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On December 25 2012 03:22 BlueKatz wrote:
Hi, I'm currently struggling in in ZvT (I play ZvZ and ZvP fairly well compare to my ZvT). I can beat fast expand fairly easily (maybe most of my win are from beating 1 Rax/Double Hellion expand) but I don't know what to do vs Terrans who pressure along with expanding (like mass marines hellions). I'm low plat and I think my ZvT win rate is like 25%
Most of the time I can hold it but I think I'm pretty behind and I mess up my third and upgrade and with bad army mix. (for short I don't have time to play a lot so my game sense suck and I'm very confused when things go wrong)
So few questions:
If I see 1 base terran should I go double queen? Should I throw down Baneling Net?
If I see he build another OC in base with overlord sac while still build up army to go pressure should I take the 3rd?
After holding it should I get 4th hatch immediately or tech up? Should I jump to Hive as fast as possible or take my chance with Lair play?
When can I skip Inject to lay creep with my first 2 queens? I think earlier creep spread can help vs early marines but I'm not sure if that delay my production or not.
Should I get upgrade if I see pressure? I normally get +1 armor and get 1/2 right when lair finish
When do I throw down Spine? Is it too late throwing down when see him moving out? Should I throw down spine after holding the pressure barely?
Also if I have leftover units should I throw them into enemy bases? If I hold the pressure barely how do I know if he continue it or not and make units or not.
The basic problem i feel from your post is a lack of confidence in your build order. Could you perhaps provide some replays for us to examine?
Now the standard in ZvT is 15h/17P. You start 2 Queens immediatly and just focus on maxing drones and not getting supply blocked. When the first two Queens are almost ready you start 2 more Queens for creep spread.
After this scouting is important. If your slow lings/OL see 2 Fact IMMMEDIATLY start 2 more Queens and gogoo mass Roach. If not stay on 4-5 Queens and just adapt.
As a general rule for ZvT I woud recommmend Belial's Guide of any of the many guides availible. Personally I go extremely upgrade heavy, +1/+1 before speed but that's just me.
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Thanks you both for your help. I unfortunately don't have replays (staying with my family over here and only has a small laptop, also I do play some random on Hots atm)
Thanks for the creep spread after 2 Inject confirmation, I knew something is wrong when I just keep injecting with that 2 queens
Something very important; if you hold his push, attack, or at least pressure. This forces him to make units, instead of workers/economy. (This is especially for ZvZ, but same goes for ZvT, in way.)
Great advice, I normally scare and just pull all of my force back.
You should get your 4th when he has his third up. (By that, I mean landed + mining with SCVs).
I normally just take a blind 4th when i filled my 3 bases and lose many chance to attack. I better keep this in mind
After this scouting is important. If your slow lings/OL see 2 Fact IMMMEDIATLY start 2 more Queens and gogoo mass Roach. If not stay on 4-5 Queens and just adapt. Great advice! I normally don't know when to take Roach.
Yep I have poor confidence against terran  but with some quick tips I think I should be able to stabilize my ZvT build now
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On December 25 2012 09:55 BlueKatz wrote:Thanks you both for your help. I unfortunately don't have replays (staying with my family over here and only has a small laptop, also I do play some random on Hots atm) Thanks for the creep spread after 2 Inject confirmation, I knew something is wrong when I just keep injecting with that 2 queens Show nested quote +Something very important; if you hold his push, attack, or at least pressure. This forces him to make units, instead of workers/economy. (This is especially for ZvZ, but same goes for ZvT, in way.) Great advice, I normally scare and just pull all of my force back. Show nested quote +You should get your 4th when he has his third up. (By that, I mean landed + mining with SCVs). I normally just take a blind 4th when i filled my 3 bases and lose many chance to attack. I better keep this in mind Show nested quote +After this scouting is important. If your slow lings/OL see 2 Fact IMMMEDIATLY start 2 more Queens and gogoo mass Roach. If not stay on 4-5 Queens and just adapt. Great advice! I normally don't know when to take Roach. Yep I have poor confidence against terran but with some quick tips I think I should be able to stabilize my ZvT build now
Check out the OP tonight. At the very least, BASIC build orders for all matchups will be posted. I hope to get general build orders up tonight, then add F Q and A tomorrow.
I would be careful - you want as many injects as possible. If you're going to stay w/ 2 queens, you may choose to throw down 1 (one) creep tumor with your natural queen instead of an inject. However, I would advocate for at the very least getting 3 queens in the ZvT matchup, purely for the reason of creep spread.
