EPTAnyway, I'm thinking that fast drop into 3 base infestor into some ultra/bane play will be the fun way to play ZvP for a while. Midgame revolves around using drops to buy time for ultras, then you steamroll through with ultra/bane/infestor. I'm kind of excited to use these styles more; it will get me lots of experience for HotS, where ultras will be prevalent.
The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 448
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
Anyway, I'm thinking that fast drop into 3 base infestor into some ultra/bane play will be the fun way to play ZvP for a while. Midgame revolves around using drops to buy time for ultras, then you steamroll through with ultra/bane/infestor. I'm kind of excited to use these styles more; it will get me lots of experience for HotS, where ultras will be prevalent. | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On December 14 2012 01:48 Insoleet wrote: If i use fungle instead of IT, i loose my infestors because of colossi lasers... Same in ZvT, loosing my infests to tanks shots. :/ It depends on your infestor numbers and energy. GENERALLY, you want a good amount of infested terrans as buffer (~20) while chain fungaling. Make sure to pre-spread your infestors - that way, they aren't completely clumped up for collosus beams. Also try not to move command all of your infestors into a fight - select 2-3 and move in clumps at a time, this serves 2 purposes: No full energy infestors will die uselessly, and MOST high templar will be dead by the time you have several infestors left. But yes, IT spam not all of your energy, but some. You always want to have ~8+ fungals available for stalkers. I think other people answered your vs mech question well | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On December 14 2012 02:51 sCCrooked wrote: lol I wouldn't go so far as to say to quit. Its incredibly discouraging at times though because its basically back to how we've always been. People forget that Zerg was considered the weakest race for the longest time until the last few patches. Then everyone started getting mad because Zergs were able to actually win consistently. Now with this patch, its back to us needing to be far ahead of our opponents at all times. It means you literally ALWAYS have to outplay and outsmart your opponent. The strain of what you have to set up and macro up and tech up to at the same time will also probably be far greater than the strain on an lategame P. Also keep in mind that really you should just keep trying to improve. Honestly, just keep working on improving your engagements. Keep in mind that ZvP Late game is advantaged to protoss when played PERFECTLY, you can still 100% have better micro than the protoss and come out far on top | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On December 15 2012 17:48 crbox wrote: There are a lot of questions there that I feel maybe someone more competent @ teaching then me can answer but for now I'll give you my little piece of advice : you shouldn't worry about your rank at all, just about your skills. If you get better you'll get out of bronze league really fast. Also, I don't know if people can concur (maybe I'm totally wrong with this one but hear me out) don't you just need to work on like mechanics if you are bronze-diamond? Because most timings / strategies don't really apply there? I mean general strategy might be okay (like don't mass hydras vs colossus and basic things like that) but about like openers and stuff, I think you might just want to try and copy what pros do but don't put too much thought into it as of just right now (at least I think maybe some more experienced coaches can correct me on this one.) Ok so dealing with each part of your Question: -To advance leagues from bronze --> diamond, the very first thing that I would recommend is establishing a build order. Look up some basic build orders around teamliquid and try those out -- you won't get them perfectly, but it will GREATLY increase your efficiency. Also keep in mind that you should generally always have under 1,000 minerals - if you find yourself stacking minerals, throw down a hatchery (expansion or macro hatch). Be careful about going for roaches ZvZ versus all ins - if you can get them out in time to block your ramp, GREAT. If not, then lings are very efficient versus roaches. I'll leave you with this - when watching player's streams, look at the top right corner of the screen. Write down their supplies when they build things, and pay attention to what units they build versus what they see from their opponents | ||
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crbox
Canada1180 Posts
