|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On May 11 2012 11:57 Frunkis wrote:
In ZvP, how does 14 pool, 16 hatch work? When do you make lings/queen/overlord/drones and what do you do if a pylon goes up at your natural? Before I was doing 15 pool, 16 ovie, 20 hatch.
If they block your hatch, what I do is 16 overlord, 2 sets of lings, then queen, hatches asap.
|
On May 11 2012 12:26 Host- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 11:57 Frunkis wrote:
In ZvP, how does 14 pool, 16 hatch work? When do you make lings/queen/overlord/drones and what do you do if a pylon goes up at your natural? Before I was doing 15 pool, 16 ovie, 20 hatch. If they block your hatch, what I do is 16 overlord, 2 sets of lings, then queen, hatches asap.
No, I mean if you put down a 16 hatch and they put a pylon behind your mineral line.
|
On May 11 2012 12:06 Flonomenalz wrote:
@hyperion - that strat doesn't make sense at all. unless you're going muta, drop play will absolutely murder you unless your opponent flat out never scouts those bases, in which case you've won anyway.
antiga shipyard is terran favored. there's no ifs ands or buts about it. unless the terran severely screws up, if they take the middle with a siege line, and you're not 1.5-2 bases up and with hive tech, you should always lose.
Yeah.... When he was describing it to me I was kind of incredulous that a player of GM level was saying this, it seemed just so dumb that he was trolling.
The only time I could possibly see this working is if terran goes one of those 5-6 rax marine only timings and delays his tech really hard to hit the timing really fast. Then maybe since his medivac will be so slow then you could pull this off, but those marine timings are really easy to scout, so just make a round of stuff instead of drones, make banes to defend, and attack move his base with ling bane ezpz.
|
I need help. What do I do vs Mass Thor, Blue Flame Hellion with mass repair off 3 bases? (ironically this is what I always do when I play Terran)
|
On May 11 2012 12:36 Frunkis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 12:26 Host- wrote:On May 11 2012 11:57 Frunkis wrote:
In ZvP, how does 14 pool, 16 hatch work? When do you make lings/queen/overlord/drones and what do you do if a pylon goes up at your natural? Before I was doing 15 pool, 16 ovie, 20 hatch. If they block your hatch, what I do is 16 overlord, 2 sets of lings, then queen, hatches asap. No, I mean if you put down a 16 hatch and they put a pylon behind your mineral line.
You'll make a two pairs of lings anyways after the hatch. They should get there in time to stop a cannonsrush. Even if he blocks with pylons behind the minerals.
|
http://drop.sc/176786
ZvP Diamond Zerg
This game i played sloppy scouting wise, but early-game i didn't lost anything, except mining time from him denying my 2nd base. When toss doesn't expand i just go roach ling or roach hydra +spire around 8 min and see if he moves out, this time i forgot to send an overlord in. I was suspecting him to do some all in and he did.
I had a TON of roaches and lings and i thought that could hold all ins, i felt like his attack came really late. He had mostly stalkers and immortals. I'm pretty sure it was not because of my macro but my unit composition?
|
On May 11 2012 20:11 BlueKatz wrote:
I need help. What do I do vs Mass Thor, Blue Flame Hellion with mass repair off 3 bases? (ironically this is what I always do when I play Terran)
Mass roaches with upgrades sounds like a very reasonable composition, possibly (but not necessarily) with banelings (for repair and BFH) and zerglings (if you have minerals left). If it doesn't work, it's most likely a macro issue
|
On May 11 2012 21:03 Guamshin wrote:http://drop.sc/176786ZvP Diamond Zerg This game i played sloppy scouting wise, but early-game i didn't lost anything, except mining time from him denying my 2nd base. When toss doesn't expand i just go roach ling or roach hydra +spire around 8 min and see if he moves out, this time i forgot to send an overlord in. I was suspecting him to do some all in and he did. I had a TON of roaches and lings and i thought that could hold all ins, i felt like his attack came really late. He had mostly stalkers and immortals. I'm pretty sure it was not because of my macro but my unit composition?
Yes, it was 100% your macro. You need to focus on scouting more and making much more drones. 100% of the time below masters level the reason you lost is that you macro'd poorly and didn't make drones at the correct times.
Read Belial's ZvP thread front to back, there are many useful scout timings in there that you can incorporate into your play and thus be able to make more drones while ruling out different types of protoss allin.