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Hey Guys,
Im looking to get back into playin, but I wana switch to zerg. im like less than bronze.
I played Terran in the past, and I just feel I cant play them well enough.
Can you please suggest a zvx build order for to learn and use as a learning build order.
Thanks.
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On December 26 2012 06:46 Himself wrote:
Hey Guys,
Im looking to get back into playin, but I wana switch to zerg. im like less than bronze.
I played Terran in the past, and I just feel I cant play them well enough.
Can you please suggest a zvx build order for to learn and use as a learning build order.
Thanks.
Ok so check out the OP - it will have the other 2 matchups updated tonight.
However, versus terran, I would suggest going for:
-15 hatchery
-16 spawning pool
-17 gas
-Stick on 2 bases, tech up to mutalisks. Use the mutalsisks to harass your opponent while you expand again. Get banelings and evolution chambers to upgrade your lings.
Doing this will allow you to practice multitasking -- macroing at home while harassing with mutalisks. Just be careful for 2 baracks play - Scout!
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On December 26 2012 07:46 Glon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 06:46 Himself wrote:
Hey Guys,
Im looking to get back into playin, but I wana switch to zerg. im like less than bronze.
I played Terran in the past, and I just feel I cant play them well enough.
Can you please suggest a zvx build order for to learn and use as a learning build order.
Thanks.
Ok so check out the OP - it will have the other 2 matchups updated tonight. However, versus terran, I would suggest going for: -15 hatchery -16 spawning pool -17 gas -Stick on 2 bases, tech up to mutalisks. Use the mutalsisks to harass your opponent while you expand again. Get banelings and evolution chambers to upgrade your lings. Doing this will allow you to practice multitasking -- macroing at home while harassing with mutalisks. Just be careful for 2 baracks play - Scout!
if theres 2 barracks I do which?
assume bunker at natural, get spine crawler, queens and lings?
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Yo guys, can anybody tell me why blizzard maps don't have supply depots under the choke?
I mean, as a zerg player i think those depots are essential to avoid unfair cheeses like 3pylon or 3bunker block.
It's nearly impossible to deny those cheeses without being massively behind.
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On December 26 2012 08:16 Himself wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 07:46 Glon wrote:On December 26 2012 06:46 Himself wrote:
Hey Guys,
Im looking to get back into playin, but I wana switch to zerg. im like less than bronze.
I played Terran in the past, and I just feel I cant play them well enough.
Can you please suggest a zvx build order for to learn and use as a learning build order.
Thanks.
Ok so check out the OP - it will have the other 2 matchups updated tonight. However, versus terran, I would suggest going for: -15 hatchery -16 spawning pool -17 gas -Stick on 2 bases, tech up to mutalisks. Use the mutalsisks to harass your opponent while you expand again. Get banelings and evolution chambers to upgrade your lings. Doing this will allow you to practice multitasking -- macroing at home while harassing with mutalisks. Just be careful for 2 baracks play - Scout! if theres 2 barracks I do which? assume bunker at natural, get spine crawler, queens and lings?
So if it's two baracks, pull drones to stop the bunker (kill the SCV/focus bunker) and get up a spine/lings. You've got the main picture -- keep working on that principle until you get used to it before focussing on how many drones you should pull, ect
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On December 26 2012 09:37 OneObsession wrote:
Yo guys, can anybody tell me why blizzard maps don't have supply depots under the choke?
I mean, as a zerg player i think those depots are essential to avoid unfair cheeses like 3pylon or 3bunker block.
It's nearly impossible to deny those cheeses without being massively behind.
Two answers:
Short = They're stupid.
Long = They're completely stupid.
It's taken them 2 years to finally have cross position only come into question. HOTS DOES have depots at the bottom of ramps though - so don't fear
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Thanks for doing this, Glon.
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On December 26 2012 07:46 Glon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 06:46 Himself wrote:
Hey Guys,
Im looking to get back into playin, but I wana switch to zerg. im like less than bronze.
I played Terran in the past, and I just feel I cant play them well enough.
Can you please suggest a zvx build order for to learn and use as a learning build order.
Thanks.
Ok so check out the OP - it will have the other 2 matchups updated tonight. However, versus terran, I would suggest going for: -15 hatchery -16 spawning pool -17 gas -Stick on 2 bases, tech up to mutalisks. Use the mutalsisks to harass your opponent while you expand again. Get banelings and evolution chambers to upgrade your lings. Doing this will allow you to practice multitasking -- macroing at home while harassing with mutalisks. Just be careful for 2 baracks play - Scout!