On December 24 2012 15:02 Glon wrote: Also keep in mind that really you should just keep trying to improve. Honestly, just keep working on improving your engagements. Keep in mind that ZvP Late game is advantaged to protoss when played PERFECTLY, you can still 100% have better micro than the protoss and come out far on top Huh? If played perfectly zerg could win almost every engagement without losing a single unit. Few broodlords foward to keep HT from feedbacking high nrg infestor Infestor behind to stop stalkers from blinking in the mass of broodlords Spines and spores in mass while pushing creep toward the protoss base corruptor aggressively engaging the mothership, forcing waste of vortex. I mean tbh I don't wanna engage PvZ balance debate but Zerg played perfectly would be pretty unbeatable. Fortunately it is impossible to achieve and that is why human balance is so important to take into consideration. | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On December 16 2012 07:09 asari wrote: How many spores do I need each base vs cloaked banshees and where do I place them? Usually I put one next to my hatchery but one banshee can just avoid it for ever until cloak runs out. Generally, you want 4. 1 for each base (in the mineral line) and another between your natural and your third. Keep in mind that this spore is very important as it helps you transfer units across the 2 bases that are farthest away from eachother. Add 2 more queens if you see continued banshee production (I nearly always get an overseer to scout the terran's base when my lair finishes, not only to spot stuff like this but also to see if my opponent is going mech or bio, ect) | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On December 17 2012 16:16 crbox wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/7_Roach_Rush_(vs._Terran) is really outdated srsly. If your opponent doesn't scout at all on a close 2 player map it could definitely work against really greedy play but that would be silly lol. EDIT: I suggest just 2 base aggression in general, 2 base fast lair muta is actually giving me quite a bit of success, there's also 2 base roach bane (there has to be a guide on TL search Roach Baneling or something) Honestly, I would suggest going for 2 base mutalisk play if you're looking to get aggressive. Follow the basic opener, but grab lair at 100 gas (after your speed) and 3 gasses when you have adequate drone saturation. Get mutalisks out, then either go for a ling/bane muta all in or grab 2 evolution chambers and a third, harassing your opponent's mineral line like crazy | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On December 19 2012 05:41 crbox wrote: There's a link to the Sentry immo all in Guide in the OP but it's hard to see it's in the spoiler'd part in the bottom thanks to Glon. I'm working on the OP as we speak  I'm going to unspoiler your stuff until I post the complete OP, should make things more noticable | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On December 19 2012 06:45 asari wrote: is 4-5 infestors too little btw? that might be my problem if thats the case. Stick with 8-10 going into the later stages of the game with your main army. If you plan on using infestors to harass (they are great to harass outside bases, put into overlord drops, ect) then add extra infestors. The reason for getting 8-10 infestors is that it gives you just enough energy to put down a thin wall of infested terrans (helps to take fire away from infestors/BL) but also gives you enough energy to chain fungal. Keep in mind that the extra supply should be put into corrupters versus terran (you only want ~8 brood lords) and into more brood lords versus the standard ground protoss composition. | ||
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Primate
17 Posts
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Kraelog
Belgium194 Posts
On December 24 2012 22:09 Primate wrote: How do you hold off a 10 pool 1 base speedling all in on a 4 player map in ZvZ? More specifically, how do you scout it in time if you are at cross spawn? In the case that you open 15h/15p (since pool first is an auto-win against 10pool). Scout with your 10th drone and your first OL. Normally you should be able to see the lings just hatch when you arrive at the enemy base. If he's cross spawn on a reaaally big map your scouting will be later but the travel distance his lings have cross is larger aswell, so that should cancel each other out. Start making zerglins (6-8) and avoid engaging with your drones until your first 4 zerglings hatch. If he doesn't expand (which your drone/OL should notice). Make another Queen, a Spine (even a second one if he's REALLY doesn't expand) & keep making lings untill he expands. Also make a baneling nest when you can afford the gas. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
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Kraelog
Belgium194 Posts
Btw, how do you 'feel' 10pools? :p | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
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Kraelog
Belgium194 Posts
And regarding 15h vs 10P Slings I quote him: It's pretty easy to beat this. Now that you know it's a 10 pool speedling, you'll want to make a spine in both your main and nat (if he sends his initial lings immediately over, this is important, as well as when the speedling mass comes). Pool lings at your ramp, where him having speed won't mean anything, and hold position with your queens there, and eventually bring the spine from your nat, to your natural, when you see you can clearly hold the ramp. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
However, the 10 pool+ drone pull: 'For a long time, considered the way to beat Hatch First with a BO win, and recently, seen as beatable. Well, what recent pros have been doing, like Jaedong vs Soulkey, would actually not work if the 10 pooler puts a spine in the natural of the opponent asap, and then the 2nd spine in the main. Build Order + Show Spoiler + You lose' Edit My bad, you're right. I didn't see the question that was asked was on how to deal with a speedling 10 pool all in. I thought he was just asking about 10 pools in general. | ||