Edit: To the guy asking about mass hellion thor, just make roach infestor purely and don't forget NP. If you steal half his thors you can often win the fight and still have half your roaches left. Generally playing against mech is like this: If he's making a lot of tanks, make less units and try to counter attack/deny expands while teching to brood. If he's making a lot of thors, just make infestors with neural and stomp his army.
|
Tx for some tips I beat it with a lot of roaches (guess I was freak out first 2 games).
However 1 thing still concern me: I hardly have enough money to get upgrades, especially when I find fast teching is very good at deny them getting 4th base so I don't have and don't want to spend too much on upgrade. Is it good idea delaying upgrades when seeing him go for Mech?
|
I'm generally really good with getting speedlings and then pulling my drones off gas.
My question is when do I put my drones back on gas?
For the record, I like to go ling/infestor.
|
In a ZvT where terran goes mech, the game lasted longer than 50 minutes and the opponent managed to get out like 15 ravens for seeker missiles, what can zerg do to combat that army?
Infestor Broodlord just gets tore apart by seeker missiles, neural parasiting the raven doesn't seem to be an option either as the range of seeker missiles is way larger than the NP range.
|
On May 12 2012 05:35 l46kok wrote:
In a ZvT where terran goes mech, the game lasted longer than 50 minutes and the opponent managed to get out like 15 ravens for seeker missiles, what can zerg do to combat that army?
Infestor Broodlord just gets tore apart by seeker missiles, neural parasiting the raven doesn't seem to be an option either as the range of seeker missiles is way larger than the NP range.
Seeker missile range is shorter than NP, but I agree it's hard to pull off. Better to use chain fungal and corrupers.
Mech is generally really hard to break, but slowpush with queens/spines/broodlord/infestor while dropping him with small drops to force him to pull back is the best tactic that I know of. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
|
On May 12 2012 04:29 Mattson wrote:
I'm generally really good with getting speedlings and then pulling my drones off gas.
My question is when do I put my drones back on gas?
For the record, I like to go ling/infestor.
Depends on the game and match-up entirely, but generally you want to saturate your main and natural first.
|
On May 12 2012 08:17 VoirDire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 04:29 Mattson wrote:
I'm generally really good with getting speedlings and then pulling my drones off gas.
My question is when do I put my drones back on gas?
For the record, I like to go ling/infestor. Depends on the game and match-up entirely, but generally you want to saturate your main and natural first.
I agree it's a game by game call for sure.
That said, if it helps you make a judgement call, crunching the numbers puts the minumum number of mineral drones on which you can support 1 geyser plus all your larva at 29.
my logic, for those interested :
+ Show Spoiler +Hatches generate 3 larva every 45 seconds; injects generate 4 larva every 45 seconds.
Two of each = 14 larva in 45 second.
45 * (4/3) = 60... so [14 * (4/3) = 18.666] larva per 60 seconds
the cheapest way to spend larva is drones (or lings) and overlords... 8 drones per overlord
so, 9 larva costs [(8 * 50) + 100 = 500] to use
...making the average cost per larva [500 / 9 = 55.555]
combining these, in one minute we need 55.555 minerals available for each of 18.666 larva
...ie, [55.555 * 18.666 = 1037.037] minerals per minute for larva
also, we need minerals to spend when we the gas we're minung. Geysers provide ~112 gas per minute
the cheapest we can spend gas is 1:1 minerals:gas, so we need ~112 additional minerals.
total mineral requirements: [1037.037 + ~112 = ~1150]
So, we need enough drones on minerals for an income of 1150/min. Drones mine ~40 minerals per minute.
ergo, we want at least [~1150 / ~40 = ~28.75 ]>>29 drones mining minerals to afford everything for sure
It may or may not be coincidence that pulling 3 drones off of 2 saturated mineral lines leaves 29 behind.
-jumai (yes, actually, I *have* thought I might be OCD once or twice)
|
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 08:55 jumai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 08:17 VoirDire wrote:On May 12 2012 04:29 Mattson wrote:
I'm generally really good with getting speedlings and then pulling my drones off gas.
My question is when do I put my drones back on gas?
For the record, I like to go ling/infestor. Depends on the game and match-up entirely, but generally you want to saturate your main and natural first. I agree it's a game by game call for sure. That said, if it helps you make a judgement call, crunching the numbers puts the minumum number of mineral drones on which you can support 1 geyser plus all your larva at 29. my logic, for those interested : + Show Spoiler +Hatches generate 3 larva every 45 seconds; injects generate 4 larva every 45 seconds.