I think there was a mistake made there,
what I meant was can you give me a build that is good for a bronze level player to start out with that is good in all match ups.
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On December 26 2012 12:07 Himself wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 07:46 Glon wrote:On December 26 2012 06:46 Himself wrote:
Hey Guys,
Im looking to get back into playin, but I wana switch to zerg. im like less than bronze.
I played Terran in the past, and I just feel I cant play them well enough.
Can you please suggest a zvx build order for to learn and use as a learning build order.
Thanks.
Ok so check out the OP - it will have the other 2 matchups updated tonight. However, versus terran, I would suggest going for: -15 hatchery -16 spawning pool -17 gas -Stick on 2 bases, tech up to mutalisks. Use the mutalsisks to harass your opponent while you expand again. Get banelings and evolution chambers to upgrade your lings. Doing this will allow you to practice multitasking -- macroing at home while harassing with mutalisks. Just be careful for 2 baracks play - Scout! I think there was a mistake made there, what I meant was can you give me a build that is good for a bronze level player to start out with that is good in all match ups.
Ohhh ok. So here's what I would suggest:
Look @ the 14 pool opening that I posted for ZvZ. That can be a pretty much universal opening - work with that in all of your MUs if you're looking for a one-build-fix-all type of deal
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ZvZ/ZvP are out. ZvT coming tonight or tomorrow - time permitting
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On December 27 2012 05:08 Glon wrote:
ZvZ/ZvP are out. ZvT coming tonight or tomorrow - time permitting
Very cool =) Super useful for the current meta and newer players. Thanks!
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wow very nice guide Glon,
Good write up and research behind it too with the VODs :D
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On December 27 2012 06:31 crbox wrote:
wow very nice guide Glon,
Good write up and research behind it too with the VODs :D
I only have 1 vod 
^ Getting 1 for each 'situation' tonight
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if im not going to use infestors what are the next best things to use? im in bronze and generally when i make infestors i dont feel that great with them. i own marines with them but other then that all late game units blow up my infested terrans with mad aoe and thats not even everything. they feel so squishy too. die a lot when going in for the fungals
also a side question im rank 1 bronze how many wins should i expect before a promoation..? like 5+ or 15+ or what just want a general idea
hopefully someone can answer this questions
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On December 27 2012 15:30 BlessedHammers wrote:
if im not going to use infestors what are the next best things to use? im in bronze and generally when i make infestors i dont feel that great with them. i own marines with them but other then that all late game units blow up my infested terrans with mad aoe and thats not even everything. they feel so squishy too. die a lot when going in for the fungals
also a side question im rank 1 bronze how many wins should i expect before a promoation..? like 5+ or 15+ or what just want a general idea
hopefully someone can answer this questions
I typically don't go infestors in my matchups; if you want a high-DPS unit like the infestor I would probably recommend banelings. Mass roach can work at your level too in pretty much all matchups. There're ways around using infestors (at least until lategame), and I really wouldn't worry about them until plat or so.
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How would you guys go about defending a hellion banshee opener? I open 15h 16p into gasless 4 queens followed by all gas taken around 44 supply and i'm having a hard time defending against said opening. Even if i do defend against it, I would've lost a base and would be far behind to recover.
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On December 27 2012 18:58 Invictusss wrote:How would you guys go about defending a hellion banshee opener? I open 15h 16p into gasless 4 queens followed by all gas taken around 44 supply and i'm having a hard time defending against said opening. Even if i do defend against it, I would've lost a base and would be far behind to recover.
I generally do the same, and take 4 gas at 6:00. (Not sure at howmuch supply that is). Then place 2 evo's + a spine at the entrance of the natural to wall off. Get speed-lair-1/1 with your next 450 gas. (I used to take 1/1 before lair, but I feel cloak banshees can be so very annoying then, picking off anything that's not covered by spores. Get an overseer as soon as your lair pops).
You really shouldn't be having problems with this- pump some lings when you have the minerals for it (after you placed your third, but before droning it up. You should be saturated on 2 bases now)
I generally have my queens on 5, but I have the 2 creep spreading queens on hotkey 2, together with an overseer. (Thus-not in the '5' group). This allows you to deal with banshees better IMO, because your injecting queens don't derp around everywhere if you only use '2' to fight off banshees.
Hope this helps a bit
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EPT
