Sorry I'm new to allinning as zerg and I've been using zerg since 1.00.
Do zergs allin blindly? as in predetermined before the game starts? or do zergs allin after scouting something? I'm looking for the latter to use after spotting super greedy or retarded play.
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Please,can someone help me,im high masters and i can't beat 1 base pushes,if i make alot of spines i fall back in eco alot,and im not sure if i should take drones off gas
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On February 03 2013 14:01 Reki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 19:26 blade55555 wrote:
zvz:
10 pool baneling all in
15 hatch (or 15 pool/16hatch doesn't matter) speed/bane all in
15 hatch (or 15 pool/16hatch doesn't matter) roach/ling/bane all in
ZvT:
Roach/ling/bane all in
1/1 Speed roach
ZvP:
roach/ling all in
3 hatch slow ling all in (so you get 3 bases but keep making slow lings then attack, have to make sure toss doesn't see it though). Sorry I'm new to allinning as zerg and I've been using zerg since 1.00. Do zergs allin blindly? as in predetermined before the game starts? or do zergs allin after scouting something? I'm looking for the latter to use after spotting super greedy or retarded play.
The thing is I drone scout 99% every MU, so maybe some information will depend on that (ZvZ particularly):
ZvZ:
10pool: blind ofc
15Hatch ling/bane: this one is tricky.(15H is blind (I drone scout so I can cancel it in case of <10 pool, but will be hard to defend))
If you scout pool hatch late gaz(The win is yours, yay!), the best you can do is a mass ling allin eventually add the bling nest, cuz his ling speed and bling nest will be delayed, while you will have a short massive production advantage due to 15H vs 15P. You should have a very high winning rate for that BO MU.
Pool hatch 17-19 gas. No reason to allin. You can try to transition into the ling bling midgame to keep on the pressure and get a chance to take the advantage/win, but one should not expect to get BO freewins in that situation (read: allin not as strong as vs previous BO)
No gas version (Pool Hatch or Hatch Pool). I would not try to allin. No gas openers are very powerful at defending ling bling aggression. But if you spend a sufficient amount of banes, you can try to bust him anyway. I would recommend the roach ling bling allin instead.
Pool and gas before hatch. Looks like someone doesnt want you to get to two bases. Defend
Mirror: weird. Try to keep on the pressure while making less units than him.
15 Hatch roach ling bling: kinda OK against everything. Mostly cause it doesnt rely on very specific timings anymore, so it can be good against many things. Best you can wish is a two base mutas. But as a side note, the fact that it doesnt rely on a particular edge means that it will prolly be weaker than the previous allins. Add the fact that roaches are extremely slow, and you got an allin that you better execute well, cause there won't be an easy way out.
ZvT:
All these allins are really good if you manage to scout a greedy third/greedy mech transition/late bio transition(guy made too many hellions expecting to do some damage with them)/all of this at the same time(greedy terrans yo'). Not-so-greedy hellion/banshee/safety marauders production is a no-no, even if you see the third CC. But most terrans tend to skip one of another component of this defense to get faster ups/mech transi/reactored marines. Don't underestimate the power of four units in a bunker, a banshee in the sky, and scvs all around.
ZvP:
Mostly blind. Depends on the map and the opponent if you know him
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On February 03 2013 18:27 SnowZi wrote:
Please,can someone help me,im high masters and i can't beat 1 base pushes,if i make alot of spines i fall back in eco alot,and im not sure if i should take drones off gas
What match up?
I am going to assume not zvz. You should pull drones off of gas (unless you are making roaches) and just use spine/speedling to hold. Pretty much you have to remember that he doesn't have an expansion. This puts you way ahead if you hold his push as you can then start pumping out a ton of drones and not worry about a second follow up for awhile by which you should be saturated for the most part and teching.
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EPT