Two of each = 14 larva in 45 second.
45 * (4/3) = 60... so [14 * (4/3) = 18.666] larva per 60 seconds
the cheapest way to spend larva is drones (or lings) and overlords... 8 drones per overlord
so, 9 larva costs [(8 * 50) + 100 = 500] to use
...making the average cost per larva [500 / 9 = 55.555]
combining these, in one minute we need 55.555 minerals available for each of 18.666 larva
...ie, [55.555 * 18.666 = 1037.037] minerals per minute for larva
also, we need minerals to spend when we the gas we're minung. Geysers provide ~112 gas per minute
the cheapest we can spend gas is 1:1 minerals:gas, so we need ~112 additional minerals.
total mineral requirements: [1037.037 + ~112 = ~1150]
So, we need enough drones on minerals for an income of 1150/min. Drones mine ~40 minerals per minute.
ergo, we want at least [~1150 / ~40 = ~28.75 ]>>29 drones mining minerals to afford everything for sure It may or may not be coincidence that pulling 3 drones off of 2 saturated mineral lines leaves 29 behind. -jumai (yes, actually, I *have* thought I might be OCD once or twice)
nice analytical aproach and aligns well with intuition
|
In all matchups, what is the general rule of gas timings? I have seen alot of different pros who take their gasses on different times, and i feel like the timing of taking a gas is all about how many drones you have on each base.
However i want to know for sure, is gas timings tech dependant or is it how i stated above?
Keep in mind that i'm talking standard play, hatch first, 3 base before gas, 14pool 14gas 20 hatchery.
Please no answers like: take it around 6:00 min, that only shows you don't know about it, be specific :D.
|
In zvp:
The reason for the 6:00 double gas (+1 gas at 7:00) when going stephano style is that it aligns perfectly for a 10:30 roach timing push with +1 and roach speed finishing at the same time.
The stephano timings are generally:
@100 gas Lair (ad 3rd gas)
@100 gas Metabolic boost.
@100 gas +1 Ranged attack.
@100% lair Glial Reconstitution.(roach speed).
If you're going for a 11 minute 200 max roach style, DRGs 3 gas at 6:30 is probably better.
zvt:
If he goes for a hellion start. You can delay your gasses until you are saturated in your main and natural. Queens and spines are enough against hellions in the beginning and speedlings can't do much. Vs 1 rax expand type openings I'm not sure what the theory is. I usually get my gas at 28 supply, but I'm not sure what's optimal.
zvz:
This is to erratic of a match up to give a specific time of when to take a gas. Sometimes you need to take an early 2nd gas to be able to afford enough roaches to hold an early attack, and sometimes when both players are expanding, you can sometimes take a 3rd base before adding more gasses.
|
Hello Fellow Zergs,
Does anyone have efficient way to deal with 6-7gate 2-3 immortal +1 push at 11 min.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325014
It is so retardadly strong.
I do however get like 75-78 drones vs his 45. This might be a reason for my losing.
Would you please tell how to deal with it when it comes.
All of a sudden you see 24+ stalkers with many sentries and immortals.
On maps like daybreak when they come they ff and the army evaporates so fast and if i try to wait for more units they go in.
|
On May 10 2012 10:30 hubschrauber wrote:Thank you so much for your reply! Is there a "magic number of spines" I can put up at each base to be able to defend cost-efficiently or deny drops all-together? Or is it better to defend with units in general? Sorry, if these questions sound a bit dumb, but I'm trying to get this right and not cheat my way out of it by going mutas for example like I used to and then not being able to defend if I don't have mutas. I appreciate your help, thanks!
Hey, I'm also high platinum and my zvt went from worst to best overnight buy building not spines but SPORES at each base. Maybe not at high levels but at our level people generally blindly cue drops and spores kill the medivac very quickly.
|
On May 13 2012 02:18 Lokerek wrote:Hello Fellow Zergs, Does anyone have efficient way to deal with 6-7gate 2-3 immortal +1 push at 11 min. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325014It is so retardadly strong. I do however get like 75-78 drones vs his 45. This might be a reason for my losing. Would you please tell how to deal with it when it comes. All of a sudden you see 24+ stalkers with many sentries and immortals. On maps like daybreak when they come they ff and the army evaporates so fast and if i try to wait for more units they go in.
Mega roach is safe against any protoss ground attack. If protoss haven't taken his third, there's no need to build more than 60 workers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
