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On December 21 2012 10:03 b0ub0u wrote:Hey guys. Need big help ZvP. Platinum level on NA. I was NEVER able to win a single game against P when it goes past mid game. Even mid game it`s rare. My ZvP is around 10% right now. It does not matter what they do. Immo/sentry all in or just 3 bases macro play. I still loose. This is now driving me crazy. Would appreciate if someone would take some time with me to help my ZvP. I know you will ask for replay. I can upload the latest one I played today. I think I never got that far into a ZvP before but I still lost no problem lol.I never make it to the BL normally I die before that. Anyone would be willing to coach me? I know my macro is not the best but I think at my level it is not too bad. I don`t have any issue vs T or Z. http://drop.sc/286283
I watched the game from that game a small change i would suggest is no drone transfer it is important with zerg that you build bases then drone do not over drone a base excluding a few situations. i would suggest taking gases quicker besides that just practice.
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On December 21 2012 10:03 b0ub0u wrote:Hey guys. Need big help ZvP. Platinum level on NA. I was NEVER able to win a single game against P when it goes past mid game. Even mid game it`s rare. My ZvP is around 10% right now. It does not matter what they do. Immo/sentry all in or just 3 bases macro play. I still loose. This is now driving me crazy. Would appreciate if someone would take some time with me to help my ZvP. I know you will ask for replay. I can upload the latest one I played today. I think I never got that far into a ZvP before but I still lost no problem lol.I never make it to the BL normally I die before that. Anyone would be willing to coach me? I know my macro is not the best but I think at my level it is not too bad. I don`t have any issue vs T or Z. http://drop.sc/286283
Reviewed your replay, here's what I saw:
1. Your opener is decent, with a couple of missteps: once you take your 2 gasses at your main, re-rally drones to main (there was a slight delay, not a big issue). The much larger issue is that once the 3rd completes, rally your natural hatch to your 3rd. Your nat is oversaturated in this game. Not large mistakes but they do hurt your macro.
2. You want to sac an OL (or even 2) much earlier (around 6:30) to see what is going on. After you secure your nat and you see he won't cannon you, send your OL there to outside his main and then basically straight into his main after that to sac it at the right time.
3. Overall, just more drones. Once you saw he had taken a 3rd, you want to get up to 70 drones at least ASAP, even 80-85 is fine.
4. You need earlier infestors, especially to hold a push like the one he uses to kill your 4th. Take 5th and 6th gas as soon as you confirm a 3rd.
5. When you attack with BL, you completely lose track of your macro. This really hurt you; the game was in your favor, but your remaking of your army took a lot longer than it should have because you weren't macro'ing behind your push. Also you should be remax'ing on BL/festor/ling, not roach. This was a huge mistake; you also want to take your 7th and 8th gas at least (preferably be on 10gas by this point). This was just a lack of multitasking more than anything else, but may have cost you the game.
6. Upgrades; you want to be 3/3 for sure on melee/carapace by the time the game ended.
Basically more drones, more infestors, macro behind your pushes. Your opponent played pretty well, especially in the midgame. This didn't really feel like a plat-level game.
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On December 21 2012 04:54 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 06:45 asari wrote:
is 4-5 infestors too little btw? that might be my problem if thats the case. This is an adorable question. It's like a newbie king asking if 4-5 women in his harem is enough.
Sorry for being bad at this game then, hope you don't take it too hard.
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On December 22 2012 02:00 asari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 04:54 kcdc wrote:On December 19 2012 06:45 asari wrote:
is 4-5 infestors too little btw? that might be my problem if thats the case. This is an adorable question. It's like a newbie king asking if 4-5 women in his harem is enough. Sorry for being bad at this game then, hope you don't take it too hard.
It sounds like maybe you have too few ground units in general? It's hard to keep all enemy ground troops away with infestors only. You shouldn't rely too much on bl/infestor alone but make sure that you hit your injects and keep swarming lings or roaches to the battle. Also, I don't know what level you're at, but with good economy, you can try ultras as well. They are faster and easier to control.