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Kraelog
Belgium194 Posts
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On December 25 2012 02:23 Kraelog wrote: Yeah I lose, impressive self-own Actually 'you lose' was part of Belial's post :D | ||
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BlueKatz
68 Posts
Most of the time I can hold it but I think I'm pretty behind and I mess up my third and upgrade and with bad army mix. (for short I don't have time to play a lot so my game sense suck and I'm very confused when things go wrong) So few questions: If I see 1 base terran should I go double queen? Should I throw down Baneling Net? If I see he build another OC in base with overlord sac while still build up army to go pressure should I take the 3rd? After holding it should I get 4th hatch immediately or tech up? Should I jump to Hive as fast as possible or take my chance with Lair play? When can I skip Inject to lay creep with my first 2 queens? I think earlier creep spread can help vs early marines but I'm not sure if that delay my production or not. Should I get upgrade if I see pressure? I normally get +1 armor and get 1/2 right when lair finish When do I throw down Spine? Is it too late throwing down when see him moving out? Should I throw down spine after holding the pressure barely? Also if I have leftover units should I throw them into enemy bases? If I hold the pressure barely how do I know if he continue it or not and make units or not. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On December 25 2012 03:22 BlueKatz wrote: Hi, I'm currently struggling in in ZvT (I play ZvZ and ZvP fairly well compare to my ZvT). I can beat fast expand fairly easily (maybe most of my win are from beating 1 Rax/Double Hellion expand) but I don't know what to do vs Terrans who pressure along with expanding (like mass marines hellions). I'm low plat and I think my ZvT win rate is like 25% Most of the time I can hold it but I think I'm pretty behind and I mess up my third and upgrade and with bad army mix. (for short I don't have time to play a lot so my game sense suck and I'm very confused when things go wrong) So few questions: If I see 1 base terran should I go double queen? Should I throw down Baneling Net? If I see he build another OC in base with overlord sac while still build up army to go pressure should I take the 3rd? After holding it should I get 4th hatch immediately or tech up? Should I jump to Hive as fast as possible or take my chance with Lair play? When can I skip Inject to lay creep with my first 2 queens? I think earlier creep spread can help vs early marines but I'm not sure if that delay my production or not. Should I get upgrade if I see pressure? I normally get +1 armor and get 1/2 right when lair finish When do I throw down Spine? Is it too late throwing down when see him moving out? Should I throw down spine after holding the pressure barely? Also if I have leftover units should I throw them into enemy bases? If I hold the pressure barely how do I know if he continue it or not and make units or not. First of all; happy birthday  To me, the 4 queen build is very, very solid and can easily hold all early aggression builds + is great for macro/creep spread. Basically you get 15H/16P, then get 2 queens asap, and 2 queens after the first 2 queens pop. Inject with both first queens, then use them to spread creep. drone really hard, and get 4 gas at 6:00. (Some people like to get gas later then 6:00 but to me, it doesn't feel comfortable). Get speed, 1/1, then lair with your first 450 gas. Morph an overseer and put them with your 2 creep-queens to fend off annoying cloaked banshees. I like to throw down my baneling nest after spending my first 450 gas on the things I just said. After that, I spend gas on infestation pit, although you could go mutas if you wanted to. Both options are available.It is very important to wall off vs hellions. Use your two evos + a spine to wall off, and some lings/queens should make sure nothing slips through. ( I like to get both evos and a spine at the same time.) Something very important; if you hold his push, attack, or at least pressure. This forces him to make units, instead of workers/economy. (This is especially for ZvZ, but same goes for ZvT, in way.) You should get your 4th when he has his third up. (By that, I mean landed + mining with SCVs). For reference, I'm top diamond, probably getting masters soon. I hope this helped you a little bit! | ||
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Glon and Crooked agreed and stuff...basically you have to enter lategame with a lead to win, because lategame Z is not a free win, unlike what the whiners would have you believe. Fungals never land on stalkers (especially after nerf), and archon/colo make the broodlords deal 0 damage while storm/stalker will tear your broodlords to shreds.
rank 5 now probably by the time i get done work ill be in rank 9. oh yea and no replays just because my computer hates me. doesnt let anyone view my replays i try to send and i cant watch them either. just some dumb error pops up