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On December 22 2012 03:47 FrogOfWar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 02:00 asari wrote:On December 21 2012 04:54 kcdc wrote:On December 19 2012 06:45 asari wrote:
is 4-5 infestors too little btw? that might be my problem if thats the case. This is an adorable question. It's like a newbie king asking if 4-5 women in his harem is enough. Sorry for being bad at this game then, hope you don't take it too hard. It sounds like maybe you have too few ground units in general? It's hard to keep all enemy ground troops away with infestors only. You shouldn't rely too much on bl/infestor alone but make sure that you hit your injects and keep swarming lings or roaches to the battle. Also, I don't know what level you're at, but with good economy, you can try ultras as well. They are faster and easier to control.
Thing is my multitasking is horrendous, and my injects as well. My lings/and or roaches tend to melt away pretty quickly, due to bad engagements probably. I'm plat and I usually switch to ultras once I've forced vikings.
I know I'm bad at the game and that's why I came here instead of bnet forums, to avoid useless answers that just state the obvious (in this case me being bad), that's why I spew out to that guy.
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On December 22 2012 04:50 asari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 03:47 FrogOfWar wrote:On December 22 2012 02:00 asari wrote:On December 21 2012 04:54 kcdc wrote:On December 19 2012 06:45 asari wrote:
is 4-5 infestors too little btw? that might be my problem if thats the case. This is an adorable question. It's like a newbie king asking if 4-5 women in his harem is enough. Sorry for being bad at this game then, hope you don't take it too hard. It sounds like maybe you have too few ground units in general? It's hard to keep all enemy ground troops away with infestors only. You shouldn't rely too much on bl/infestor alone but make sure that you hit your injects and keep swarming lings or roaches to the battle. Also, I don't know what level you're at, but with good economy, you can try ultras as well. They are faster and easier to control. Thing is my multitasking is horrendous, and my injects as well. My lings/and or roaches tend to melt away pretty quickly, due to bad engagements probably. I'm plat and I usually switch to ultras once I've forced vikings. I know I'm bad at the game and that's why I came here instead of bnet forums, to avoid useless answers that just state the obvious (in this case me being bad), that's why I spew out to that guy.
If your army management is bad and you don't have much patience (I really don't have the patience for this army comp), I wouldn't advise going BL/infestor. If you do, try to get like 20 BL's and 20 infestors; 4-5 is way, way too small a number, which was kcdc's point =P
There are a lot of viable unit comps at your level; in ZvT a lot of pros go ling/bane/ultra/festor nowadays, which is pretty strong and mobile, with a later BL switch if necessary.
Also the b.net forums in the race-specific discussion sections are not bad at all, though players are in general of lower level (no GM's like you'll find here). The general forums are a fucking mess though.
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On December 22 2012 02:00 asari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 04:54 kcdc wrote:On December 19 2012 06:45 asari wrote:
is 4-5 infestors too little btw? that might be my problem if thats the case. This is an adorable question. It's like a newbie king asking if 4-5 women in his harem is enough. Sorry for being bad at this game then, hope you don't take it too hard.
Please try to understand the context behind this comment. Infestors have been widely recognized as the most powerful unit in the game for quite some time, with both fungal and infested terran being ridiculously good spells, and neural parasite being awesome in very specific situations. Fungal punishes even minor positioning mistakes, and punishes them something awful. Infestors are the backbone to any zerg army, whether you choose BL or ultra for hive tech, or even whether you're in midgame with roach ling. Hell, you used to be able to win ZvZ by just building infestors ad infinitum, as showcased by Dark.
So kcdc is just humorously pointing out how silly it sounds to higher level players to hear someone asking if you should get more infestors, because you ALWAYS want more infestor. They are just so powerful that you want as many as possible.
tl;dr don't take it personally, he's making a joke. and it's pretty funny.
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could someone send a link to a replay or vod when the 2 base infestor opening (versus protoss) is getting used. it seems like that tyle suits me well, thanks beforehand 
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kcdc's comment got me thinking.
How many infestors should I make in the lategame? I always stop at 8-12, but in games where everyone whines about it being imba there's upwards of 50 lol. Is it actually a good idea to have ~10 broodlords and 40 infestors? Or would 50 broodlords be better? These numbers are exaggeration of course, but the general question:
Should I have >10 broods and 8-12 infestors, or
Should I have ~10 broods and >20 infestors?
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United States8477 Posts
On December 21 2012 04:54 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 06:45 asari wrote:
is 4-5 infestors too little btw? that might be my problem if thats the case. This is an adorable question. It's like a newbie king asking if 4-5 women in his harem is enough.
Haha, this is gold.
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On December 23 2012 10:56 Mavvie wrote:
kcdc's comment got me thinking.
How many infestors should I make in the lategame? I always stop at 8-12, but in games where everyone whines about it being imba there's upwards of 50 lol. Is it actually a good idea to have ~10 broodlords and 40 infestors? Or would 50 broodlords be better? These numbers are exaggeration of course, but the general question:
Should I have >10 broods and 8-12 infestors, or
Should I have ~10 broods and >20 infestors?
If your soul isn't dying when trying to get to this composition, you would always prefer the second option, with good control 20+ infestors are amazing against everything. Broodlords just add damage and force the enemy to deal with annoying broodlings.
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hey say you press 4 to target all ur hatcheries right. then S for larva, and then z for a bunch of zerglings and u decide to shift 1 the zerglings into ur main army right? ok and then i press 4 again so it clears the zerglings and then i make overlords and for some reason they are part of my army when i press 1? i never shift 1d the overlords. how do i do this so they arent part of my army
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it's because you're numbering the larva as well. De-select the larva with ctrl-shift-click (or ctrl-click the eggs) before numbering.
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is there any other way? that sounds like a pain in my ass honestly especially that its ctrl its so far away from my hand
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On December 23 2012 15:07 BlessedHammers wrote:
is there any other way? that sounds like a pain in my ass honestly especially that its ctrl its so far away from my hand
well you could just not hotkey larvaes / eggs at all too.
The easiest way is definitely to ctrl click the eggs before adding to the hotkey, practice it and it will come naturally after a while.
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ok cool thanks for help but after testing it in game you have to controll click the actual eggs in game and not the one in the lower screen display part. so i would have to go through each base to just controll click all eggs how clunky is this gotta be ? lol
and even then it doesnt add them to my main army. control clicking the eggs just resets it and makes them the new 1. so my old army would be bound to nothing
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You can control click the wireframes at the bottom...
Not sure how you tested that and got those results. Try again, I'm sure that you can control + click the eggs in the bottom part of the UI where it shows your selection.
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hey my bad your right. not making stuff up my mouse buttin is kinda of broken so it was giving me bad results. your right. thank you very much but at the same time it makes me wonder why blizzard didnt make it just so once you reselect you hatcheries again would clear it like it makes it seems it does. but this is very good now
1500 dollar gaming beast and still using this awful wirless piece of doo doo
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Everytime a protoss player wants to blindside me with fast DT's. He does, and I fall for it - and usually lose a base or TONS of workers. It's bad.
When I scout with my OL at 7 - I'll see a twilight council and think "Blink all-in". Obviously I'm making the wrong read here.
What are scouting methods to help me differentiate between blink-all ins and fast dt's?
(I'm Masters 800ish points)
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I think it's impossible to scout protoss well enough to know what their intentions are (until an overseer flies through and sees absolutely everything).
The best you can do is have a safe lair timing. Use the geyser timing in the natural to know the timings of his gateways, which should tell you that it's safe to go lair before speed.
Some hints could be:
- how aggressively he is trying to establish a pylon (blink all-in will move out from his base and can escort a probe, DT really wants a pylon established in advance)
- is he making stalkers out of the gateway (players doing blink builds get tunnel vision and only make stalkers)
- what was the timing of his +1 attack upgrade (line up with +2 for the twilight?)
- dark shrine takes longer than blink. If nothing happens when you think it should, start making detection.
but none of those are direct tells, just possible indicators.
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EPT
